Project: Retrogaming joystick for the masses

[eXeler0]

Originally Posted by Swevicus

Falter in what way?

Originally Posted by Swevicus

I'm kind of struggling to get the bloody joystick to fit in the design I envisioned (Seimitsu LS-32-01-SC) - none of the CAD designs I've done are to an ideal liking (or my sense of scale sucks) - I'm trying to keep the dimensions in line with a TAC 2 or Powerplay Cruiser. (in the 7th Doctor's voice) I think I may have miscalculated.

Update: I've made a big mistake. I've bought the wrong joysticks (LS-32 is too big - I need an LS-33 or LS-5x series).

TAC2 is a pretty small joystick IMO (I have 7 of those or something like that ;-). I think you can stretch the dimensions a bit.

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[Swevicus]

OK... I will make the controller's shell a little bit larger to accommodate the LS-32 (I'd take that over a JLF any day), but now I've created another problem: by dissecting the joystick's circuitry (a crappy Cheetah 125+), I've also removed the autofire circuit (without damaging it)... and I have no idea how the hell I am going to rewire it correctly when building the prototype controller.

[eXeler0]

Originally Posted by Swevicus

OK... I will make the controller's shell a little bit larger to accommodate the LS-32 (I'd take that over a JLF any day), but now I've created another problem: by dissecting the joystick's circuitry (a crappy Cheetah 125+), I've also removed the autofire circuit (without damaging it)... and I have no idea how the hell I am going to rewire it correctly when building the prototype controller.

When I take apart stuff I sometimes rig a camera and film the whole procedure. Simply play reverse to see how to put it together :-)
Or at least take pics often.

In any case, schematics wouldn't hurt and also ace user Daedelus seems to have offered his help with any questions you might have.

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[Daedalus]

There are two main types of autofire circuit, and both are simple to add or re-integrate into a design. The first type is usually just two transistors, a couple of resistors and capacitors, and is powered by the pull-up current from the joystick port so sits between the fire button and the fire input (pin 6). The switch in this case bypasses the circuit to disable it, and the circuit is only active when the fire button is held down.

The second type uses a 555 or similar chip to create a square wave output which is in parallel to the fire button, and so operates whenever the switch is turned on. The switch in this case usually turns on +5V power to the circuit from pin 7, which makes it easy to distinguish from the first one, which doesn't need the +5V supply.

There are variations on both designs but they'll generally fall into one of those types.

[Swevicus]

Here are images of the front and rear of the autofire circuit - perhaps you could help me identify which type of circuit it is... please.

Front


Rear


Not pictured are two additional wires that were attached to the circuit - one orange and one blue (which broke in half but I can fuse together with solder).

[Daedalus]

That looks to be the first type - it doesn't require a +5V supply, and is simply wired in series with the fire button. I could be wrong though - see if the switch connects the fire buttons to pin 6 when closed, and when open it's not connected except through the circuit. It's hard to see since I can't see all the traces - partially due to the dark and partially because some are under the switch. So the best thing to do is check them out with a multimeter to see for sure what goes where.

Anyway, it would be simple to add to your new stick with minimal modifications.

[Swevicus]

Yes, you're right. I'll work on it when I get the case built - and I'll put up a better quality image tomorrow.

[idrougge]

Originally Posted by Swevicus

Falter in what way?

The difficult part in making a joystick is not sourcing the parts, it's making a shell to hold the parts which is both ergnomical, has sane production costs and can handle the beating.

[Swevicus]

Which I why I spent 2 years designing the shell (I'm on my 46th - and hopefully final - design) - for ergonomics and durability/reliability, I'm looking at either wood, plastic (not cheap crap, durable Glock-like polymers), fibreglass or metal (has to be easy to machine, like aluminium).

The (hopefully) final design is below. Dimensions: 145 mm (length) * 112 mm (width) * 45 mm (height). Also included are better-quality shots of the front and rear views of the autofire circuit.

Controller Shell


Autofire Circuit (Front)


Autofire Circuit (Rear)

[jezry]

I kind of like this idea but if that shell took two years?
It looks like the one i drew fast one night for my kids and printed for them

[Swevicus]

Two years and 45 redesigns (it's been an on/off project - work and Japanese studies have gotten in the way - and I'm determined to build at least one working prototype for the world to see before taking it to the next step).

Update: I've worked out which terminal on the bloody autofire circuit corresponds to which pin on the joystick cable - ground on the left and fire button on the right... and they seem to work in Windows 10's USB game controller manager (I connected the bare cable to my Atari-to-USB dual-port adaptor and tested the AF circuit that way - when AF is off, nothing happens, when AF is on, the button registers).

[jezry]

I like the one that looks like tac 2 it looks nice and comfortable. Hope all works and we get to se a working prototype soon.

[Swevicus]

Thank you I'll do my best.

[eXeler0]

Size wise, and ergonomically, I always thought the Wico sticks (Bathandle etc) were just right.
Did you consider a bit more beveled edges? Sharp edges work fine on large Arcade sticks but on TAC2 sized units, not so sure it's gonna feel comfortable?


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[Swevicus]

I'll round them out, don't worry.

[Swevicus]

Question: Who would prefer a handheld-type joystick (TAC 2, Zipstik, Powerplay Cruiser, Competition Pro), and who would prefer a tabletop-style joystick (Albatros, Aneroussis Pac-Man)? Here are some mock-ups below:

Tabletop Joystick


Handheld Joystick

[wanderer]

I'm always for tabletop, they are more comfortable (at least for me, obviously).

[Swevicus]

1:0 for tabletop I'll be keeping score over the next day or two - by mid-week, I'll round them up and see who wins.

[idrougge]

Is that table top model one-button? It seems difficult to use in two button mode.

[Swevicus]

One button, yes - the second button would be positioned at the front of the unit at a 90-degree angle (similar to my original design for the 2-button "Atari"-style controller on Page 2). Failing that, I could just replace the ball-top handle with a trigger joystick for the 2-button version (trigger and top fire button = B1, buttons on the sides = B2).