20 August 2015, 12:16 | #261 | ||||
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DIM a() Quote:
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D. |
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20 August 2015, 12:31 | #262 | ||
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I guess most modern BASICs support "+" for concatenation as it would ease porting from Visual BASIC? Quote:
BASIC use of comma/semicolon I don't think of as a hack - they are statement specific formatting specifiers. Like those of print using. Edit: How about A:=(B=5) or A=(B==5) ? Last edited by Megol; 20 August 2015 at 12:48. |
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20 August 2015, 12:39 | #263 | ||||
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It is a fault of the language, because the language chooses to do it, whereas it could just as easily do it some other way, as most modern languages do (either use == for comparison or := for assignment (or Lisp style: (Let A 5))) A few tweaks here and there and BASIC could become quite consistent and logical without becoming any more difficult. *which is also terrible |
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20 August 2015, 13:28 | #264 |
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Not sure who mentioned it, but a newline in a string in blitz, if I recall correctly is much the same as in c (ie. "/n")
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20 August 2015, 15:56 | #265 | |
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The early versions of it required line numbers, just like early BASICs. BUT (and this is important) one couldn't use them as a target of a GOTO/GOSUB - line numbers were only used for editing. |
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20 August 2015, 17:22 | #266 | |
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20 August 2015, 18:03 | #267 |
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I can't help but hearken back to AmigaVision and the massive potential that it had... (Especially compared with Visual Basic, etc.) I did some amazing stuff with that program & 16 mb's ram... What potential there was! Arexx was another favorite thing of mine, in a scripting program called T-Rexx Professional--the stuff that was possible to cobble together using the Arexx ports in various programs--to effect more or less "real-time" stuff (suitable for tape BetaMax recording) was amazing...! Even to this day with the amazing strides in hardware we've seen I'm not sure these programs really have any equals.
OK, sorry...didn't mean to wax nostalgic here...! |
20 August 2015, 19:57 | #268 | ||
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It will be multi-paradigm but especially Object Oriented (strongly typed, single-inheritance plus interfaces, like Java, but with dynamic despatch only for interfaces), and functional programming. In fact all functions are anonymous. Kind of a hybrid between D and BETA, with a context-free syntax. There will be inner functions/closures. Loops can be constructed using an anonymous function with tail recursion like so: Code:
( ()->() if (condition) { ... self(); }) (); After this discussion i've been thinking about possible alternative syntaxes. The syntax i have in mind is broadly C-like but with a context-free lexer it might be possible to define many other alternative syntaxes (syntices?). |
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20 August 2015, 20:40 | #269 | |
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(*) to the point that it feels like Apple created it by mistake. |
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20 August 2015, 20:42 | #270 |
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If I may ask: why anonymous functions? IMHO the only advantage of them is reduced typing with the significant disadvantage of making code very hard to read.
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20 August 2015, 20:47 | #271 | ||
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Also one design goal is that it should be easy to write a module directly in 68k asm. And there's always something wrong with already existing programming languages. Maybe that's why i've kept my own idea out of existence for the best part of a decade, best not ruin it now by actually making it. Strange though, that someone can mention that they are remaking Sinclair BASIC and no-one says they are re-inventing the wheel... i'm practically re-inventing the jet engine, by comparison. Quote:
You can, however, create a named reference to an anonymous function. If this seems like a pedantic distinction, it probably is. But it saves having two different syntices, like you have in C++11 and Java 8. Last edited by Mrs Beanbag; 20 August 2015 at 20:54. |
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21 August 2015, 03:50 | #272 |
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Any chance the last few pages of this thread can get moved?
People trying to out-clever each other while disregarding reality is both getting tedious, and completely off topic. Once again, basic these days isn't what it once was. A lot of the discussion is moot because its no longer the 80's/early 90's or earlier. This has been pointed out, and disregarded a few times already. |
21 August 2015, 08:40 | #273 |
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I quite like Basic (Amos and Blitz).
Want a new screen? Open Screen xxxxxxx Want an image to be loaded? LoadIFF xxxxxxx Want to show a Bob? Bob xxxxxxx Of course this is no "standard" Basic. And Assembler or C could/will be faster. But who cares? As long as I am satisfied with the finished product, there's no point in using Assembler or C or whatever. I like Basic because it gives you quick results. |
21 August 2015, 09:27 | #274 |
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I can say C is not an easy thing to master. You need years of studying and practicing to code well. You need to know math too. I think that's why most Amiga productions are coming from people that already know C, Assembly etc or using junk tools like backbone.
From what i have seen so far i am sure that C runs circles around Amos and other basics but it should be harder. It is quite versatile on what you can do with it. In fact you can do anything with C. |
21 August 2015, 10:36 | #275 | |
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I "like" AMOS too, i've said that before, for however terrible it is as a language, you can knock something up in it really quickly. We went off topic talking about whether BASIC is "simple and easy" and whether it makes sense to use it to teach programming in this day and age. Well let's put that to rest, i don't want to harsh Dunny's buzz since this is his bread and butter.
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But i don't think we have very much alternative for the novice on the Amiga, who expects to be able to make Amiga games of the sort they expect (as in, taking over all the graphics and sound - mind you, the novice who wants to open windows on the workbench screen is even more stuck since AMOS doesn't do it out of the box, although there are extensions for it). You either get AMOS (or Blitz) with all its bobs and sprites and screens and mod players, or you get some other general purpose language where you basically have to reinvent all those things or wrestle with someone else's source code. That's why my plan is to produce for my new language, a module that incorporates all the functionality of AMOS... well that's my plan, but i'm better at planning it than actually doing it. I've been in "analysis paralysis" for the best part of a decade already... |
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21 August 2015, 12:28 | #276 | |
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Just because there are languages that call themselves BASIC that are modern doesn't mean there is A modern BASIC, there are a huge amount of programming languages that shares very little with each other and the standard BASIC language! Is it trying to out-clever someone to point out this basic fact?!? |
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21 August 2015, 13:25 | #277 |
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That's what I wanted to say (between the lines...).
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22 August 2015, 03:25 | #278 | |||
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You can say what you want about BASIC, it might not be the best language, but if it is to be replaced, its replacement must be some other language that doesn't make the beginner feel stupid because he failed to write something the computer could very well have figured out itself, such as a statement terminator. Quote:
BASICs may have diverged from the primitive, non-structured language of the sixties, but even though they differ from each other, they tend to all offer the same basic additions only with different spelling. So what AMOS calls a "procedure" is called a "statement" in Blitz, but both support the same kind of structured programming. Quote:
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22 August 2015, 04:50 | #279 | |
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Once again, semantics. Same could be said for c and derivatives. Things evolve. Ironic that despite the above even you refer to "modern basics" in some posts ;-) |
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22 August 2015, 12:10 | #280 | |
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It's not my place to change their minds - they're not my target audience. It's my job to teach people to code. D. |
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