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Old 04 January 2017, 05:10   #61
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Bszili, I say this with the understanding that such a port would need to run at low detail and framerate to be playable at all, but would you ever consider looking into Doom CD32?

You've already got BSP out of the box of course. The single biggest problem to get it running at all on a stock CD32 is RAM constraints, though I personally could live with the same cutbacks that were in the SNES version (no floor or ceiling textures, no rendering enemies or rockets from multiple sides etc). To further save resources music could be replaced with CD audio I guess.

If you think you could do it, I'd be willing to put a least a little money into a bounty, and I'm pretty sure there'd be others who'd be willing to do the same.
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Old 04 January 2017, 08:39   #62
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Bszili, I say this with the understanding that such a port would need to run at low detail and framerate to be playable at all, but would you ever consider looking into Doom CD32?

You've already got BSP out of the box of course. The single biggest problem to get it running at all on a stock CD32 is RAM constraints, though I personally could live with the same cutbacks that were in the SNES version (no floor or ceiling textures, no rendering enemies or rockets from multiple sides etc). To further save resources music could be replaced with CD audio I guess.

If you think you could do it, I'd be willing to put a least a little money into a bounty, and I'm pretty sure there'd be others who'd be willing to do the same.
@earok Let the man finish his work on Wolfenstein first before throwing in new distractions, ey? :-)
Among other things, there are probably valuable lessons to be learned with that port first which would undoubtedly help with a stripped down Doom port.

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Old 04 January 2017, 09:11   #63
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Bszili, I say this with the understanding that such a port would need to run at low detail and framerate to be playable at all, but would you ever consider looking into Doom CD32?

You've already got BSP out of the box of course. The single biggest problem to get it running at all on a stock CD32 is RAM constraints, though I personally could live with the same cutbacks that were in the SNES version (no floor or ceiling textures, no rendering enemies or rockets from multiple sides etc). To further save resources music could be replaced with CD audio I guess.

If you think you could do it, I'd be willing to put a least a little money into a bounty, and I'm pretty sure there'd be others who'd be willing to do the same.
I'm pretty sure its not gonna be doable Earok, the lowest ram i could load it was 2mb+1mb fast ram, that's with no sound too, i had an evening trying to edit a wad small enough by taking out loading screens, textures etc and it still wasn't small enough to get in the 2mb and this was just leaving the first level just to see if i could.
The only way the SNES version got it in 2mb rom was it was the only official port that had a total rewrite and decompression on the fly thanks to the FX2 chip and as you say thats without half the textures and butchered levels!

I think some games ain't gonna happen, so prob best give up on that and hope Wolfenstein gets done instead.
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Old 05 January 2017, 17:45   #64
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Bszili, I say this with the understanding that such a port would need to run at low detail and framerate to be playable at all, but would you ever consider looking into Doom CD32?

You've already got BSP out of the box of course. The single biggest problem to get it running at all on a stock CD32 is RAM constraints, though I personally could live with the same cutbacks that were in the SNES version (no floor or ceiling textures, no rendering enemies or rockets from multiple sides etc). To further save resources music could be replaced with CD audio I guess.

If you think you could do it, I'd be willing to put a least a little money into a bounty, and I'm pretty sure there'd be others who'd be willing to do the same.
No, there's not enough RAM or processing power there. The SNES version was written from scratch and had extra memory and processor in the cartridge.
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Old 05 January 2017, 17:54   #65
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No, there's not enough RAM or processing power there. The SNES version was written from scratch and had extra memory and processor in the cartridge.
Indeed the question would change from "can you port Doom to CD32" to "how much do you need to rewrite and scale down Doom so it can run on CD32". ;-)

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Old 05 January 2017, 18:13   #66
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So even if the .wad was just 1 small room it wouldnt be possible?
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Old 05 January 2017, 18:23   #67
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So even if the .wad was just 1 small room it wouldnt be possible?
I got it down to around 2.2mb ish with one level, maybe if someone spend more time than it's worth it may be possible with compression you could get it down to 1.8mb ish what the free mem left would be.
Then it's only 1 level, no music, no sound, the best FPS whilst testing with Akiko support was 7fps and that's with 1mb fast ram!

Its one of those games that's either possible or not, and this is not, to butcher it to death just to get a single level is pretty pointless Imo.

Just buy a PS1 and play that version, that's what I did in 1995!
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Old 05 January 2017, 18:37   #68
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We have to be realistic, Doom was kind of slow even on low-end 486 machines. Expecting it to run on a stock A1200 or CD32 is just wishful thinking. I'm not saying somebody couldn't write a game that would kind of look and play like Doom, for example using the AB3D engine, but that's not something I'm very interested in.
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Old 05 January 2017, 20:58   #69
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---><8
Then it's only 1 level, no music, no sound, the best FPS whilst testing with Akiko support was 7fps and that's with 1mb fast ram!
How much of a difference did FastRAM do when Akiko was used for C2P?

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Just buy a PS1 and play that version, that's what I did in 1995!
I dont think anyone would want Doom on an unexpanded CD32 because they dont have anything more modern to play it on ;-)
To paraphrase JFK: "Lets port Doom to CD32 (and do that other thing) *not* beacuse it is *easy* but *because* it is *hard*" :-)
Ok, no.. I dont actually think we should.. I think making Wolfenstein run would be great enough. One of the reasons being to prove that the CD32 could have handled FPS games to some extent right at launch... for example having Wolfenstein as a launch title..
Maybe it would have kept some more ppl instead of having them leave for PC...

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Old 05 January 2017, 22:47   #70
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How much of a difference did FastRAM do when Akiko was used for C2P?

One of the reasons being to prove that the CD32 could have handled FPS games to some extent right at launch... for example having Wolfenstein as a launch title..
Maybe it would have kept some more ppl instead of having them leave for PC...

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Not sure about without fastram didn't test it with just chipram, at a guess prob 1-2fps extra.

Even if the CD32 had Wolfenstein 3D at launch, it would have been laughed upon at being a lot crapper than the 3DO, Jaguar and even Snes versions! The Amiga thrived on original games, it got a lot bad names through its crappy ports!
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Old 05 January 2017, 22:57   #71
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We have to be realistic, Doom was kind of slow even on low-end 486 machines. Expecting it to run on a stock A1200 or CD32 is just wishful thinking. I'm not saying somebody couldn't write a game that would kind of look and play like Doom, for example using the AB3D engine, but that's not something I'm very interested in.
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Old 05 January 2017, 23:35   #72
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Ah, good old Poom. I used to t.run this demo to my PC friends at the time that claimed Doom was impossible on Amiga.
Cant see what hardware this particular recirding is running on.
I had 030 +8MB FastRAM in mid 1994 already so I never tried all those Doom clones on unexpanded 1200s..

Again, we could argue that a fast Wolfenstein *port* maybe isnt possible on CD32.. but a Wolfenstein *rewrite in asm* probably would be.

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Old 05 January 2017, 23:43   #73
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Even if the CD32 had Wolfenstein 3D at launch, it would have been laughed upon at being a lot crapper than the 3DO, Jaguar and even Snes versions! The Amiga thrived on original games, it got a lot bad names through its crappy ports!
I think it would be a psychological thing that it at least possible to get FPS gaming on it. If not Wolfenstein then maybe an original and fun FPS exclusive to CD32.. Not saying it would have saved the CD32 ;-) But maybe it would have encouraged more devs to try..
As for 3do.. that thing was twice the price of a cd32. Atari Jags though were usually set up running Alien vs Predator wich of course looks much better than Wolf.
Anywy, however one twists and turns this, they all would have been slaughteredby the Playstation anyway. ;-)


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Old 06 January 2017, 00:52   #74
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The 3do was too expensive and no one wanted a jag. The cd32 was the machine of 93 in the U.K. And by early 94 was the dominant cd format. It had a massive 2 years over ps1 (Xmas 95 U.K.) easily enough time to build up a good user base.

I am really looking forward to a possibly playing wolf 3D on cd32. And hopefully can one day look at possibility of a cd32 version of doom with either 4mb/8mb fast (e.g. Playable via sx1 expansion)
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Old 06 January 2017, 08:56   #75
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Umm... Is this supposed to refute what I said, or I'm missing something?
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Old 06 January 2017, 10:32   #76
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Gloom was a cool game, Shame no stairs as far as I know or a total conversion might be possible.
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Old 06 January 2017, 12:14   #77
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What would be the best existing engine for a total conversion of Doom on Amiga?
I like Gloom but no stairs, never liked Alien Breed 3D 1 there was Fears but I remember it being sluggish could you decrease the screen size? I cant remeber.

There were other games I dont know if they work on standard CD32 - Brethless, Alien Breed 3D2, and others.

id still like to see what kind of speed a small .wad could play at as different sections of the same level could be split into .wads rather than try to split level one for example into a small wad split it over several small wads.

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Old 06 January 2017, 13:05   #78
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@Retro1234 I belive some kind of copper chunky screen is most realistic for unexpanded CD32.
As for the engine.. there were plenty of promising engines out there in the 90s but most of them never left the tech demo stage.. so if youre asking for best engine that supports modding then I think your options are very limited.
If you want Doom, then maybe rewritten AB3d engine would cover it from a technoogical viewpoint. But you already know how blocky and small the AB3D screen is on CD32 at playable framerates. Lets be optimistic and assume you can optimize it to run 50% faster.. Still not pretty and/or fast...

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Old 06 January 2017, 13:24   #79
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What would be the best existing engine for a total conversion of Doom on Amiga?
I like Gloom but no stairs, never liked Alien Breed 3D 1 there was Fears but I remember it being sluggish could you decrease the screen size? I cant remeber.

id still like to see what kind of speed a small .wad could play at as different sections of the same level could be split into .wads rather than try to split level one for example into a small wad split it over several small wads.
Fears was terrible, so slow even with a smaller window, i remember being excited because the game engine they showed a year earlier was a lot quicker, just goes to show when you add all the gubbings it soon slows down again, tech demos always impress, but its keeping the speed to make a playable game.

The PSX version of Doom used a smaller main wad and each level was made into a wad.
Still had more ram than the CD32 2mb+1mb, its that 1mb short again!
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Old 06 January 2017, 13:30   #80
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Yes I was disappointed with Fears I played Gloom alot with my friend and thought ok no Doom lets try Fears but it was so slow. I think Gloom could do a good total conversion of a doom like game but no stairs but apparently you can teleport maybe teleport from one step to another step to another etc to give impression of stairs.

Some of the recent mods that people have done for Gloom are very interesting.
Gloom realy was the Amiga Doom and a good game in its own right turn the gore on

But small wad on Doom might also give interesting reslults.
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