What Makes The Amiga CD32 The Best Amiga?

[DamienD]

Originally Posted by Konrad

Damien, you can always use TUDE or Degrader to bypass that problem.

Sure, but a little painful.

Originally Posted by Konrad

That said, back when I had one I missed the numeric keys and disliked the position of the arrow keys.

Oh yeah, forgot about that also

[Bruce Abbott]

Originally Posted by sokolovic

The save space provided CD32 to have Civilization, probably Dune. The Theme Park CD32 version is by far the worst of any Amiga version, it saves the stats but not the park design and takes ALL the the 1Kb NVRAM.

How hard would it be to upgrade the EEPROM to a larger size? Or piggyback extra chips on top, which can be selected with a switch (I have done that on other devices).

Oh, let's have a thouht for interplay who released a Castle 2 exclusive Amiga version for the CD32 without the possibility of saving at all without an extra floppy drive that wasn't ever released by commodore.

Next question, could a Gotek style addon be made that emulates a floppy drive and required bits of the cia chips?

If Commodore hadn't gone under I'm sure lots of 3rd party addons would have been produced for the CD32. It isn't too late to do it now. If only I could get my hands on a cheap CD32...

[FOL]

Originally Posted by Bruce Abbott

If only I could get my hands on a cheap CD32...

Good luck, every Amiga is sold for ripp off prices these days.

[Gilbert]

Originally Posted by Foebane

Oh, F off. When I saw Wolfenstein back in the day (1992, the height of my Amiga love) I saw it as a mild curiosity and inferior to stuff I'd seen in the PC shops like Wing Commander. I never liked the whole Wolfenstein angle in the first place, the game looked like stuff I'd seen on Amiga already, even if the Amiga was even more primitive (like Corporation) and it was severely lacking.

What I think you're talking about, Dreadnought, is DOOM, and to be honest, what you described much more aptly fits THAT milestone. My GOD, when I first saw DOOM on a friend's PC, I WAS FUCKING FLOORED. I decided, then and there, that I had to have the game as soon as I could, and the death of Commodore convinced me to go ahead and get a PC as soon as I could.

I can understand not everyone seeing that 3D games were the future before Doom - but don't forget it was pretty obvious from the arcades - all the best games were in 3D. Sega had Model 1, Model 2 etc. Not sure of the years but pretty much any racing game - you could see them going towards 3D with each new release. I first realized when I saw Zarch (Virus) on Archimedes back in 1987(?). I knew then sometime in the future you could do pretty much any game in 3D

I remember seeing Doom on a Friends PC and not being that amazed by it. I was genuinely more amazed by F-Zero when I first saw that. I think the gameplay in Doom was a little bit less fun if you were just playing casually at a friend's house- e.g. sometimes you couldn't find a key and you'd be wandering around an empty level for a while.

[Gilbert]

Originally Posted by FOL

Good luck, every Amiga is sold for ripp off prices these days.

I got my CD32 brand new in the box and there were loads back then! Must have been 12 years ago or so. I think it cost around £100. Commodore had a lot of stock that they never got on shelves. CD32 stuff got more expensive once people realized how great it is

[Gilbert]

Originally Posted by d4rk3lf

If you are interested in Akiko, here is some info from Gunnar from Apolo team.
http://www.apollo-core.com/knowledge...28256&z=ZrTXsF

I can't say he is right or wrong, because I am noob at hardware, but it' was an interesting read.. at least for me.

(p.s, let's avoid Vampire discussions, I gave link to Gilbert, only because Akiko).

Thanks for this. This guy rates Akiko higher than most do. An interesting read! It definitely sounds like you just call the chip and it does it's thing and puts the results in memory - so the CPU is free to do it's own things.

Originally Posted by Bruce Abbott

The way it works is the CPU writes 32 longwords worth of chunky pixels into it, then reads 32 longwords of bitplane data out. As far as I know there is no waiting for it do the conversion. The CPU has a bit of work to do copying from the chunky bitmap to Akiko and copying from Akiko to the bitplanes, but this is much less than the work required do the conversion with CPU instructions. IOW, it makes c2p viable on a stock CD32, when otherwise it would be much too slow.

However because Akiko is on the 7MHz chipRAM bus a faster CPU must slow down to access it. Some accelerator cards had unsophisticated ChipRAM bus interfaces that forced them wait for the whole time (or even longer if not synced to it) while others latched the write data so the CPU could continue processing while the ChipRAM bus write was in progress.

An interesting idea I have been thinking about is creating a c2p chip like Akiko but which runs on the CPU bus, perhaps even writing to ChipRAM automatically via DMA so the CPU only has to stuff it with chunky data. Or the ultimate, a full frame chunky bitmap in FastRAM which looks like an actual chunky screen to the CPU, coupled to ChipRAM via DMA for zero c2p overhead!

Ok so i understand this now. The CPU has to copy the results to chipram. But it sounds a lot faster with AKiko than without.

From that thread link above:

A CPU C2P routine does
1) LOAD of chunky data into the CPU,
2) 16 or so mathematical operations, /AND/OR/SHIFT...
3) STORE of planar data into chipmem for display.

A AKIKO C2P routine does
1) LOAD of chunky data into the CPU,
2) 1 WRITE and 1 READ to AKIKO
3) STORE of planar data into chipmem for display.

In a little more details, DoomAttack.040:

c2p_Akiko2: 48.6 PFS (SA_7376x12)
c2p_040: 48.6 FPS
c2p_Blitter: 11.5 FPS

Originally Posted by mcgeezer

What are you talking about, i’m not hating on any Amiga’s and i gave my answer in my response. Amiga was much more than a gaming platform, the CD32 is an A1200 with Cdrom drive and sub par 3d processing chip. It offered very little over and above what was already on the Amiga platform.

I was going to apologise but then you did hate on the CD32 by saying it has a sub par 3d processing chip! I feel a lot of A1200 owners do get insecure when the CD32 is nearby. They have to try to bring the CD32 down to A1200 level. Understandable though.

[Gilbert]

Originally Posted by Foebane

Gilbert, sit down, relax, and watch this entertaining documentary on why the CD32 is a shit console, from someone who knows:

[ Show youtube player ]

Believe me, almost everyone here at EAB agrees with him, too.

I was a holdout for a while because I thought the guy was bashing Amiga in general, but I've been assured by many that that's not the case.

Oh yeah I've watched that before and the Gamesack one. He would hate Amiga games even more though. He's mocking Amiga games more than the CD32. Americans don't understand games that don't run at 60fps or use one button.

One of my favourite ever reads was when the US National Arcade Team visited Sinclair User magazine in the 80s. Reading (as a Spectrum fan) what they had to say about Spectrum games was very funny "You actually play games that look like this??"

[Gilbert]

Originally Posted by sokolovic

A big step ahead ? The CD32 couldn't have a version of SWOS because there wasn't enough space to save the game.
Save space was a big problem on the CD32, probably the biggest. Even CDTV had a larger save space.

They used poor compression routines. There is enough space if you use good compression. Also if the CD32 had been successful there would have been some kind of add-on to give more space.

People picking on these minor issues rather than focusing on the CD32s massive advantages just help make the argument for it's superiority

[FOL]

Originally Posted by Gilbert

I got my CD32 brand new in the box and there were loads back then! Must have been 12 years ago or so. I think it cost around £100. Commodore had a lot of stock that they never got on shelves. CD32 stuff got more expensive once people realized how great it is

Ok, your getting more and more confusing with every post.
Yes we all bought stuff 12 years ago for pennies. We are talking about now.


People are screwing the retro market with the ripp off prices they are charging these days.


You must be new to the Amiga scene or something, as some of us are not simple newbs.

[Gilbert]

Originally Posted by FOL

Ok, your getting more and more confusing with every post.
Yes we all bought stuff 12 years ago for pennies. We are talking about now.

People are screwing the retro market with the ripp off prices they are charging these days.

You must be new to the Amiga scene or something, as some of us are not simple newbs.

I was just telling people about how cheap they were back then. People are too sensitive these days - they think everything is an insult. No one wanted a CD32 back then. But now they are massively in demand.

People who use the word "newb" are always a particular kind of person....

[FOL]

Originally Posted by Gilbert

I was just telling people about how cheap they were back then. People are too sensitive these days - they think everything is an insult. No one wanted a CD32 back then. But now they are massively in demand.

People who use the word "newb" are always a particular kind of person....

Lol. Please "particular kind of person"
You have been ranting on. The first Amiga I bought with my first job was a CD32. So that should tell you something. I also like the CDTV and A600. I still have them.

You seem to be sensitive to every post. Not everyone is going to agree with you. That's just life. If some one doesn't like the CD32, let them carry on. Won't change my opinion. People keep crying about Microcosm. I personally think it's a great game.

Remember theres proberly thousands of people, who don't bother with Internet forums. So they are not able to have a voice and say they liked it. Just because 100 people say they don't like something, that doesn't mean everybody. Plus it's only the last 5 year's, retro has taken off again and raised prices. Which sucks big time.

Sent from my I3113 using Tapatalk

[mcgeezer]

Originally Posted by Gilbert

I was going to apologise but then you did hate on the CD32 by saying it has a sub par 3d processing chip! I feel a lot of A1200 owners do get insecure when the CD32 is nearby. They have to try to bring the CD32 down to A1200 level. Understandable though.

The CD32 is not the best Amiga by a very long way. It's an A1200 masquerading as a games console - but I never said that's a bad thing and it certainly doesn't make me feel insecure. My previous prods have had direct support for CD32 so get off your fucking high horse about me dissing the CD32 because it's a load of letter bollocks.

I embrace all Amigas. The CD32 came too little, too late, with one hand up the arse of backward compatibility and the other grabbing the £200+ out of the hand of loyal Amigans hoping for something to whack the competition.

I don't need to Rabbit on about the CD32 and it's short comings, those are well documented by people who know the platform much better than I do.

There isn't anything that makes the CD32 the best Amiga. Don't believe me? Go and look at the sales figures. Still don't believe me, then I'll suspect you're Vascillious or..... the only Amiga you've had is a CD32.

[Predseda]

I smell some kind of trolling here.

[jotd]

CD32 is the best amiga console out there.

[Gilbert]

Originally Posted by FOL

Lol. Please "particular kind of person"
You have been ranting on. The first Amiga I bought with my first job was a CD32. So that should tell you something. I also like the CDTV and A600. I still have them.

You seem to be sensitive to every post. Not everyone is going to agree with you. That's just life. If some one doesn't like the CD32, let them carry on. Won't change my opinion. People keep crying about Microcosm. I personally think it's a great game.

Remember theres proberly thousands of people, who don't bother with Internet forums. So they are not able to have a voice and say they liked it. Just because 100 people say they don't like something, that doesn't mean everybody. Plus it's only the last 5 year's, retro has taken off again and raised prices. Which sucks big time.

Sent from my I3113 using Tapatalk

Arrogant superior people call other forums user newbs. Why else would anyone do it?

I just reply to people who have taken the trouble to answer things I have said. Discussion is allowed here. And non-nasty arguments are fun.

[Gilbert]

Originally Posted by mcgeezer

The CD32 is not the best Amiga by a very long way. It's an A1200 masquerading as a games console - but I never said that's a bad thing and it certainly doesn't make me feel insecure. My previous prods have had direct support for CD32 so get off your fucking high horse about me dissing the CD32 because it's a load of letter bollocks.

I embrace all Amigas. The CD32 came too little, too late, with one hand up the arse of backward compatibility and the other grabbing the £200+ out of the hand of loyal Amigans hoping for something to whack the competition.

I don't need to Rabbit on about the CD32 and it's short comings, those are well documented by people who know the platform much better than I do.

There isn't anything that makes the CD32 the best Amiga. Don't believe me? Go and look at the sales figures. Still don't believe me, then I'll suspect you're Vascillious or..... the only Amiga you've had is a CD32.

Hey you said it had an inferior graphics chip (or similar) - when it has one more graphics chip than the A1200

What about the CD32's streaming ability? No other Amiga has that. Other the course of a whole level you can swap out enemies and background graphics very easily. I get you like your creativity - but you could make a great game for the CD32

My first Amiga was an A500 in 1987. I loved it and still do but in absolute terms the CD32 is clearly better. The CD32 was selling very well until Commodore went under.

[Gilbert]

Originally Posted by jotd

CD32 is the best amiga console out there.

I agree! And the best Commodore console out there. C64GS is very primitive in comparison

[FOL]

Originally Posted by Gilbert

Arrogant superior people call other forums user newbs. Why else would anyone do it?

I just reply to people who have taken the trouble to answer things I have said. Discussion is allowed here. And non-nasty arguments are fun.

Your definition and my definition of "newb" are completely different.

You don't need to quote single posts. You can quote many in a single post.

As much as I love the CD32, you seem to be going over board. Picking at everything anyone says, even if it's positive about CD32.

Originally Posted by Gilbert

Hey you said it had an inferior graphics chip (or similar) - when it has one more graphics chip than the A1200

What about the CD32's streaming ability? No other Amiga has that. Other the course of a whole level you can swap out enemies and background graphics very easily. I get you like your creativity - but you could make a great game for the CD32

My first Amiga was an A500 in 1987. I loved it and still do but in absolute terms the CD32 is clearly better. The CD32 was selling very well until Commodore went under.

Just for the record. My A1200 can do everything my CD32 can do. I like the CD32 so much it even boots CD32 and works perfectly. One advantage is, it makes use of Fast Ram and Microcosm is much smoother.

[Gilbert]

Originally Posted by FOL

Your definition and my definition of "newb" are completely different.

You don't need to quote single posts. You can quote many in a single post.

As much as I love the CD32, you seem to be going over board. Picking at everything anyone says, even if it's positive about CD32.





Just for the record. My A1200 can do everything my CD32 can do. I like the CD32 so much it even boots CD32 and works perfectly. One advantage is, it makes use of Fast Ram and Microcosm is much smoother.

Sometimes I do multi quote but I don't do it for different people because if they reply they have to cut out the other people I replied to.

What is your definition of a newb then? Because my first Amiga was an A500 in 1987 and yours was a CD32....

That's an expanded A1200 you are talking about. When I expand my CD32 it will be the same. That's good you can make CD32 games now though. I want to see someone make a Xenon 3 equivalent. Also you did effectively make your A1200 into a CD32 - clearly you think it's the best Amiga too.

I didn't pick at what people said at all. I agreed with a lot of people. Your first post was calling me a newb and your next post used offensive words that would have got me into trouble form the mods if I had used them

[FOL]

Originally Posted by Gilbert

Sometimes I do multi quote but I don't do it for different people because if they reply they have to cut out the other people I replied to.

What is your definition of a newb then? Because my first Amiga was an A500 in 1987 and yours was a CD32....

That's an expanded A1200 you are talking about. When I expand my CD32 it will be the same. That's good you can make CD32 games now though. I want to see someone make a Xenon 3 equivalent. Also you did effectively make your A1200 into a CD32 - clearly you think it's the best Amiga too.

I didn't pick at what people said at all. I agreed with a lot of people. Your first post was calling me a newb and your next post used offensive words that would have got me into trouble form the mods if I had used them

Please re-read what I have posted. You have taken everything I have said and taken it out of context. Never called you a "newb" for starters and for seconders, where are these offensive words. Regarding, me using the word "newb", it was ment in the sense, we are not new to the Amiga. As some of your posts talk as if we know nothing about the Amiga.

You misread, I don't make CD32 games. I have configured my A1200 to runs exactly like a CD32.

You also misread my other posts. The CD32 was my first Amiga purchase when I got my first job. I got an A500 back in 1990 for Christmas, this was stolen and I had A600 as replacement.