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Old 30 November 2019, 03:05   #1
Nightshft
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Blizzard 1220 - ADD4 RAM PCMCIA friendly?

I have a Blizzard 1220/4 which runs quite well (020 at 28Mhz, 4MB of Ram, FPU).

Now I maybe have the opportunity to buy an "add4" Board which gives additional 4MB of Ram.
Does anybody know if it is PCMCIA friendly (I want to use a CF Card there for data transfer)?

If not: I "think" there is a disable jumper on the board. Did anybody successfully wire it to a disable switch?
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Old 01 December 2019, 17:58   #2
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Nope, it won't be PCMCIA friendly after that.
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Old 01 December 2019, 19:06   #3
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Just ordered it =P
Will try it out, probably hacking a switch if possible (because I dont want to turn the miggy around to de/activate it) and report.
Thanks for the info.

PS: What happens if you have 8MB Ram activated and try to use a pcmcia card? Can you safely test it?
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Old 01 December 2019, 23:12   #4
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Originally Posted by Nightshft View Post
I have a Blizzard 1220/4 which runs quite well (020 at 28Mhz, 4MB of Ram, FPU).

Now I maybe have the opportunity to buy an "add4" Board which gives additional 4MB of Ram.
Does anybody know if it is PCMCIA friendly (I want to use a CF Card there for data transfer)?

If not: I "think" there is a disable jumper on the board. Did anybody successfully wire it to a disable switch?
PCMCIA will work perfectly if you have roms 3.0 in the A1200
if you have roms 3.1 there is a patch that you can insert in the startup.sequence that make the PCMCIA work in roms 3.1
( such patch requires a reboot so I recommend use roms 3.0 in such Amiga1200)
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Old 02 December 2019, 00:21   #5
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Originally Posted by Misclegend View Post
PCMCIA will work perfectly if you have roms 3.0 in the A1200
if you have roms 3.1 there is a patch that you can insert in the startup.sequence that make the PCMCIA work in roms 3.1
( such patch requires a reboot so I recommend use roms 3.0 in such Amiga1200)

I tried an 8meg card with 3.0 ROMs and 3.1 with patches, etc. and got nothing but crashes/non-boots. If anyone else actually has PCMCIA working with 8meg RAM (excepting cards with 32-bit mem obviously) I'm interested in hearing about it.

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Originally Posted by Nightshft View Post
What happens if you have 8MB Ram activated and try to use a pcmcia card? Can you safely test it?
Didn't damage my machine to try it, just didn't work. (I was trying to get a Wifi card working - Ethernet or CF card adapter may have more success)



Hacking a 4/8meg switch to the jumpers totally worked for me though (just don't switch it when the machine is on )
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Old 02 December 2019, 00:33   #6
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Originally Posted by Marchie View Post
I tried an 8meg card with 3.0 ROMs and 3.1 with patches, etc. and got nothing but crashes/non-boots. If anyone else actually has PCMCIA working with 8meg RAM (excepting cards with 32-bit mem obviously) I'm interested in hearing about it.


I have a TRA1200 turboboard 020/28mhz + 8mb
PCMCIA works perfect here on roms 3.0, no patches needed

is very well known that roms 3.1 have a bug which prevents PCMCIA working if more than 4mb is installed
I'm surprised that few people know this
it seems that when a myth is repeated a thousand times it becomes true
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Old 02 December 2019, 00:54   #7
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Originally Posted by Misclegend View Post
I have a TRA1200 turboboard 020/28mhz + 8mb
PCMCIA works perfect here on roms 3.0, no patches needed

is very well known that roms 3.1 have a bug which prevents PCMCIA working if more than 4mb is installed
I'm surprised that few people know this
it seems that when a myth is repeated a thousand times it becomes true
I would also be interested to find out how I can get Kickstart 3.0 to work with 8mb of fastram and PCMCIA.

Like Marchie, I can't get it to work on mine.

Please can you let us know exactly what Kickstart 3.0 ROM version you have and also what memory address range the 8mb is allocated in - you can use Amiga Test Kit, or various other memory tools.
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Old 02 December 2019, 01:20   #8
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I would also be interested to find out how I can get Kickstart 3.0 to work with 8mb of fastram and PCMCIA.

Like Marchie, I can't get it to work on mine.

Please can you let us know exactly what Kickstart 3.0 ROM version you have and also what memory address range the 8mb is allocated in - you can use Amiga Test Kit, or various other memory tools.
The roms in my A1200 is the normal KIckstart 3.0 V 39.106
it is the only 3.0 version which exists ,there is no other one
I will try to make some sysinfo screenshots for you to check where the fast memory is located

btw

this is what I have: http://amiga.resource.cx/exp/tra1200

which ram card or turboboard have you got in your A1200?
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Old 02 December 2019, 10:28   #9
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Originally Posted by Misclegend View Post
The roms in my A1200 is the normal KIckstart 3.0 V 39.106
it is the only 3.0 version which exists ,there is no other one
I will try to make some sysinfo screenshots for you to check where the fast memory is located

btw

this is what I have: http://amiga.resource.cx/exp/tra1200

which ram card or turboboard have you got in your A1200?
Yes, I have Kickstart 3.0 (39.106) on my A1200 rev 2B too.

My memory card is a 'modern' A1208 board from Edu Arana - arananet.net:

https://www.arananet.net/pedidos/pro...tram-for-1200/



According to https://www.amigacoding.com/index.php/Amiga_memory_map the 8MB Fast Ram should be using the Zorro-II 24-bit address range:

200000-5FFFFF (First 4MB)
600000-9FFFFF (Second 4MB)

It is the second 4MB range that clashes with the PCMCIA (for memory card) address space.

I understand Kickstart 3.0 (39.106) doesn't have the check to disable PCMCIA memory. Since I don't use the PCMCIA slot for memory, only Compact Flas, in theory it should not conflict with the 600000-9FFFFF range. However, I'm finding that my A1200 still crashes/glitches when I put my A1208 in 8MB memory mode and use the CF in the PCMCIA slot.
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Old 02 December 2019, 20:08   #10
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Originally Posted by solarmon View Post
Yes, I have Kickstart 3.0 (39.106) on my A1200 rev 2B too.

My memory card is a 'modern' A1208 board from Edu Arana - arananet.net:

https://www.arananet.net/pedidos/pro...tram-for-1200/



According to https://www.amigacoding.com/index.php/Amiga_memory_map the 8MB Fast Ram should be using the Zorro-II 24-bit address range:

200000-5FFFFF (First 4MB)
600000-9FFFFF (Second 4MB)

It is the second 4MB range that clashes with the PCMCIA (for memory card) address space.

I understand Kickstart 3.0 (39.106) doesn't have the check to disable PCMCIA memory. Since I don't use the PCMCIA slot for memory, only Compact Flas, in theory it should not conflict with the 600000-9FFFFF range. However, I'm finding that my A1200 still crashes/glitches when I put my A1208 in 8MB memory mode and use the CF in the PCMCIA slot.
crashes and glitches ? that's really strange,
perhaps there is some incompatibility with ur compact flash adapter
try another different PCMCIA device ie a modem or a LAN and check if works

btw,

I checked where is located the fast ram memory in my tra1200 turboboard
in sysinfo say this:

start adress :$00200000
end adress :$009FFFFF
total size : 8.0mb
memory type : fast ram public kick24bitDMA

Last edited by Misclegend; 02 December 2019 at 20:13.
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Old 02 December 2019, 23:58   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Misclegend View Post
crashes and glitches ? that's really strange,
perhaps there is some incompatibility with ur compact flash adapter
try another different PCMCIA device ie a modem or a LAN and check if works

btw,

I checked where is located the fast ram memory in my tra1200 turboboard
in sysinfo say this:

start adress :$00200000
end adress :$009FFFFF
total size : 8.0mb
memory type : fast ram public kick24bitDMA
Thank you for the details.

The CF adapter itself should not be an issue, since it is just a passive adapter.

The various CF cards that do work, are working fine with compactflash.device and FAT95 drivers on my A1200 when in 4MB mode. It is only when in 8MB mode that there are stability issues.

What revision is your A1200? And what Workbench are you using with Kickstart 3.0? I've been using ClassicWB, but will to switch if required.

I'll have to do some more investigation and testing as I really do want to get this working on my A1200.
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Old 03 December 2019, 01:48   #12
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Thank you for the details.

The CF adapter itself should not be an issue, since it is just a passive adapter.

The various CF cards that do work, are working fine with compactflash.device and FAT95 drivers on my A1200 when in 4MB mode. It is only when in 8MB mode that there are stability issues.

What revision is your A1200? And what Workbench are you using with Kickstart 3.0? I've been using ClassicWB, but will to switch if required.

I'll have to do some more investigation and testing as I really do want to get this working on my A1200.
My A1200 motherboard is a 1D4 version
and I have installed OS3.9 including all 4 boing bags

please note also there is a myth that says that OS3.5 and OS3.9 requires roms 3.1 which is not true
They hacked the workbench.library which crash maliciously when Kick 3.0 is detected
this was a comercial move to sell rom3.1 kits in the era

you can install OS3.9 manually copying and replacing all files into respective dirs, then you must copy the workbench.library version 45.132 which comes with unnoficial boing bag 4, that's all, you will have OS3.9 working there

also you can try a clean install of workbench 3.0 or 3.1 using floppies and then installing the minimum PCMCIA drivers and software required to check if PCMCIA works
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Old 03 December 2019, 12:10   #13
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@Nightshift

Apologies for hijacking this thread!

@Misclegend

I don't think it is an OS issue. I think there is some hardware incompatibility with these 'modern' ram expansion boards. I haven't got a 'old' memory card to test and compare against.

Even when booting directly in to Amiga Test Kit from floppy, in 8MB mode with a known working CF card plugged in and performing a memory test on the 8MB range it shows an issue on the first round of checking:



This Amiga Test Kit memory check error only occurs when my ram expansion card is in 8MB mode and there is a CF card plugged in.

Please could you do the same test using Amiga Test Kit, from floppy (or ADF) and show that it is passing the first round of testing.
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Old 03 December 2019, 16:21   #14
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is very well known that roms 3.1 have a bug which prevents PCMCIA working if more than 4mb is installed
I'm surprised that few people know this
It's not a bug, it's designed and intended behaviour. It was a feature added to 3.1 because using the PCMCIA port with an 8MB fast RAM expansion in Zorro-II space would result in crashes. 3.1 will actively disable the PCMCIA slot when 8MB of Zorro-II fast RAM is installed to prevent this from happening.

Quote:
it seems that when a myth is repeated a thousand times it becomes true
You seem to be a fan of myths... But not sure what you're even talking about here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Misclegend View Post
please note also there is a myth that says that OS3.5 and OS3.9 requires roms 3.1 which is not true
Unless modified, it does.

Quote:
They hacked the workbench.library which crash maliciously when Kick 3.0 is detected
this was a comercial move to sell rom3.1 kits in the era
Regardless of the speculated intention, Workbench 3.9 uses components that were compiled to use a 68020 and Kickstart 3.1. There's nothing malicious about that, nor is it "hacked". OS 3.9 also required extra fast RAM and a CD-ROM drive. All of those requirements were a part of trying to entice Amiga users to upgrade their machines, since Amiga users are generally infamously reluctant to upgrade. This was hoped, in turn, to allow developers to release more advanced games and software by targeting a new minimum standard.

Quote:
you can install OS3.9 manually copying and replacing all files into respective dirs, then you must copy the workbench.library version 45.132 which comes with unnoficial boing bag 4, that's all, you will have OS3.9 working there
You talk about the official versions of Workbench being hacked as if it's a bad thing, yet talk about this hacked version as a good thing...

Anyway, having to work around not having 3.1 just so you can avoid rebooting with a replacement patched card.resource is moot in that case since you need to reboot to use OS 3.9 anyway. Adding additional modules doesn't add additional reboots, so the 3.1 ROM doesn't have that disadvantage when running 3.9.
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Old 03 December 2019, 18:56   #15
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I don't think it is an OS issue.
I take that back.

I tested a boot up with no startup-sequence and mounted CF0: successfully and was able to access the CF without any issues:



I also created a boot floppy with CFD and FAT95 drivers, and it is able to access the CF card without any issues:



So I'm not sure what in my ClassicWB setup is causing the incompatibility and how this relates to the memory check errors.

Last edited by solarmon; 03 December 2019 at 20:11.
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Old 03 December 2019, 23:58   #16
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I take that back.

I tested a boot up with no startup-sequence and mounted CF0: successfully and was able to access the CF without any issues:



I also created a boot floppy with CFD and FAT95 drivers, and it is able to access the CF card without any issues:



So I'm not sure what in my ClassicWB setup is causing the incompatibility and how this relates to the memory check errors.
good work!
now do a clean workbench install , 3.0 or 3.1 or OS3.9, there should be no problems,
fact is that PCMCIA here always worked fine ; I never need any patch
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Old 04 December 2019, 00:10   #17
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good work!
now do a clean workbench install , 3.0 or 3.1 or OS3.9, there should be no problems,
fact is that PCMCIA here always worked fine ; I never need any patch
Thing is, I like ClassicWB. So either I try to figure out what is causing the incompatibility, or I try test with, say, BestWB.

Stock Workbench, whatever the version, is just too..erm..stock, for me.
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Old 04 December 2019, 00:14   #18
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Regardless of the speculated intention, Workbench 3.9 uses components that were compiled to use a 68020 and Kickstart 3.1. There's nothing malicious about that, nor is it "hacked". OS 3.9 also required extra fast RAM and a CD-ROM drive. All of those requirements were a part of trying to entice Amiga users to upgrade their machines, since Amiga users are generally infamously reluctant to upgrade. This was hoped, in turn, to allow developers to release more advanced games and software by targeting a new minimum standard.

yes it was malicious because despite OS3.9 require fast ram + cdrom, the requirement of roms 3.1 is fake
the original workbench.library v44 crash maliciously when roms 3.0 are detected

thanks to the developers of boing bag 3 and 4 they removed such malicious check
here OS3.9 works perfect in my A1200 with roms 3.0
I do not need to sofkick rom 3.1 anymore , it doesn not need any reboot or anything like that
it boots on the fly

"Setpatch SKIPROMUPDATES" etc
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Old 04 December 2019, 00:27   #19
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yes it was malicious because despite OS3.9 require fast ram + cdrom, the requirement of roms 3.1 is fake
the original workbench.library v44 crash maliciously when roms 3.0 are detected
Are you sure it crashes? Because I'm not. I think it just fails to work. As I said, it's not malicious, it was trying to set a bar for more advanced software, as well as ensuring various updates and fixes were in place without having to reimplement them, like the IDE boot delay, the 8MB PCMCIA check, the graphics.library updates needed for RTG, etc.

Quote:
thanks to the developers of boing bag 3 and 4 they removed such malicious check
While I admire the BB 3&4 effort, it hasn't been without its own problems...

Quote:
here OS3.9 works perfect in my A1200 with roms 3.0
No, it doesn't. See below...

Quote:
I do not need to sofkick rom 3.1 anymore , it doesn not need any reboot or anything like that
it boots on the fly

"Setpatch SKIPROMUPDATES" etc
You're using a hacked version of Workbench and ignoring all the other ROM updates. So no, OS 3.9 is not working on 3.0. Some parts of it are, yes, but the OS as a whole is not.
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Old 04 December 2019, 02:54   #20
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@Nightshift
I don't think it is an OS issue. I think there is some hardware incompatibility with these 'modern' ram expansion boards. I haven't got a 'old' memory card to test and compare against.

My card is 'classic' era and it doesn't play nice with PCMCIA beyond 4meg.


Quote:
Originally Posted by solarmon View Post
Thing is, I like ClassicWB. So either I try to figure out what is causing the incompatibility, or I try test with, say, BestWB.

Stock Workbench, whatever the version, is just too..erm..stock, for me.

Interesting to think that ClassicWb may be creating unnecessary RAM/PCMCIA conflicts. It's just so convenient to keep copying a know-good WB install that I never thought to put a fresh WB on just to test the Wifi.


Being able to use the full 8 meg with WiFi PCMCIA cards makes a significant difference for too - pretty much every website in Ibrowse runs out of memory with only 4meg fast, which makes the Wifi card kind of useless for anything but FTP. (Ok, so FTP is probably the only thing you'd use WiFi for with an A1200 anyhow, but still, it's nice be able to post to forums such as these from classic hardware from time to time )
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