C64 tunes on the Amiga

stainy · 06 May 2002, 13:52

Anyone know of any decent, well any C64 tunes that made it over to the Amiga? I was trying to have a few to start the ball rolling

but I can`t think!.......

Drake1009 · 06 May 2002, 14:29

Weren't there plenty which had been ported over in one way or the other? I recall ripping a version of wizardry from a cractro for instance. Are there any special things in particular you were looking for?

Tim Janssen · 06 May 2002, 15:19

Yeah, like Drake I too know some cracktros which feature C64 chip-tunes. My favourite is a tune of Commando (courtesy Rob Hubbard) which is used in a cracktro of Global Gladiators.
Another one is The Last V8 (also courtesy Rob Hubbard) which is featured in a cracktro of Cannon Fodder.

What makes this thread interesting is the quality of a gametune on C64 and Amiga. Sure, the Amiga has better sound capabilities but some songs just sound better on C64.
Listen for example to Mr Heli on Amiga and compare it to its C64 counterpart. The C64 version by Maniacs of Noise rocks with its fast toe-tapping tunes. The Amiga tune is a let down and sounds more like an Argentinian Tango than a fast and exciting tune for a game.
This is also true for Switchblade 1: The ingame music sounds okay on Amiga but play the song on C64 Switchblade 1 and it sounds like it was written with a C64 in mind.

stainy · 06 May 2002, 15:44

Any Rob Hubbard tunes would be nice to get hold of...

I`ll get a list together, so how that goes

Carlos Ace · 06 May 2002, 16:12

Can somebody tell if there are some C64 music plugin, to play C64 music on a WebPage (like modplugin) ?

Ian · 06 May 2002, 16:15

Yes, I can't remember what it's called but if you goto the the Lemon64 site you can get it from there

Drake1009 · 06 May 2002, 17:10

That would probably be the sid plugin.

Another example would be Impossamole. I love this tune for the C64, when I tried the Amiga version of the same game I was like "No, they didn't do it that badly, this is a nightmare."

Tim Janssen · 07 May 2002, 09:30

I could not come up with a better example, Drake. The problem with Impossamole is that it appeared in the wrong era. For me, 1990 isn’t exactly known for its high-quality music. The Impossamole-song sounds like a Mc Hammer/Vanilla Ice potpourri and was already outdated when it was released. Also, remixing a classic song always results in an inferior tune.
Another example of a song which is great on C64 but so-so on Amiga is US Gold’s Crack Down. There is only one ingame-tune in the C64 version but its much better than all songs in Amiga Crack Down. The C64 SID-chip is capable of creating really atmospheric compostions.

I remember a PD compilation called ‘The A to Z of C64 tunes’ which appeared in 1991(!) on Amiga. It featured all those lovely old C64-tunes like Arkanoid and Monty on the Run. If you search the Aminet archive you might possibly find it on ADF.

Drake1009 · 07 May 2002, 15:02

Was Impossamole a remix when it was converted to the Amiga? Yes I know that there were monty on the run (Which Putzi managed to remix very nicely. Can be downloaded (I think) from remix.kwed.org), but it was like they deliberately did a horrible job of that one. If I had any skill in tracking and the ability to find the right instruments I'd recreate that song. Until now it's been 4 tries where timing has been horribly off or the instruments had been completely wrong.

Amiga1992 · 09 May 2002, 03:45

If you have the power, you could use SIDPlay on the Amiga

I use EaglePLayer to play any SID I feel like. Beats conversions!

A lot of the tunes converted to teh Amiga were real poop. NO sample could match the synth joy of theSIDchip

(unless they sampled the SID, of course, but they just wanted corny digital samples in there).

Best SID-like tunes on the Amiga are done with THX/AHX, IMO

Drake1009 · 09 May 2002, 08:43

Play sid on the Amiga would be demanding. I know it was enough to slow my 533 mhz pc to a crawl (and below)

Darkseid · 09 May 2002, 10:27

I use playsid on my emulated amiga with no probs, using the latest build of winuae and AIAB, my specs arnt that impressive

Athlon 1Ghz
512MB PC133 Mem
ECSKS75A Mobo
Radeon 7500
onboard sound

Nian · 10 May 2002, 01:29

I have never heard so much dribble. Sids do not take that much cpu power, perhaps if you were using a 486 you would have problems with sids or mods but anything newer and your fine. as for an amiga well honestly a bog a3640(040/25) for a shit amiga 4000 can play sids no trouple.

For the PC there is a sid plugin for the net and a sid plugin for winamp. It works pritty well but hey if your heavily into the music you can buy a sid sound card that can have anything upto 4 sid chips. its PCI I am pritty sure. Its got its own software and works quite well I hear.

The amiga has a sid library that allot of music players can use, most notable is Hippeplayer. Delitracker can also play sids rather well.

Anyway I do like sids but most music was better on the amiga.
Purely because they made it into a mod and reworked it.

gary · 10 May 2002, 02:32

>I have never heard so much dribble. Sids do not take that much cpu power, perhaps if you were using a 486 you would have
>problems with sids or mods but anything newer and your fine. as for an amiga well honestly a bog a3640(040/25) for a shit
> amiga 4000 can play sids no trouple.

An Amiga 500 MC68000 at 7.14 mhz with 512k of ram can play SIDs with CPU time to spare. There shouldn't be any problems with other Amigas

If you're using a PC then you'd probably be better off using Sidplay/Sidplug/etc. instead of using WinUAE to emulate Amiga's Paula sound chip which in turn is being used to emulate the Sid!

Ummm.. even the old 486 had a LOT of CPU power - don't write older machines off just because bloated and sluggish Micro$oft operating systems have trouble running on them - An old DOS version sidplay will play SIDs fine on a 486/386/286 - not sure about an 8086/8088.

Amiga1992 · 11 May 2002, 01:23

Quote:

Originally posted by gary

An Amiga 500 MC68000 at 7.14 mhz with 512k of ram can play SIDs with CPU time to spare. There shouldn't be any problems with other Amigas

I'm taking about the cycle-exact, more faithful SIDPlay, not teh cack PlaySID (which, yes, runs even onan A500). The cycle-exact emulator eats a lot of machinery, however Drake, I dunno about yoru PC, but my Pentium 133 ran the SIDPlay for Windows with the reSIDengine (more CPU intensive) without problems. However, SIDPlay 2 can clog up my P3-866 when I do a lot of other stuff...

How's that, emulating teh soundchip of an 8 bit computer can make an 866 MHz machine bent on its knees!

SIDPlay for Amiga needs an 060 or as PPC, cant remember.

Nian · 11 May 2002, 02:15

Well if a sid player kills an 800mhz cpu then its SHIT code. I mean, honestly. How can you even think its normal for a program to use that much cpu for emulating an OLD sound chip. Nope its hideous code.

Twistin'Ghost · 11 May 2002, 04:17

Quote:

Originally posted by Nian
Well if a sid player kills an 800mhz cpu then its SHIT code. I mean, honestly. How can you even think its normal for a program to use that much cpu for emulating an OLD sound chip. Nope its hideous code.

or running on top of a shit OS...

Amiga1992 · 11 May 2002, 19:53

It's a bit of the fault of "portability"... like MAME. It's slow because it's unoptimized, so it allows portability to other platforms. SIDPlay 2 runs fine on my 866 system, even if I open two instances of it and run a very intensive tune on both... But you have to admit the SID chip is a very complex beast, specially on the filter side. Since teh filters are analog they haev to be simuate, and I think they get problems there. Even the old SIDPlay would struggle with my Pentium 133...

Running on Windows also helps it to be cack

I think most of teh conversions of C64 tunes to teh Amiga were poop, because the "digitalization" busted them. Samples do NOT mean better music. The "reworking" means they replace teh synthetized sounds with samples, and it loses teh "feel" in the process. It is like if you were to remake a Piano tune, and you use a guitar sample instead. it will be crap. Why? Because the piece was intended for play on a piano. Same goes with teh SID. The original tunes were intended to be played on the SID chip, not with crap guitar samples.

Ask martin Galway why he never remade any of his SID tunes, and have a listen at most of these now popular SID remake MP3s... Those that do not use the original SID sounds have lost its essence.

Drake1009 · 12 May 2002, 00:30

I didn't know the SID chip had anything analog in it.

Amiga1992 · 12 May 2002, 04:55

The SID chip itself is digital, but the filters that work with it are of the analogue type. Thus, the C64 is a hybrid digital/analogue synthesizer. I don't think the oscilators are analogue, but the filters surely are.

If you have a C64 around and spare time, make a cable that will allow you to use the video port's AUDIO IN pin. Connect a guitar to it. Makea little program that would tweak teh filters. Now you can make wah-wah effects and other stuff on the guitar, using the C64s analogue filters! fab eh?

Some C64 freak friend of mine told me about this, he always uses this, and with a paddle controller, is like having a pedal

06 May 2002, 13:52	#1
stainy Zone Friend Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Concord, NC, USA Age: 52 Posts: 1,712	C64 tunes on the Amiga Anyone know of any decent, well any C64 tunes that made it over to the Amiga? I was trying to have a few to start the ball rolling but I can`t think!.......

06 May 2002, 15:19	#3
Tim Janssen Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Den Bosch / The Netherlands Age: 47 Posts: 1,271	Chiptunes Yeah, like Drake I too know some cracktros which feature C64 chip-tunes. My favourite is a tune of Commando (courtesy Rob Hubbard) which is used in a cracktro of Global Gladiators. Another one is The Last V8 (also courtesy Rob Hubbard) which is featured in a cracktro of Cannon Fodder. What makes this thread interesting is the quality of a gametune on C64 and Amiga. Sure, the Amiga has better sound capabilities but some songs just sound better on C64. Listen for example to Mr Heli on Amiga and compare it to its C64 counterpart. The C64 version by Maniacs of Noise rocks with its fast toe-tapping tunes. The Amiga tune is a let down and sounds more like an Argentinian Tango than a fast and exciting tune for a game. This is also true for Switchblade 1: The ingame music sounds okay on Amiga but play the song on C64 Switchblade 1 and it sounds like it was written with a C64 in mind.

06 May 2002, 15:44	#4
stainy Zone Friend Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Concord, NC, USA Age: 52 Posts: 1,712	Well.. Any Rob Hubbard tunes would be nice to get hold of... I`ll get a list together, so how that goes

06 May 2002, 16:12	#5
Carlos Ace Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Lusitania Posts: 455	C64 music plug in ... Can somebody tell if there are some C64 music plugin, to play C64 music on a WebPage (like modplugin) ?

07 May 2002, 09:30	#8
Tim Janssen Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Den Bosch / The Netherlands Age: 47 Posts: 1,271	Monty, SID and more I could not come up with a better example, Drake. The problem with Impossamole is that it appeared in the wrong era. For me, 1990 isn’t exactly known for its high-quality music. The Impossamole-song sounds like a Mc Hammer/Vanilla Ice potpourri and was already outdated when it was released. Also, remixing a classic song always results in an inferior tune. Another example of a song which is great on C64 but so-so on Amiga is US Gold’s Crack Down. There is only one ingame-tune in the C64 version but its much better than all songs in Amiga Crack Down. The C64 SID-chip is capable of creating really atmospheric compostions. I remember a PD compilation called ‘The A to Z of C64 tunes’ which appeared in 1991(!) on Amiga. It featured all those lovely old C64-tunes like Arkanoid and Monty on the Run. If you search the Aminet archive you might possibly find it on ADF.

06 May 2002, 14:29	#2
Drake1009 Registered User Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Denmark Posts: 2,284	Weren't there plenty which had been ported over in one way or the other? I recall ripping a version of wizardry from a cractro for instance. Are there any special things in particular you were looking for?

06 May 2002, 16:15	#6
Ian Global Moderator Join Date: May 2001 Location: Derby, UK Age: 46 Posts: 2,287	Yes, I can't remember what it's called but if you goto the the Lemon64 site you can get it from there

06 May 2002, 17:10	#7
Drake1009 Registered User Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Denmark Posts: 2,284	That would probably be the sid plugin. Another example would be Impossamole. I love this tune for the C64, when I tried the Amiga version of the same game I was like "No, they didn't do it that badly, this is a nightmare."

07 May 2002, 15:02	#9
Drake1009 Registered User Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Denmark Posts: 2,284	Was Impossamole a remix when it was converted to the Amiga? Yes I know that there were monty on the run (Which Putzi managed to remix very nicely. Can be downloaded (I think) from remix.kwed.org), but it was like they deliberately did a horrible job of that one. If I had any skill in tracking and the ability to find the right instruments I'd recreate that song. Until now it's been 4 tries where timing has been horribly off or the instruments had been completely wrong.

09 May 2002, 03:45	#10
Amiga1992 Registered User Join Date: May 2001 Location: ? Posts: 19,645	If you have the power, you could use SIDPlay on the Amiga I use EaglePLayer to play any SID I feel like. Beats conversions! A lot of the tunes converted to teh Amiga were real poop. NO sample could match the synth joy of theSIDchip (unless they sampled the SID, of course, but they just wanted corny digital samples in there). Best SID-like tunes on the Amiga are done with THX/AHX, IMO

09 May 2002, 08:43	#11
Drake1009 Registered User Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Denmark Posts: 2,284	Play sid on the Amiga would be demanding. I know it was enough to slow my 533 mhz pc to a crawl (and below)

09 May 2002, 10:27	#12
Darkseid Registered User Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: England Age: 54 Posts: 39	I use playsid on my emulated amiga with no probs, using the latest build of winuae and AIAB, my specs arnt that impressive Athlon 1Ghz 512MB PC133 Mem ECSKS75A Mobo Radeon 7500 onboard sound

10 May 2002, 01:29	#13
Nian Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Sol / Earth Posts: 45	Sids and amiga + pc. I have never heard so much dribble. Sids do not take that much cpu power, perhaps if you were using a 486 you would have problems with sids or mods but anything newer and your fine. as for an amiga well honestly a bog a3640(040/25) for a shit amiga 4000 can play sids no trouple. For the PC there is a sid plugin for the net and a sid plugin for winamp. It works pritty well but hey if your heavily into the music you can buy a sid sound card that can have anything upto 4 sid chips. its PCI I am pritty sure. Its got its own software and works quite well I hear. The amiga has a sid library that allot of music players can use, most notable is Hippeplayer. Delitracker can also play sids rather well. Anyway I do like sids but most music was better on the amiga. Purely because they made it into a mod and reworked it.

10 May 2002, 02:32	#14
gary Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Perth, Western Australia Age: 50 Posts: 283	>I have never heard so much dribble. Sids do not take that much cpu power, perhaps if you were using a 486 you would have >problems with sids or mods but anything newer and your fine. as for an amiga well honestly a bog a3640(040/25) for a shit > amiga 4000 can play sids no trouple. An Amiga 500 MC68000 at 7.14 mhz with 512k of ram can play SIDs with CPU time to spare. There shouldn't be any problems with other Amigas If you're using a PC then you'd probably be better off using Sidplay/Sidplug/etc. instead of using WinUAE to emulate Amiga's Paula sound chip which in turn is being used to emulate the Sid! Ummm.. even the old 486 had a LOT of CPU power - don't write older machines off just because bloated and sluggish Micro$oft operating systems have trouble running on them - An old DOS version sidplay will play SIDs fine on a 486/386/286 - not sure about an 8086/8088.

11 May 2002, 02:15	#16
Nian Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Sol / Earth Posts: 45	Nian Well if a sid player kills an 800mhz cpu then its SHIT code. I mean, honestly. How can you even think its normal for a program to use that much cpu for emulating an OLD sound chip. Nope its hideous code.

11 May 2002, 19:53	#18
Amiga1992 Registered User Join Date: May 2001 Location: ? Posts: 19,645	It's a bit of the fault of "portability"... like MAME. It's slow because it's unoptimized, so it allows portability to other platforms. SIDPlay 2 runs fine on my 866 system, even if I open two instances of it and run a very intensive tune on both... But you have to admit the SID chip is a very complex beast, specially on the filter side. Since teh filters are analog they haev to be simuate, and I think they get problems there. Even the old SIDPlay would struggle with my Pentium 133... Running on Windows also helps it to be cack I think most of teh conversions of C64 tunes to teh Amiga were poop, because the "digitalization" busted them. Samples do NOT mean better music. The "reworking" means they replace teh synthetized sounds with samples, and it loses teh "feel" in the process. It is like if you were to remake a Piano tune, and you use a guitar sample instead. it will be crap. Why? Because the piece was intended for play on a piano. Same goes with teh SID. The original tunes were intended to be played on the SID chip, not with crap guitar samples. Ask martin Galway why he never remade any of his SID tunes, and have a listen at most of these now popular SID remake MP3s... Those that do not use the original SID sounds have lost its essence.

12 May 2002, 00:30	#19
Drake1009 Registered User Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Denmark Posts: 2,284	I didn't know the SID chip had anything analog in it.

12 May 2002, 04:55	#20
Amiga1992 Registered User Join Date: May 2001 Location: ? Posts: 19,645	The SID chip itself is digital, but the filters that work with it are of the analogue type. Thus, the C64 is a hybrid digital/analogue synthesizer. I don't think the oscilators are analogue, but the filters surely are. If you have a C64 around and spare time, make a cable that will allow you to use the video port's AUDIO IN pin. Connect a guitar to it. Makea little program that would tweak teh filters. Now you can make wah-wah effects and other stuff on the guitar, using the C64s analogue filters! fab eh? Some C64 freak friend of mine told me about this, he always uses this, and with a paddle controller, is like having a pedal

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