New amiga games... A500 OCS/ECS or A1200 AGA ?

[Shatterhand]

Standard OCS/ECS 1mb ram. Even though I do have 2mb ram, I think you should aim for 1mb

Also, there are many genres that haven't been done properly on the ECS systems.... except by Mega Typhoon which is nice but too short and without music and buttfuck ugly - there's no good vertical arcade shmup on Amiga - something akin to stuff like Raiden or Truxton. And Mega Typhoon actually proves the Amiga could go for something more hectic than those games.

Also, beat'em ups. The amiga doesn't have one single *good* scrolling beat'em up on its entire library - and it could be done... something like Streets of Rage or Captain Commando. Or even something like Mighty Final Fight from NES.

A good turn-based RPG game, like Shining Force or Ogre Battle - even though this kind of stuff probably would be too much of work for a side-project, even for a pro like Dan.

[DanScott]

Originally Posted by Shatterhand

Standard OCS/ECS 1mb ram. Even though I do have 2mb ram, I think you should aim for 1mb

there's no good vertical arcade shmup on Amiga - something akin to stuff like Raiden or Truxton.

shhhhh!!

[Amigajay]

Originally Posted by DanScott

shhhhh!!

Oo oo subtle hint alert

[Retro-Nerd]

Actually Hybris and Battle Squadron shows a good arcade quality on the Amiga. So, a vertical shmup then? Then you should really go for AGA or you reach the limit very fast if you plan a fast shmup with tons of sprites/animations/enemies.

[eXeler0]

Originally Posted by Retro-Nerd

Actually Hybris and Battle Squadron shows a good arcade quality on the Amiga. So, a vertical shmup then? Then you should really go for AGA or you reach the limit very fast if you plan a fast shmup with tons of sprites/animations/enemies.

Probably not relevant in this particular case since the aim is one of the unexpanded "small Amigas" but it would be cool and just maybe a bit innovative if someone would do a vertical shmup using a simplified 3d engine / hybrid and use polygonal object instead o sprites to overcome the limits of sprite sizes and numbers..

[Amiga1992]

Originally Posted by Shatterhand

there's no good vertical arcade shmup on Amiga - something akin to stuff like Raiden or Truxton. And Mega Typhoon actually proves the Amiga could go for something more hectic than those games.

Mega Typhoon is a rather nice proof of concept, yes.
Actually I was playing Battle Squadron last night and found it to be quite well made! As far as vertical shmups go, it's a good one.

I had an idea for one but, alas, I can't code

[Amigajay]

Originally Posted by Akira

Mega Typhoon is a rather nice proof of concept, yes.
Actually I was playing Battle Squadron last night and found it to be quite well made! As far as vertical shmups go, it's a good one.

I had an idea for one but, alas, I can't code

We need an improved SEUCK! I did start making something on the updated one for PC...then i remembered it was for PC

[Amiga1992]

As all game makers, their output isn't really great unfortunately
There was this pretty awesome shmup maker on consoles though, both 2D and 3D versions.
Dezaemon:
http://www.hardcoregaming101.net/dezaemon/dezaemon.htm
An Amiga progarm like that would be pretty awesome.

[OldB0y]

Go for A1200 AGA. I would suggest the largest remaining user base of actual hardware is A1200 based. Additionally there are few games that really show off what AGA could do, whereas there are plenty for ECS.

[dlfrsilver]

Frenetic is an excellent vertical shmup on Amiga...... Core Design anyone lol ?

[ReadOnlyCat]

Originally Posted by DanScott

The A1200 is certainly capable of recreating almost 100% accurately nearly anything you would see on Genesis / SNES / Coin-Op, around the early 1990's. Especially if you design around the hardware constraints of the machine.

I think you are being a bit too optimistic. The most technically advanced games on MegaDrive / SNES (extra chips notwithstanding) are out of reach of an A1200 graphically: cannot have 64/256 colors per scanline with full dual playfield and an almost screenful of moving objects all at the same time. Both consoles can do it but there would need to be large reduction in graphical fidelity for the 1200 to achieve a graphically faithful result. Same for sound. These consoles are more powerful than we usually think.

[ReadOnlyCat]

Originally Posted by Akira

Mega Typhoon is a rather nice proof of concept, yes.
Actually I was playing Battle Squadron last night and found it to be quite well made! As far as vertical shmups go, it's a good one.

I had an idea for one but, alas, I can't code

You can code. Everyone with a functioning brain can.

You are not willing to put in the efforts necessary to learn it, that is not the same as really not being able to code.

Originally Posted by DanScott

shhhhh!!

Are you going to port Raiden or Truxton?
I am asking because they are both on my todo list.

Originally Posted by Cylon

A500 time is over, at least ten times. Make it A1200+, with a big plus. There have been plenty of games maxing out old/ecs chipset. it is time for more aga torture.

Originally Posted by Adrian Browne

Yeah, something that really shows what the a1200 is capable of. There are indeed many games that max out the a500- lotus turbo challenge 2- lionheart- shadow of the beast etc.

I am kinda becoming the king of back to back posting here but let me say that the potential of the OCS/ECS chipset had not been maxed yet, not even by the admittedly technically great games mentioned by Adrian.

Lotus II, as good as it is, has ample room to improve, something as crucial as its road drawing routine can be enormously sped up for example and I have not looked at the rest of the code yet but I am sure there are plenty of enhancement avenues.

Do not forget that these kittens were under heavy schedule pressure, that necessarily leads to shortcuts and omissions. You ain't seen nothing yet.

[Master484]

Frenetic is an excellent vertical shmup on Amiga...... Core Design anyone lol ?

Indeed, Frenetic is pretty good. Although maybe not the best vertical Amiga shmup there is, and frame rate and scrolling aren't so smooth as in games like Battle Squadron or Hybris, but still a good game.

The demo version of Frenetic was one of the first games I saw for the Amiga, and I was amazed by the furious action, big graphics and the action filled music.

The coverdisk demo that I had came with this Zero magazine:
http://amr.abime.net/issue_390_coverdisks

It's a quite interesting demo: it has a different title screen than what the actual full game had, and you're dropped straight into action to the second level (which has the brown alien graphics), with infinite lives, lots of enemies, a pumping soundtrack with threatening breathing sounds in the background and constant action. A good example of how to make a good demo of a shmup game, I was totally impressed by what I saw back then as a kid.

And on the actual topic of new Amiga games, I of course voted for A500...this is the Amiga that I had back then, I say: more games to it, and if you meet the limits, just push them more. Streets of Rage, Raiden, Darius Gaiden, surely all 100% possible on a stock A500.

[eXeler0]

Originally Posted by ReadOnlyCat

I am kinda becoming the king of back to back posting here but let me say that the potential of the OCS/ECS chipset had not been maxed yet, not even by the admittedly technically great games mentioned by Adrian.

Lotus II, as good as it is, has ample room to improve, something as crucial as its road drawing routine can be enormously sped up for example and I have not looked at the rest of the code yet but I am sure there are plenty of enhancement avenues.

Do not forget that these kittens were under heavy schedule pressure, that necessarily leads to shortcuts and omissions. You ain't seen nothing yet.

From a technical Point of view In sure a lot of stuff can be improved or tweaked further... but practically speaking - these were commercial projects and some really skilled people put a lot of man-hours into those projects.
To get a talented group to make something similar today will require something truly friggin special. :-)



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[DanScott]

Originally Posted by ReadOnlyCat

Are you going to port Raiden or Truxton?
I am asking because they are both on my todo list.

No but something along the lines of Truxton / Truxton 2... possibly the best coin-op shoot-em-ups ever made.. before the "bullet hell" craziness crept in...

[Leffmann]

I hope it will run on NTSC as well. The situation with screens and displays today is different than it was in the 90's, and the average Amiga user today has a flat-screen that only accepts a 60 Hz signal, and overlaying 50 Hz on that results in stuttering. I think it's worth considering.

[vulture]

I just checked truxton 2 on mame, well, I see nothing that an A1200 can't do (imho of course) or, for that matter, nothing an A500 couldn't do with a lower colour count for the foreground gfx (I suppose copper can do some magic for the backgrounds).

[ReadOnlyCat]

Originally Posted by DanScott

No but something along the lines of Truxton / Truxton 2... possibly the best coin-op shoot-em-ups ever made.. before the "bullet hell" craziness crept in...

Good, no need to modify my todo list then.
I am looking forward to playing your games!

Originally Posted by eXeler0

From a technical Point of view In sure a lot of stuff can be improved or tweaked further... but practically speaking - these were commercial projects and some really skilled people put a lot of man-hours into those projects.

Yes, and that is their downfall. Intense schedules and pressure reduce creativity and problem solving capabilities. Even though they were experts they were working in much less than ideal conditions which means they missed a lot of opportunities. Alas the video game industry is still operating under this counter productive model these days...

Kittens with experience, less pressure, time to think and smell the roses will come out with better ideas than the pros have been capable of and in less time.
That is just human nature. (Read "Drive" from Dan Pink (Wikipedia) for the detailed scientific explanation of how and why.)

Originally Posted by vulture

I just checked truxton 2 on mame, well, I see nothing that an A1200 can't do (imho of course) or, for that matter, nothing an A500 couldn't do with a lower colour count for the foreground gfx (I suppose copper can do some magic for the backgrounds).

There are sometimes a lot of things moving on screen with Truxton (1 & 2) and that could make it hard for a 1200 to keep up. Remember that the machine is not capable of refreshing a full 8 bitplanes screen in real time.

[dlfrsilver]

Originally Posted by ReadOnlyCat

Good, no need to modify my todo list then.
I am looking forward to playing your games!



Yes, and that is their downfall. Intense schedules and pressure reduce creativity and problem solving capabilities. Even though they were experts they were working in much less than ideal conditions which means they missed a lot of opportunities. Alas the video game industry is still operating under this counter productive model these days...

Kittens with experience, less pressure, time to think and smell the roses will come out with better ideas than the pros have been capable of and in less time.
That is just human nature. (Read "Drive" from Dan Pink (Wikipedia) for the detailed scientific explanation of how and why.)



There are sometimes a lot of things moving on screen with Truxton (1 & 2) and that could make it hard for a 1200 to keep up. Remember that the machine is not capable of refreshing a full 8 bitplanes screen in real time.

Alien Breed Tower Assault AGA use 8 bpl assets, and the whole game runs at full 50 FPS with no slowdowns and tons of sprites animated on screen + gigantic play surfaces.

It's doable, but it needs a very good programmer

[ReadOnlyCat]

Originally Posted by dlfrsilver

Alien Breed Tower Assault AGA use 8 bpl assets, and the whole game runs at full 50 FPS with no slowdowns and tons of sprites animated on screen + gigantic play surfaces.

It's doable, but it needs a very good programmer

The game is indeed really nice but it doesn't have that many objects moving on screen compared to Truxton 2. These occupy only a small fraction of the screen at all times. It gives the impression to be chock full of moving stuff but it isn't.
Truxton on the other hand often has way over 30% of the screen covered by just the player weapons especially with the blue laser one.

You need more than a good programmer to modify 50% of an 8 bpl screen on a 1200, you need additional hardware.