Why a new Amiga game in 2013? Your opinions.

[slaapliedje]

I just wanted to add to this discussion by saying that I somewhat recently bought Don't Starve on Steam (it's currently available for Linux, Mac, Windows) and when I first started playing it, I was thinking "This could/should be on the Amiga!" It just has that feel to it. The Amiga could easily handle it. Though world generation would probably take longer.

But it gave me the idea of perhaps asking some of the Indie developers (especially those that work on the Humble Bundle games, and especially on the ones that support Linux, as I think they'd be more inclined to 'fight for the little guy.')

What could be interesting is if someone created a cross-platform Amiga, Mac, Linux, Windows game and put it in the Humble Bundle They'd get money from their efforts and the beginnings of respect from peers and the Amiga community. Then once they have already created the engine for doing those four platforms, they could start doing more releases for all platforms.

From what I've seen from lurking around for a few years, is that the biggest negative for creating a new commercial game for the Amiga is that the community has shrunk and somewhat split.

This is due to several factors.
1) OCS/ECS vs AGA vs RTG? What do you program for? You would need to create something that would work well on all to get the most customers.

2) 680x0? I'd say optimize for the 020 as the lowest common denominator, just hoping you don't have anyone out there with less that hasn't upgraded for whatever reason.

3) Same thing as above for PPC. To get the largest target, you'd have to put in PPC optimizations at the most.

4) Distribution. Now days it's pretty much all digital. Which may make it difficult to get it to Amiga users. When people are asking for A500 games, do they have some sort of network card, or even hard drives?

5) Shrinking community due to hording... this is probably one of the biggest issues. Seems like we have about 1000 or so people in the world that are hording all the working hardware, either that or they're sitting forgotten in some attic or closet (like my Atari STs are at the moment! But I only have three of those!) I saw an old post earlier today where a guy said he had 3 4000Ts...that's just sick, and he should seek help The hording is understandable to an extent though, we don't want our precious Amigas to die, and spare parts are always welcome.

I think the best way really to revive the Amiga platform would/will have to be in the form of something like the FPGArcade, Natami (dead?), Tina, etc. Getting new hardware to replace the older stuff, especially if it can have modern improvements built into the bus, like faster speeds, etc. But then again you'd run into the earlier issues of which lowest denominator do you shoot for?

I would think the A1200 (stock with 020) would probably hit the widest market of Amiga users, wouldn't everyone else agree? (And no I'm not saying that because that's all I have. I have a really decked out A4000D, but it was a pricey adventure to get there...)

By the way... no, I haven't put any thought at all into this... (okay, you caught me, I was considering learning how to program, and I figured doing it on the Amiga would be awesome).

slaapliedje

[slaapliedje]

Ha, as if I didn't already type out a novel of a post....

Here's some extra awesome from Jay Miner's earlier child;

[ Show youtube player ]

If the Atari 8-bit still has people developing stuff for it, why not the Amiga?

slaapliedje

[frikilokooo]

I think the problem is the new game reaches the very high quality of the old games like Supefrog or Lionheart. I think many people would pay for new games of that quality but unfortunately the quality of new games is of public domain games.

[Marcuz]

Originally Posted by slaapliedje

I think the best way really to revive the Amiga platform would/will have to be in the form of something like the FPGArcade, Natami (dead?), Tina, etc. Getting new hardware to replace the older stuff, especially if it can have modern improvements built into the bus, like faster speeds, etc. But then again you'd run into the earlier issues of which lowest denominator do you shoot for?

I agree on your points there, but this one I'm not so sure: it looks the same as the comparison between high quality software (the one you get to enjoy to use, efficient, aestetically appealing) that was made when the Amiga was profitable by preofessional devs with the one made by amateurs and fans currently.
New hardware that aims to recall this or that aspect of a particular experience of use, that's gone; it doesn't really success in being creative, and it is often no more contemporary.
Maybe a weak (in respect to this reasoning) exception being that "Amiga 500 in a joystick".
And if nobody finds profitable to develop software for amiga now, imagine who finds profitable to design professional new hardware for mass production dedicated to compatibility to just that!

[daxb]

It depands on what the game developer wants (kind of game, money, no money, target on special hardware, a fun thing, own personal restrictions, ...). It may not fit with user wishes. My personal hardware target wish is AGA, 030+, 8MB+ (maybe 16MB), HD. I think the most users have at least such a config because it was default in mid `90. A good looking/sounding game is possible with this and creativity isn`t limited so much.

A stock A1200 is too limited (only 2MB chipram is a pain). If you make a game for A500 (maybe + 512kb Ram) it might be a good idea.

[ImmortalA1000]

Originally Posted by Marcuz

Would you define that love based on "what was like to play on Amiga in your youth" so nostalgic reasons or on other specificity that would makes Amiga of value now, for instance what TCD says above, or something else, like coding reasons, or versatility of the machine that could be exploited by a new game?

I started programming my Buck Rogers style texture mapped game for 2 reasons

1. I always wanted to make that game on the Amiga (which is why it was going to be free)
2. The Amiga is a really nice creative machine to use (regardless of CPU speed or megabytes of RAM)

I think of the Amiga the same way as my classic 1980s car, it is fun to use it and it's a very well engineered machine, the kind of engineering you just have to have respect for because of its design.

For me the Amiga was the ultimate implementation of what started as an idea in Jay Miner's head. A machine to control the CRT gun in your TV's tube and the tones generated by the TV speaker. The VCS was the most basic form of essentially the same goal and the A1000 was the ultimate implementation of that idea with technology PCs wouldn't have until the next decade in both cases

[ImmortalA1000]

Originally Posted by daxb

A stock A1200 is too limited......

You have to think of the 1200 as nothing more than a 256 colour version of an A500 and nothing more. The same way the C64DTV joystick is just a 256 colour version of a real C64.

You have to think about what to do in basically the same constraints. You could take Micromachines from the A500 and turn it into a Super Hires interlaced game and replace the flat 2D top down view by making all scenery and the course look 3D via some cunning isometric graphics that never overlap the actual track you must stay on to race etc. I was going to try doing something like that with F1 cars and Monaco style graphics as a single track demo game but graphics of that quality take forever to do haha

[turrican3]

i think a amiga comeback is always possible...
they will, i think, make an amiga compatible sort of ipad build by chinese...
it's what is sheduled for the moment....
this new amiga device if has success (and why not), could lead great games on amigaos... the amigaos on a light device could be a killer application : really fast, fastest boot ever. From this point they could make a cheap amiga like the old ones based on the ipad like, keyoard and motherboard in one case like the amiga classic + towered more powerfull amiga...
this is not impossible, many guys who knew the amiga will enjoy an amiga comeback and for the others it will be a brand new name.
if the ipad like has good quality and good price , the amiga is back, i'm sure of it... i think this is the goal...
wait and see... the last time i had news they had to adapt the amigaos for the ipad like, they had problem with something they didn't think about.
I think when they will solved the problem , you will know everything...
keep quiet, as said thargan end keep the faith...
they said we will continue if we don't loose money, the amigaone x1000 is always sold out then they surely didn't lost money, and if i remember well : they said they don't lost money.
the answer to why : because, i liked the the amiga cases, because the amigaos is just amazing, because the amiga is a computer legend, because like said leilo i love this computer...

amiga rules

[mrbob2]

What i would love to see is a simple game but polished.

Imagine APB, but takes advantage of the A1200 and 2mb, the ability to get out your car and turn it into a Grand theft auto clone BUT you are the police! Better thought out missions, going after criminals, solving cases and eventually capturing mr big.

The gfx stay the same, just add polish.

The closest i came to this was actually hill street blues but i found it very slow going.

[sian]

would love new amiga games and hardware

[turrican3]

Originally Posted by turrican3

i think a amiga comeback is always possible...
they will, i think, make an amiga compatible sort of ipad build by chinese...
it's what is sheduled for the moment....
this new amiga device if has success (and why not), could lead great games on amigaos... the amigaos on a light device could be a killer application : really fast, fastest boot ever. From this point they could make a cheap amiga like the old ones based on the ipad like, keyoard and motherboard in one case like the amiga classic + towered more powerfull amiga...
this is not impossible, many guys who knew the amiga will enjoy an amiga comeback and for the others it will be a brand new name.
if the ipad like has good quality and good price , the amiga is back, i'm sure of it... i think this is the goal...
wait and see... the last time i had news they had to adapt the amigaos for the ipad like, they had problem with something they didn't think about.
I think when they will solved the problem , you will know everything...
keep quiet, as said thargan end keep the faith...
they said we will continue if we don't loose money, the amigaone x1000 is always sold out then they surely didn't lost money, and if i remember well : they said they don't lost money.
the answer to why : because, i liked the the amiga cases, because the amigaos is just amazing, because the amiga is a computer legend, because like said leilo i love this computer...

amiga rules

sorry i read too fast the answer, i read : why a new amiga in 2013?

[Hewitson]

Originally Posted by TroelsDK

I would defo support any new game for a standard A500!

Games being made for A500 was ridiculous in 1993. Doing it 20 years later would be a silly waste of available resources, most people would have an 030 with AGA at the very least.

[prowler]

Originally Posted by Hewitson

Games being made for A500 was ridiculous in 1993. Doing it 20 years later would be a silly waste of available resources, most people would have an 030 with AGA at the very least.

I'm with TroelsDK on this.

I would willingly have parted with money to get Graham Humprey's recently released Downfall for the Amiga if it were not freeware.

Also, the uncluttered look of the OCS version is preferable to the AGA version, IMHO.

[slaapliedje]

I would definitely pay for a Daggerfall type game, which really should be doable on an Amiga.

slaapliedje

[Mendel]

Originally Posted by TCD

I think some developments for the other systems like Gunlord show that it's not impossible to revamp a classic genre and give people that love to play those something new

Now that you mention it, how come there isnt a kickstarter for a Gunlord Amiga port already? It would seem like such an obvious thing for what should be done to make the full circle for this awesome game.

[slaapliedje]

Hey, if someone is willing to dig up what has been said to be the worst video game of all time; A film company poised to search for 'worst video game ever' in Alamogordo - Alamogordo Daily News then why can't we try to resurrect support for one of the best computers of all time?

slaapliedje

[slaapliedje]

The OP did ask about money, but I agree, getting a boxed copy of a brand new game would be awesome.

If I were to design a game for the Amiga I'd keep it open source. Open Source doesn't always mean free as in beer though, so we (the project members) would be able to charge for it if we wanted to.

Granted I can't code worth a damn right now, but am wanting to learn. But for this discussion, let's assume that we're all together on a game that eventually we're going to release for 10 Euros.

We'd have to decide the features, what the game's objectives are, what sort of artistry we'd need (including sound, which is just auditory art), etc.

Then we'd have to decide if our goals are possible on a stock A500. Do we use that as the base, and then if someone happens to have an A1200 add an AGA mode that looks nicer? Or even forgetting graphics, but think about processor speed for AI, and larger maps, etc. A good example would be comparing the Ultimas and how each of them evolved over time.

Ultima 1; Had rather huge maps, one square being = to one food, dungeons and towns you could enter were all over, and it had (if I recall) four islands, and that's where the load screens were.

I didn't play Ultima2, but Ultima 3 had a full blown world where you just wandered (at least the Amiga version I just tested. I can't recall on the ol' 8-bit where I first played it)

Ultima 4; It was splint up into sectors where it would load when you went into the next one, but would cache the previous one (there was a cheat where you could flip the disk over, and it would load the sector it was supposed to, but the land would have random things on there, if you did it in the right spot (near Britain) you'd get a free boat!)

Ultima 5 was the same as Ultima 4, but Ultima 6 was a fully zoomed in map, down to the character level, so you didn't have single icon entrances for towns. It was massive. It was also the last Ultima to be released on the Amiga. This also managed to get ported to the C64, and by all accounts I've read about it, it was HORRIBLE. Disk swapping all the time, and they removed the triple crossbow!

Ultima 7 is thought of by most to be the best one, and it could have been done on an AGA Amiga quite easily. (in Fact NovaCoder is working on updating the Exult port for that very reason, hopefully it becomes playable, because I never beat that one and would LOVE to play it on the Amiga!)

But the point is as games have gotten more complex, they've needed more hardware. The problem of current games is that they've lost complexity (and fun) because they're all about how many dynamic lights can their engine handle, and how many levels of anti-aliasing one can achieve on pixels that the human eye can barely see.

I think that's why the 'Indie' game scene is taking off so much now, because older people are remembering how awesome games like Superfrog and Turrican were. Before this new group of games, the last really awesome 2D platform game I recall coming out was Rayman. Which is another excellent game that an A1200 could pull off smoothly, but I think an A500 would be really hard pressed to do so.

So even if a design team was formed, if there was a need for an OCS/ECS version of the game running on an 68000 with 512kb of RAM, there would certainly have to be sacrifices for it, which may or may not be worth it.

slaapliedje

[Lonewolf10]

Originally Posted by TCD

I rather took it as a 'philosophical' discussion as what would make you buy a new game. The C64, Neo Geo or Dreamcast are dead too, but there are commercial games released for them that use the hardware to the max. Those are made also because people love to make them, but they also aren't afraid to ask for some money for them.

I have paid around £20 for some of those Dreamcast games... Feet Of Fury, Psyvariar 2, Last Hope: Pink Bullets (it's a scrolling shoot'em up) among others.

I have no problems paying £10-£15 for brand new Amiga (or retro console) games, as long as they are made well, fun to play and contain a decent options screen (e.g. have a difficulty option that actually DOES alter the difficulty - theres no point of having an easy option if the game is still difficult/frustrating to play after switching the difficulty to easy!).
Good (or even great) graphics and sound would be a welcome bonus.

[slaapliedje]

Someone managed to port the Enhanced version of Another World for the Atari Jaguar. Did I want to buy it, even though I've already played it on the Genesis, Amiga, Atari ST, and the Enhanced on PC? YES! But did I want to pay 80bucks for it? Uhm, not so much. If it had been $15-$20, yes, I would have. And that's not even a new game, but it IS new for the platform. So in my mind, I'm actually shocked that there haven't been any new commercial games coming out for the Amiga.

slaapliedje

[Graham Humphrey]

Originally Posted by prowler

I'm with TroelsDK on this.

I would willingly have parted with money to get Graham Humprey's recently released Downfall for the Amiga if it were not freeware.

Also, the uncluttered look of the OCS version is preferable to the AGA version, IMHO.

Thank you for your kind words Prowler, they are appreciated I deliberately made the decision to make Downfall freely available complete with source code as I felt it might have more chance of inspiring people to pick it apart and start to learn how to code themselves, which I felt was more important at that stage (and personally I felt it was a bit too thin to charge for but I really appreciate your thoughts!).

As for the topic at hand, I agree that there's nothing wrong with writing games for a standard A500. If you're going to start saying "what's the point?" you may as well take that to its logical conclusion and only write stuff for the PC or mobile devices. Personally although I own an A1200 with an '040 in it I will generally target either an 1MB A500 or a stock A1200 for my games. Indeed my next project which I am working on will run from disk on an A500. Although of course all games will be hard drive installable and that's not to say enhanced versions/features won't happen for expanded machines.

I would love to see somebody release a proper boxed game for people to own. It would be really cool and it is something I will be looking into when I get to the appropriate stage with this project I think, if it's good enough. It's not really about making money (although a little beer money would be nice, of course, but nobody's going to make major amounts from this let's face it), just seeing it packaged up like an old commercial game that people can buy and collect is surely an awesome feeling. I've seen some of the physical products for the C64 and the work that has gone into them is staggering, they look so professional and they would not look out of place on a shelf full of games. I'd love to have an Amiga game released in this way. Obviously the game does have to be up to scratch too...