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Old 07 March 2016, 22:30   #301
turrican9
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Originally Posted by dlfrsilver View Post

The scrolling aspect i don't like in the turrican series on c64 is the way the scrolling is doing a sort of "push forward" when you jump up right.
This is actually something I was thinking about here the other day. Back in the day, when I had my original C64 and played the Turrican games alot I never made much of this. But then came the Amiga and my C64 was long forgotten. I now have all these machines again and noticed what you say here in the C64 version. This "push forward" when you jump up right. Good point there. It almost feels like you try to throw styrofoam in the air using alot of force when throwing and yet it will not travel very fast/respond to the power behind the throw or something.

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Old 07 March 2016, 22:44   #302
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Ah, this is a minimal effect in Turrican. Look at this silly pushing scrolling in Enchanted Land (on the Amiga too).

[ Show youtube player ]
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Old 07 March 2016, 23:02   #303
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Retro-Nerd View Post
Ah, this is a minimal effect in Turrican. Look at this silly pushing scrolling in Enchanted Land (on the Amiga too).

[ Show youtube player ]
What do you exactly mean by silly pushing scrolling ? I've looked at the video, but i don't see what you try to point, can you enlight us ?
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Old 07 March 2016, 23:10   #304
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I assume you've played it on real hardware too because the old Youtube clips are jerky and you can't see anything properly scrolling related. The game scrolls in portions to the right or is shoved to the right. Well, you can see in this video but it's better visible in 50Hz emulation or real hardware.
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Old 07 March 2016, 23:12   #305
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Originally Posted by Retro-Nerd View Post
Above average doesn't mean "sold well". btw: Erik Simon (Factor 5 too) blamed indeed the software piracy though i think it was mismanagement that finally led to the bankruptcy of Thalion. They were just talented nerds programming (mostly) good computer games, and no businessmen.

Erik Simon in a 2002 interview.
Clearly above average means that the sales figure were not excellent but good. This indicate they were expecting lower sales, and they were surprised that the amiga users (me included) have made the effort to buy such a game.

However, as Erik has stated, being a coder is one thing, making a game selling is another one.

Turrican coders were competent for making games, but incompetent to sell their AAA games.

Look, back in 1990 and 1991, in France, the advertisement was focused on 2 machines : the Amiga, and the c64. The Amiga was the top machine in France, but the c64 was dead since long.

Why have they tried to enforce on it is beyond stupidity. Instead of focusing on a country market and the best seller computers, they loosed their money and time on a computer inexistant here, and tons of money.

Turrican was praised everywhere on CPC, and they did not even capitalized on that.

To me, it's a business no-brainer.

It's like if loriciels had pushed their best game, Jim Power on CPC instead of pushing forward the amiga version in Germany.

However, thanks for hinting me on the Factor 5/Rainbow Arts mistakes, those are stacking up above the ones i already knew about them.

It's a true shame they were so incompetent to sell Turrican correctly, it's very very disappointing , as the game truely deserved a better fate.
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Old 07 March 2016, 23:14   #306
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In the case of Lionheart buyers reactions were so seen disappointing we could just cover our high development costs.
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Old 07 March 2016, 23:18   #307
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Yes, and it's exactly what happened. They just recovered their development costs since the game sold well enough
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Old 07 March 2016, 23:22   #308
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Are you trying to tease me? If you can't make an actual profit with a game, because it's covers barely the development costs, it's not a sucess but a fail. Thalion was in financial trouble long before Ambermoon (which sold well enough according to interviews) was completed. They bound too many resources on single games, for way too long.

But enough OT in this thread.

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Old 07 March 2016, 23:36   #309
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Originally Posted by Retro-Nerd View Post
Are you trying to tease me? If you can't make an actual profit with a game, because it's covers barely the development costs, it's not a sucess but a fail.
Lionheart sales have NOT been a failure. If it's what you think, you're wrong. Lionheart sales were good (thalion guys thought they would fail, and finally they didn't, they got the money, but not enough to stop the ship to sunk. Even if the game had sold tons, with what happened with Ambermoon, they never been able anyway to save Thalion.

Ambermoon was the source of the problem as pointed by Jurie Hornemann, the development took too long and Thalion ran out dry of money and pulled the plug.

Jurie had to fully recode all the tools they used for Ambermoon, Thalion for this very reason has lost 1 full year, because the tools were running on atari ST in 16 colors, and their plans needed the tools to be able to work in 32 colors. I pass on the ultra complicated 3D routines and all the tricks involved in Ambermoon. then he spent another 1 year to code the whole game.

Quote:
Thalion was in financial trouble long before Ambermoon (which sold well enough according to interviews) was completed. They bound too many resources on single games, for way too long.
I agree with you here : Ambermoon sold extremely well in Germany (Source : Erik)
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Old 07 March 2016, 23:39   #310
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From what i've read i would imagine your were an Thalion employee at that time.
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Old 07 March 2016, 23:41   #311
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Retro-Nerd View Post
From what i've read i would imagine your were an Thalion employee at that time.
I read all these informations on the german thalion website of Gerry.

The informations were given in interviews by Erik and Jurie.

And to be honest i was quite shocked by what i read.
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Old 07 March 2016, 23:46   #312
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I read the same infos and more in German magazines, but you interprete them differently. Check the game output from 1989 to 1993. Then you see their real problem. But stop this now. It's OT in this thread.
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Old 07 March 2016, 23:51   #313
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Ah, this is a minimal effect in Turrican. Look at this silly pushing scrolling in Enchanted Land (on the Amiga too).

[ Show youtube player ]
It does not look like what I described above:

Quote:
It almost feels like you try to throw styrofoam in the air using alot of force when throwing and yet it will not travel very fast/respond to the power behind the throw
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Old 07 March 2016, 23:54   #314
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Didn't said that. Only that is was an minimal effect, barely noticeable. Compared to other scrolling methods in games of capable hardware.
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Old 08 March 2016, 00:05   #315
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Originally Posted by Retro-Nerd View Post
Didn't said that. Only that is was an minimal effect, barely noticeable. Compared to other scrolling methods in games of capable hardware.
True, true.
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Old 08 March 2016, 09:09   #316
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Originally Posted by dlfrsilver View Post
the CPC was only used at 6% of its real potential during his commercial life.
Wow, seriously! Will it take another 30yrs to get 6% more out of it?
Maybe by the year 2500 the world might finally start seeing some decent CPC games that utilize the hardware fully
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Old 08 March 2016, 09:20   #317
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Wow, seriously! Will it take another 30yrs to get 6% more out of it?
Maybe by the year 2500 the world might finally start seeing some decent CPC games that utilize the hardware fully
You're exaggerating, I did the math, it's coming in 2486 already. 😆
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Old 08 March 2016, 09:26   #318
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Well by my criteria of what makes the best computer I'm going to go with Welsh and fastest professor. Fuck colours in going with 2. Dragon 32 clearly the best machine https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dragon_32/64
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Old 08 March 2016, 13:14   #319
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Originally Posted by dlfrsilver View Post
Turrican II use 32x32 tile blocks and scroll 8 pixels per 8 pixels. It's a pleasure to discover all the gigantic maps. I did them all with maptapper and they are the same size as the amiga version.

All the animations, sprites enemies, maps were retained in the CPC version.
I have not noted a single kind of sprites missing. You can have many sprites on screen, it never slows down.
You can only have many sprites on the screen without slowdown because
1) you don't use sprites, just character blocks. Not even softsprites, just remapped characters.
2) you don't scroll, just move at character block intervals
3) your game is already so slow that any further slowdown is unnecessary
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Old 08 March 2016, 13:20   #320
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Ok, ok.. Enough already!

I really do love Turrican/Turrican 2 on the Amiga. So much I seriously considered buying those rediculously overpriced eBay versions just to have the real box again.

But, the C64 versions are the only 'complete' versions. As in, they're the ones with the complete maps.

Saying the Amiga assets where more complete than the C64 ones is just false: excluding the excellent Amiga music, both games have the 95% the same levels (right down to the tile sizes), enemies and content.

Apart from the bits the C64 does have and the Amiga doesn't...

Two examples to show what I mean:
  • Turrican 1 Amiga cuts out an entire bossfight during the verticaly scrolling levels
  • Turrican 2 Amiga cuts out several bonus areas, notably during the waterfall level in world one
Right, that's that.. You can now carry on with the silly 8 bit arguments if you please
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