English Amiga Board


Go Back   English Amiga Board > Main > Retrogaming General Discussion

 
 
Thread Tools
Old 30 November 2017, 22:26   #1
Foebane
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Cardiff, UK
Age: 46
Posts: 1,601
Why is HAM so underrated?

I personally think it's awesome! Have Agnus display all 4096 colours with no CPU overheads, and with reasonable quality still images as well! It even looks better interlaced!

What I find baffling is how people say they hate HAM because it can't be used for games. Well, you have 32 out of 4096 colours on screen already, isn't that enough for you? No other platform has so many colours on screen at once, and here you have this amount with sprites and a copper, too! (imagine this conversation in 1985 and you'll see what I mean). It's still progress, but don't demand too much, it's not possible!

Besides, I think a HAM game is perfectly possible on Amiga. At best, you'd have to reduce the horizontal resolution to one/third to accommodate the RGB components of each pixel, and best to reduce the vertical resolution to one/third as well, just to make for square pixels. Then you could achieve all manner of cool results, with animation, but it would just look really lo-res and chunky. Heck, it would be better off if you tried it in HAM8 hi-res! Oh wait, some AGA demos do that already and they look frickin' awesome! "Tint" by The Black Lotus for a classic example that runs on an expanded A1200!

So don't say games aren't possible in HAM! This mode needs more love!
Foebane is offline  
Old 30 November 2017, 22:32   #2
s2325
Zone Friend

s2325's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Gargore
Age: 38
Posts: 17,789
There was thread about HAM used in games, like Journey To The Center Of The Earth.
s2325 is offline  
Old 30 November 2017, 22:48   #3
lilalurl
Global Moderator
lilalurl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: France
Age: 39
Posts: 2,942
Send a message via ICQ to lilalurl
Quote:
Originally Posted by s2325 View Post
There was thread about HAM used in games, like Journey To The Center Of The Earth.
http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=70527
older:
http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=5973
lilalurl is offline  
Old 30 November 2017, 23:30   #4
Galahad/FLT
Going nowhere

Galahad/FLT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 45
Posts: 7,126
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foebane View Post
I personally think it's awesome! Have Agnus display all 4096 colours with no CPU overheads, and with reasonable quality still images as well! It even looks better interlaced!

What I find baffling is how people say they hate HAM because it can't be used for games. Well, you have 32 out of 4096 colours on screen already, isn't that enough for you? No other platform has so many colours on screen at once, and here you have this amount with sprites and a copper, too! (imagine this conversation in 1985 and you'll see what I mean). It's still progress, but don't demand too much, it's not possible!

Besides, I think a HAM game is perfectly possible on Amiga. At best, you'd have to reduce the horizontal resolution to one/third to accommodate the RGB components of each pixel, and best to reduce the vertical resolution to one/third as well, just to make for square pixels. Then you could achieve all manner of cool results, with animation, but it would just look really lo-res and chunky. Heck, it would be better off if you tried it in HAM8 hi-res! Oh wait, some AGA demos do that already and they look frickin' awesome! "Tint" by The Black Lotus for a classic example that runs on an expanded A1200!

So don't say games aren't possible in HAM! This mode needs more love!
HAM mode is fine for static images, not so great for a fast action game, hence why all the big HAM mode announcements like Dynamite Debugger were quietly shelved when they realised that HAM mode had its limitations.

Also, 512k Amigas were the norm for quite a while, HAM images are quite large in size, around 76K for one HAM mode screen, which is precious memory on a 512k Amiga.
Galahad/FLT is offline  
Old 30 November 2017, 23:35   #5
Tsak
Registered User

Tsak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Athens
Posts: 430
Quote:
There was thread about HAM used in games, like Journey To The Center Of The Earth.
Or Time Gal!!!
http://pixelglass.org/TimeGal

FMV of this quality for OCS? Hell yeah! Kinda makes you wish Dragon's lair and Space Ace were made that way back in the days... But yes, only with cd and extra memory.
Tsak is offline  
Old 01 December 2017, 01:12   #6
Foebane
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Cardiff, UK
Age: 46
Posts: 1,601
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tsak View Post
Or Time Gal!!!
http://pixelglass.org/TimeGal

FMV of this quality for OCS? Hell yeah! Kinda makes you wish Dragon's lair and Space Ace were made that way back in the days... But yes, only with cd and extra memory.
I'd heard of Time Gal from an AVGN video for the Mega CD, had no idea it had been converted to Amiga!
Foebane is offline  
Old 01 December 2017, 01:13   #7
Foebane
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Cardiff, UK
Age: 46
Posts: 1,601
Quote:
Originally Posted by Galahad/FLT View Post
HAM mode is fine for static images
This says otherwise: [ Show youtube player ]

Look around, there are plenty of Amiga HAM demos.
Foebane is offline  
Old 01 December 2017, 01:28   #8
DamienD
Global Moderator

DamienD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: London / Sydney
Age: 42
Posts: 13,616
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foebane View Post
I'd heard of Time Gal from an AVGN video for the Mega CD, had no idea it had been converted to Amiga!


Have you been living under a rock or something? Time Gal - LaserDisc Anime gets a special Amiga release by ReImagine Games!
DamienD is online now  
Old 01 December 2017, 01:44   #9
Foebane
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Cardiff, UK
Age: 46
Posts: 1,601
DamienD, I honestly did not know about these games until recently, let alone this one! I'm pleased to see at least one 80s Anime laserdisc game for Amiga, in full HAM glory!
Foebane is offline  
Old 01 December 2017, 02:07   #10
Galahad/FLT
Going nowhere

Galahad/FLT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 45
Posts: 7,126
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foebane View Post
This says otherwise: [ Show youtube player ]

Look around, there are plenty of Amiga HAM demos.
Thats nice.

but you're not really comparing HAM mode on AGA Amigas when I clearly referenced A500's with 512k of ram are you?
Galahad/FLT is offline  
Old 01 December 2017, 07:06   #11
Foebane
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Cardiff, UK
Age: 46
Posts: 1,601
It shows what the hardware is capable of, given enough resources.

Even your modest spec allows games like Pioneer Plague, which is astounding in itself.
Foebane is offline  
Old 01 December 2017, 09:34   #12
britelite
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Espoo / Finland
Posts: 521
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foebane View Post
It shows what the hardware is capable of, given enough resources.
Yeah, it's capable of a 160x100ish resolution without crawling to a halt...
britelite is online now  
Old 01 December 2017, 09:42   #13
britelite
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Espoo / Finland
Posts: 521
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foebane View Post
So don't say games aren't possible in HAM! This mode needs more love!
If you want more HAM-games then start making HAM-games.
britelite is online now  
Old 01 December 2017, 13:09   #14
NorthWay
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Grimstad / Norway
Posts: 546
I always thought you could do a very nice pinball game in HAM. If most moving parts were hw sprite outlined you could hide the 3-pixels delta needed to get to the pixel value to the right of the sprite.
NorthWay is offline  
Old 02 December 2017, 01:44   #15
AmigaBill
Registered User

AmigaBill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: New York, USA
Posts: 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foebane View Post
I'd heard of Time Gal from an AVGN video for the Mega CD, had no idea it had been converted to Amiga!
Earock was nice enough to come on my stream and talk about his projects including TimeGal if you are interested in learning more about it. The TimeGal part is at 51:35 if you want to skip to it. https://www.twitch.tv/videos/205040344
AmigaBill is offline  
Old 02 December 2017, 13:25   #16
meynaf
son of 68k
meynaf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Lyon / France
Age: 46
Posts: 3,404
Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthWay View Post
I always thought you could do a very nice pinball game in HAM. If most moving parts were hw sprite outlined you could hide the 3-pixels delta needed to get to the pixel value to the right of the sprite.
Sprites are displayed on top of HAM screens without affecting HAM colors.
This means you don't even have to care about the right of the sprite.
meynaf is offline  
 


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
HAM conversion alpine9000 Coders. General 23 22 February 2019 00:16
Most underrated games? alkis21 Retrogaming General Discussion 244 27 October 2017 09:24
ham howto? billt Coders. General 11 04 July 2016 16:46
Your Top 5 Most Overrated/Underrated Games mr_a500 Retrogaming General Discussion 86 27 April 2015 16:08
Ham videos Zooup1972 support.Apps 17 19 April 2015 01:35

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 12:06.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Page generated in 0.08478 seconds with 13 queries