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Old 11 September 2009, 07:35   #1
illy5603
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Question from a dumb American.

Ok, so I have found an LG multisystem TV (27" Tube, 4:3, I am thinking perfect for playing PAL Amiga / CD32 stuff on!) and had a few really basic questions.

It has regular composite (RCA) input jacks and a SCART connector. Is RGB to SCART something common or are the diagrams floating around just homebrew projects? I imagine SCART/RGB > Composite RCA any day of the week right?

I don't know much about Multisystem TV sets (PAL/NTCS) do they auto adjust from the input signal or do you have to select the correct mode from a menu?

I am buying this thing for 50$ so it is a cheap experiment. It beats putting an Indivision AGA inside every single Amiga / CD32 I buy.
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Old 11 September 2009, 07:53   #2
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Ok I guess I answered my own question on ebay.co.uk there are a bunch of these (RGB / SCART + Stereo Sound). So, is the picture quality pretty good then? I imagine it would be!
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Old 11 September 2009, 11:32   #3
StevenJGore
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RGB to SCART is the best picture you'll get through a CRT TV.

Just make sure the TV can accept RGB inputs via SCART. Some can only accept video composite via SCART.

Steve.
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Old 11 September 2009, 17:26   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by illy5603 View Post
Ok I guess I answered my own question on ebay.co.uk there are a bunch of these (RGB / SCART + Stereo Sound). So, is the picture quality pretty good then? I imagine it would be!
It's better than S-video and is the best you can get for a CRT TV - RGB Scart is good for both 50/60hz signals
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Old 11 September 2009, 18:41   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StevenJGore View Post
RGB to SCART is the best picture you'll get through a CRT TV.

Just make sure the TV can accept RGB inputs via SCART. Some can only accept video composite via SCART.

Steve.
Got it! Thanks!
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Old 17 September 2009, 01:16   #6
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One more quick question for people that play their 1200's on PAL TV sets. Do you guys get a bit of flicker, especially noticeable on predominately white screens? Is this just a PAL thing? Could it be the cheap composite (yellow RCA) cable I was using for my test? I have an Amiga RGB / SCART cable coming in from Amigakit and hopefully that will produce better results.

Anyway, just curious. It wasn't horrible flicker like interlace flicker but it was a bit annoying.
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Old 17 September 2009, 01:24   #7
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Hi illy,

I can connect my A1200 to my PAL TV using three methods: RF ouput, Composite video to SCART and RGB to SCART.

The only difference I get is sharpness of picure. RGB monitor output is best, followed by Composite video and finally RF output.

The only flicker I have seen was due to a faulty Amiga PSU, and it was present on all three outputs.
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Old 17 September 2009, 01:31   #8
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Thanks Prowler,

The Amiga I was testing it on has a whole host of problems including bad caps and being way too modified to be game friendly. It is also NTSC native and I am booting it in to PAL mode with the mouse buttons.

I ordered a true PAL 1200 and CD32 from Amigakit this week so I am hoping those look better on the TV.
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Old 17 September 2009, 01:43   #9
PowerPie5000
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Quote:
Originally Posted by illy5603 View Post
One more quick question for people that play their 1200's on PAL TV sets. Do you guys get a bit of flicker, especially noticeable on predominately white screens? Is this just a PAL thing? Could it be the cheap composite (yellow RCA) cable I was using for my test? I have an Amiga RGB / SCART cable coming in from Amigakit and hopefully that will produce better results.

Anyway, just curious. It wasn't horrible flicker like interlace flicker but it was a bit annoying.
I don't get any flicker at all using a PAL TV in 50hz... but i prefer using 60hz PAL/NTSC signals with an RGB scart cable for many of my consoles. My TV can support upto 100hz but i don't think any console outputs that high? works great with my PC though

Anyway i think 50hz is best for the Amiga as i think there were only a tiny amount of games designed to run at 60hz.
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Old 17 September 2009, 02:37   #10
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A lot of games can be played in NTSC with WHDload, I usually prefure this as it fills more of the screen.
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Old 17 September 2009, 12:31   #11
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A lot of games can be played in NTSC with WHDload, I usually prefure this as it fills more of the screen.
Does it not make games run and sound a bit faster than they should be? I thought most amiga games were developed for PAL systems and were PAL optimised... or am i wrong??
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Old 17 September 2009, 18:43   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PowerPie5000 View Post
Does it not make games run and sound a bit faster than they should be? I thought most amiga games were developed for PAL systems and were PAL optimised... or am i wrong??
I think that when some games get the WHDLOAD treatment they fix that? Or are they just making NTSC versions of the games? I don't understand why a PAL version doesn't fill up an entire screen either but I will probably figure it out soon. :-)
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Old 17 September 2009, 19:10   #13
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Originally Posted by PowerPie5000 View Post
Does it not make games run and sound a bit faster than they should be? I thought most amiga games were developed for PAL systems and were PAL optimised... or am i wrong??
No your right - It can cause Fast Audio - I dont mind a bit of speedup in game but some games like GODS ive had different problems, generally I think its worth trying in NTSC.
Lotus 2 and GoldenAxe seem better to me in NTSC although made for PAL.

Isnt it something to do with the number of Lines that make up the picture?
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Old 17 September 2009, 21:48   #14
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For PAL games running at 60 Hz:

Unless the game math/physics/movement was specifically adjusted for a faster framerate by the developer (some Graftgold games might be, I think), the game will 'feel' 20% faster (and require faster reflexes! )

All games except some flight sims have the player movement synced to the vsync, that's why. You could say something like, "all games running at full framerate and half framerate" attach the movement of all moving stuff to vsync. Only a very few games adjust for the actual time between frames.

If WHDload only adjusts the SCREENSIZE and doesn't switch to a 60 Hz mode, the PAL game should run at PAL speed, ofc. Haven't tried this.


Slight flicker watching white screens is normal for any CRT - your eyes will adjust to it after a short while and it becomes unnoticable. It all depends on the phosphor layer in the brand of CRT tube. Some retain the image long enough, some (like f.ex. some Trinitron tubes) are worse.

Captain Obvious :P drones on:

Even on VGA CRTs you can get flicker if you don't set the Refresh to 85Hz or higher. (Not installing monitor drivers can cause all displaymodes to default to 60 Hz or make 85 Hz modes inaccessible without Refresh-forcing software such as Powerstrip). The reason for VGA CRTs to require 85Hz or higher before getting rid of the flicker is that they usually have a very thin phosphor layer in the tube.

Last edited by Photon; 17 September 2009 at 22:10.
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Old 18 September 2009, 10:45   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Photon View Post
For PAL games running at 60 Hz:

Unless the game math/physics/movement was specifically adjusted for a faster framerate by the developer (some Graftgold games might be, I think), the game will 'feel' 20% faster (and require faster reflexes! )
20% seems a lot - NZS doesnt feel like its running 20% faster in NTSC or other games I tried - Can someone confirm the speed increase or how it works.
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Old 18 September 2009, 16:18   #16
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A game designed for 50Hz will run at 1.2 times the speed (20% faster) (60/50 = 1.2) on a 60Hz machine.

Similarly, a game designed for 60Hz will run at roughly 83% the speed on a 50Hz machine (50/60 * 100 = 83.33%)

Last edited by killergorilla; 18 September 2009 at 16:55.
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Old 18 September 2009, 16:53   #17
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Quote:
50/100 * 60 = 1.2
Strange. My calculator says that 50 / 100 * 60 = 30.

60 / 50 = 1.2 or 120 %

50 / 60 = 0.833 or 83.3 %
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Old 18 September 2009, 16:55   #18
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Yes...

I was eating at the time... plus... your calculator is broken... honest.

Fixed
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Old 18 September 2009, 16:59   #19
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your calculator is broken
Yes, that's probably the reason. Or yours calculates with miles while mine calculates with kilometers. Something like that.
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Old 18 September 2009, 16:59   #20
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To bussy shoving down Magic Ice - Would you not agree some games seem better in NTSC?
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