If M$ did all this to kill Quicktime, God only knows what they did to kill Amiga!

Pyromania · 21 September 2007, 23:58

http://www.roughlydrafted.com/RD/RDM...B0CA0C29C.html

I'm sure some backroom deals happened (are still happening?). Commodore died just before the release of Windows 95. The Amiga had the Video Toaster back then and was a huge threat to any company trying to sell computers for gaming/multimedia.

22 September 2007, 00:28

The well documented incompetence of the upper management at Commodore was quite sufficient to kill the company. They didn't need any help from Microshaft (not saying they didn't get it, just that they didn't need it).

Pyromania · 22 September 2007, 00:34

Maybe it was incompetence by design!

turrican3 · 22 September 2007, 00:36

i always believe that microsoft did something to kill the amiga

Graham Humphrey · 22 September 2007, 00:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by turrican3

i always believe that microsoft did something to kill the amiga

Like a well-marketed product with sufficient financial backing, something the Amiga didn't have?

I think Commodore did it themselves, although the whole Windows 95 thing was badly timed from the Amiga's point of view (I'm sure it made a difference) but basically if Commodore weren't so incompetent then it wouldn't have died.

blade002 · 22 September 2007, 02:01

Im with Pyromania on this one. Whilst Commodore's management team was almost solely responsible for its demise, perhaps maybe that was due to some inside liaising with Microsoft with people such as Medhi Ali.

We all know how Microsoft operates, they must have had "some" involvement, because its in their nature to do so.

woody57 · 22 September 2007, 02:25

perhaps the senior management of comodore had a few Microsoft "sleepers" in there & win95 was the trigger to awaken their self destructive phase

Zetr0 · 22 September 2007, 02:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Graham Humphrey

Like a well-marketed product with sufficient financial backing, something the Amiga didn't have?

I think Commodore did it themselves, although the whole Windows 95 thing was badly timed from the Amiga's point of view (I'm sure it made a difference) but basically if Commodore weren't so incompetent then it wouldn't have died.

Here Here!!!

!

Hobbe · 22 September 2007, 04:00

I don't recall having caught a single TV add for Amiga back in those days whilst Windows 95's campaign was so massive I almost began believing Microsoft had written Start Me Up

killergorilla · 22 September 2007, 06:00

can this be merged with the 67 other "what killed amiga" threads?

oneshotdead · 22 September 2007, 07:38

All great things die, and only the crap, the scum lives on.

Fred the Fop · 23 September 2007, 09:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by oneshotdead

All great things die, and only the crap, the scum lives on.

You need a shot of anti-dramatic over-the-top statement serum ASAP.
Seriously, I don't think MS would have given a rat's ass about Amiga. MS is and was about business and home computing dominance. Amiga sold what, 1.5 million copmputers?? Amiga was more of a gaming/graphic platform. The Apple OS and Sun and UNIX systems (later Linux) is what MS was after. You guys with conspiratorial theories need to get real.

blade002 · 23 September 2007, 10:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fred the Duck

You need a shot of anti-dramatic over-the-top statement serum ASAP.
Seriously, I don't think MS would have given a rat's ass about Amiga. MS is and was about business and home computing dominance. Amiga sold what, 1.5 million copmputers?? Amiga was more of a gaming/graphic platform. The Apple OS and Sun and UNIX systems (later Linux) is what MS was after. You guys with conspiratorial theories need to get real.

I dont know Fred. I mean none of us worked for Commodore, none of worked for Microsoft during that period so none of us really know what the inside working of each company was at that time in relation to the Microsoft & Commodore issue. ( yeah i know Commodore fucked up mostly on their own )

If Microsoft was part of what happened, then maybe you would have look deeper than just competition, but maybe at what they stood to gain from its demise, and what they stood to gain could have been anything, and none of could even begin to fathom the business plan of Microsoft.

In a nutshell, its no good saying we are wrong, and its no good us saying we are right. Its like trying to dispute the existence of God. Shit i don't know if he is really there?, i don't believe there is, but i guess i will never know till i am dead, just as Bible basher will dispute he is real but with no real evidence.

No one knows, No one ever will know, and to say people are wrong is like saying that i am going to die in car accident exactly a year from now. You just don't know.

Hmmm, now i feel like eating some Duck

( And no, i don't mean that Fred !!. Get your mind out of the gutter, you dirty bitch

)

Galahad/FLT · 23 September 2007, 10:36

Personally speaking, Microsoft have always been arrogant enough to not actually think that anyone is competition.

Microsoft are the magpies of the software industry, stealing the 'bright and shiny' things that other people do, and sticking it into their bloatware.

No doubt they would have looked at some of the things Amiga did well and incorporated it into their software, as they would have done with Apple, but as far as any conspiracy theories that Microsoft actually had a hand in destroying Commodore, I think thats a load of crap.

Commodore and the Amiga were a nothing to Microsoft, even with far inferior hardware, the PC was already dominating the hardware market.

I simply believe that Commodore were never 100% aware of what they had with Amiga and its future potential to expand and become more than the A1000 was in 1985.

The fact is, no matter how successful Commdore were or were not, the writing was on the wall for custom hardware by individual computer manufacturers. The PC norm of using 3rd party hardware was really starting to catch on, and today, even consoles today have more in common with PC's and their off the shelf hardware, than they do with the custom hardware of their predecessors.

Even if Commodore were successful in 1994-, to survive, they would have had to have gone the PC route. The PC was starting to dominate like nothing else, an unrelenting juggernaut. The Amiga would have become nothing more than a PC with an Amiga inspired bridgeboard to appease the diehards.

Commodore died because they didn't read the markets properly, didn't release AGA a lot sooner than they did. AGA Amigas should have been released in 1992, the height of Amiga ownership and software sales, this would have really prolonged the Amigas life, so that Commodore could have released the fabled AAA Amigas.

When the AGA Amigas were released, the PC was already ahead, Commodore lost the initiative, and never regained it.

From then on, Medhi Ali and co simply milked the company dry before it died, because now their premier product was behind, and they had nothing to compete with.

laser · 23 September 2007, 10:57

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/sites.htm

blade002 · 23 September 2007, 11:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galahad/FLT

didn't release AGA a lot sooner than they did. AGA Amigas should have been released in 1992,

I bought my A1200 in late 92, so they "were" released. Maybe that was a typo

Graham Humphrey · 23 September 2007, 11:47

They should certainly have released them sooner though, they milked the success of the A500 for far too long.

Galahad/FLT · 23 September 2007, 15:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by blade002

I bought my A1200 in late 92, so they "were" released. Maybe that was a typo

Yeah sorry, that was a typo, 1990 I meant

This was the time of major Amiga ownership saturation, the still must have machine, the release of AGA Amigas at this time would have severely negated the impact of the Sega Megadrive and Super Nintendo in the UK and Europe, because either would have struggled against such a machine.

Minuous · 23 September 2007, 15:32

It has been said that pressure was applied against Gateway by Microsoft. Not sure about Commodore though...

blade002 · 23 September 2007, 15:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galahad/FLT

Yeah sorry, that was a typo, 1990 I meant

This was the time of major Amiga ownership saturation, the still must have machine, the release of AGA Amigas at this time would have severely negated the impact of the Sega Megadrive and Super Nintendo in the UK and Europe, because either would have struggled against such a machine.

You are 110% correct

21 September 2007, 23:58	#1
Pyromania Moderator Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 3,375	If M$ did all this to kill Quicktime, God only knows what they did to kill Amiga! http://www.roughlydrafted.com/RD/RDM...B0CA0C29C.html I'm sure some backroom deals happened (are still happening?). Commodore died just before the release of Windows 95. The Amiga had the Video Toaster back then and was a huge threat to any company trying to sell computers for gaming/multimedia.

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22 September 2007, 00:28	#2
AlenK Posts: n/a	The well documented incompetence of the upper management at Commodore was quite sufficient to kill the company. They didn't need any help from Microshaft (not saying they didn't get it, just that they didn't need it).

22 September 2007, 00:34	#3
Pyromania Moderator Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 3,375	Maybe it was incompetence by design!

22 September 2007, 00:36	#4
turrican3 Moon 1969 = amiga 1985 Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: belgium Age: 48 Posts: 3,913	i always believe that microsoft did something to kill the amiga

22 September 2007, 02:01	#6
blade002 Zone Friend Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Australia Age: 50 Posts: 2,616	Im with Pyromania on this one. Whilst Commodore's management team was almost solely responsible for its demise, perhaps maybe that was due to some inside liaising with Microsoft with people such as Medhi Ali. We all know how Microsoft operates, they must have had "some" involvement, because its in their nature to do so.

22 September 2007, 02:25	#7
woody57 Registered User Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Manchester Posts: 801	perhaps the senior management of comodore had a few Microsoft "sleepers" in there & win95 was the trigger to awaken their self destructive phase

22 September 2007, 04:00	#9
Hobbe Registered User Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Røros Posts: 161	I don't recall having caught a single TV add for Amiga back in those days whilst Windows 95's campaign was so massive I almost began believing Microsoft had written Start Me Up

22 September 2007, 06:00	#10
killergorilla Lesser Talent Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: UK Age: 42 Posts: 7,957	can this be merged with the 67 other "what killed amiga" threads?

22 September 2007, 07:38	#11
oneshotdead Registered User Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: asteroid belt Posts: 273	All great things die, and only the crap, the scum lives on.

23 September 2007, 10:36	#14
Galahad/FLT Going nowhere Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: United Kingdom Age: 50 Posts: 8,986	Personally speaking, Microsoft have always been arrogant enough to not actually think that anyone is competition. Microsoft are the magpies of the software industry, stealing the 'bright and shiny' things that other people do, and sticking it into their bloatware. No doubt they would have looked at some of the things Amiga did well and incorporated it into their software, as they would have done with Apple, but as far as any conspiracy theories that Microsoft actually had a hand in destroying Commodore, I think thats a load of crap. Commodore and the Amiga were a nothing to Microsoft, even with far inferior hardware, the PC was already dominating the hardware market. I simply believe that Commodore were never 100% aware of what they had with Amiga and its future potential to expand and become more than the A1000 was in 1985. The fact is, no matter how successful Commdore were or were not, the writing was on the wall for custom hardware by individual computer manufacturers. The PC norm of using 3rd party hardware was really starting to catch on, and today, even consoles today have more in common with PC's and their off the shelf hardware, than they do with the custom hardware of their predecessors. Even if Commodore were successful in 1994-, to survive, they would have had to have gone the PC route. The PC was starting to dominate like nothing else, an unrelenting juggernaut. The Amiga would have become nothing more than a PC with an Amiga inspired bridgeboard to appease the diehards. Commodore died because they didn't read the markets properly, didn't release AGA a lot sooner than they did. AGA Amigas should have been released in 1992, the height of Amiga ownership and software sales, this would have really prolonged the Amigas life, so that Commodore could have released the fabled AAA Amigas. When the AGA Amigas were released, the PC was already ahead, Commodore lost the initiative, and never regained it. From then on, Medhi Ali and co simply milked the company dry before it died, because now their premier product was behind, and they had nothing to compete with.

23 September 2007, 10:57	#15
laser Banned Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Argentina Age: 51 Posts: 648	http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/sites.htm

23 September 2007, 11:47	#17
Graham Humphrey Moderator Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Norwich, Norfolk, UK Age: 37 Posts: 11,167	They should certainly have released them sooner though, they milked the success of the A500 for far too long.

23 September 2007, 15:32	#19
Minuous Coder/webmaster/gamer Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Canberra/Australia Posts: 2,629	It has been said that pressure was applied against Gateway by Microsoft. Not sure about Commodore though...

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