03 June 2018, 23:37 | #601 |
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Because in a handheld device the emphasis isn't on raw number-crunching performance - it's on power efficiency. If the web weren't such an unholy bloated javascript-ridden mess these days phones wouldn't need even half the processing power they currently have. |
04 June 2018, 08:34 | #602 |
son of 68k
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04 June 2018, 12:58 | #603 |
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10 June 2018, 17:25 | #604 |
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10 June 2018, 17:47 | #605 | ||||||
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Something worth spending my time for. Like maybe getting somebody to realize things aren't based on personal ideas but facts.
If one instead get repeatedly insulted in a way that shows the others in the "discussion" can't even be bothered to read there's no value to gain. Quote:
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The rest is nonsense, especially for someone liking the 68k architecture. Quote:
Unlike your characterization of me I've "defended" CISC designs in the past and tried to illustrate they aren't as bad as RISC extremists liked to claim. That doesn't mean that RISC isn't easier to execute faster and wider (superscalar) than CISC, especially in an FPGA. |
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11 June 2018, 08:01 | #606 | |||||||
son of 68k
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You say you want facts but that one will not attract coders with a bogus instruction set is a fact. Comparing instruction sets with real examples also leads to facts. Quote:
Keep in mind that what matters is the average number of instructions. Quote:
It wasn't meant to be a question. I just told you how a good example could look like. Sadly. Quote:
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12 June 2018, 18:59 | #607 |
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IIRC most processors these days are a hybrid of both CISC and RISC, and have been that way for a very long time now.
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12 June 2018, 19:24 | #608 |
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Instruction sets are for most people highly irrelevant these days.
Very few people care about them, not even me (apart from I do not like x86 very much), and I work with them on a daily basis and have probably worked with some 20 different architectures over the years. You just use what is at hand, and the vast majority of people do not even see it and could not care less. Of all aspects of a computer platform I think this must be one of the least important ones. |
12 June 2018, 19:28 | #609 | |
son of 68k
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12 June 2018, 19:57 | #610 | |
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However, the rest of the world is not at all like this. When it comes to the Amiga I could not care less whether it runs 68K or ARM. They both have their advantages and disadvantages and but I think both are viable alternatives. I just do not want the Amiga on x86 (which is too common and too boring) or PPC which is incompatible with 68K, expensive and a dead end. |
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12 June 2018, 21:12 | #611 | |
son of 68k
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ARM will not fare better and for the same reasons. The whole problem is that many people don't value the isa because they just don't see it directly - while nonetheless it's the basis for everything. Amiga could run multitasking OS in 512k because the whole cpu architecture permits this. Next time you run a demo that does unbelievable things, use some system patch or even play a whdload game, remember that it would not have been possible with arm instead of 68k. Of course none of my Atari ST to Amiga game ports would have been doable in a decent amount of time. And it is because for these tasks (and many others), having an abstraction layer around the cpu is not possible. |
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12 June 2018, 21:28 | #612 |
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There are Unix ports on STM32s, so there's nothing intrinsically wrong with ARMs in terms of supporting complex functionality on limited resources. I'm just getting into M68k asm but from what I've seen so far it's not got anything particularly unique compared to other instruction sets. (I'm fairly used to unusual architectures. MIL-STD-1750A anyone?)
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12 June 2018, 22:13 | #613 | ||
son of 68k
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To have a good view on this, the best way is to write the same code in different architectures, and compare. I asked for such comparisons in the past and noticed that while 68k code is easy to get (just ask here in coders.asm area), oddly nobody really shows code of other architecture to compare with. People just grumble architecture x, y or z is better than 68k or on par with it, without showing actual code to prove their claims (single instruction examples do NOT count). |
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12 June 2018, 23:32 | #614 |
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The only thing ive gotten from this thread, is most of the people participating don't really know what they are talking about, and confuse opinion with fact.
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12 June 2018, 23:56 | #615 |
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Hell, instruction sets were irrelevant to me back in the 80s - all they were was a way to tell the silicon how to do what I wanted it to do. The end result was the goal, be it z80, 6502, 68k, x86 or ARM. Still is, tbh.
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13 June 2018, 00:07 | #616 |
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Fun fact - I just got AROS/68k booting on the MiSTer (and the trick should work on MiST too)
After I noticed how LoadModule was able to load PeterK's icon.library, it dawned on me that I should try with scsi.device, so I put LoadModule and scsi.device 43.45 ("A300" version) onto the AROS bootfloppy, copied over ADF and HDF (with pfs3aio partitions btw) to the MiSTer and tada... after loading scsi.device with LoadModule, removing floppy and reset... AROS boots perfectly fine into DOpus desktop Then I tried installing HighGfx (http://aminet.net/package/driver/moni/HighGFX40_6), but it looks like running AmigaOS monitor definitions doesn't work, they just hang when I try to run them manually, and no modes show up in screenmode. Speedwise, AROS is quite usable on 40ish MHz 030 speeds, just needs trimming down the settings to match those of OS3.x Last edited by kolla; 13 June 2018 at 00:26. |
13 June 2018, 00:39 | #617 | |||
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13 June 2018, 09:49 | #618 | |
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Anyways, I took some photos and dumped them on dropbox https://www.dropbox.com/sh/2uwo9zk03..._Jvf1H8Aa?dl=0 |
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13 June 2018, 10:02 | #619 |
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Intel couldn't make it profitable. There are so many companies licensing ARM and making their own smartphone and tablet SoCs at very low prices. Intel tried to undercut them and were basically giving away Atom chips for free and losing tons of money, so they eventually canceled the Atom line altogether (the architecture still lives on in some Celeron branded chips). The profit margins in the smartphone/tablet space were just too slim for a company like Intel.
The actual SoCs were actually quite competitive. The Z3580 in the Zenfone 2 traded blows with the latest Snapdragon at the time and didn't sacrifice battery life. |
13 June 2018, 12:48 | #620 | ||
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http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=80344&page=4 what concerns monitors i have spoken to thor about it much much longer ago and he actually wasnt in favour to implement it in aros. he considered it an undocumented hack and preferred aros implement this kind of preferences in a clean even if incompatible manner, as it actually does. Quote:
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