Amiga on Wired - Page 2

Syko · 10 February 2003, 17:09

The problem I have with THG is that they CLAIM to be independant, but use benchmarks which are known to favour Intel based mobo's/CPU's. Other sites often have a fairly obvious bias one way or the other.

Hey Burseg, the full story would fill a web site vanshardware.com I recomend getting it straight from the guy it happened too!

Oh and Unknown_K, Nvidia IS 3DFx - or at least 80% of their R & D team is...

Unknown_K · 10 February 2003, 18:38

Judging by how slow 3dfx's r&d turned out I dont think Nvidia's R&D team can be mostly from 3dfx.. where did the guys who designed the geforces go?

Unlike alot of other cards (first TNT etc) 3dfx cards ran great out of the box with shipping drivers with no artifacts on the screen. If your using NVIDIA cards your always changing drivers to get best performance.

Syko · 12 February 2003, 13:00

The original team is still (75%) with Nvidia. AFAIK very few of them have left since the GeForce 256 chip was first produced. The 3DFx h/w guys where hired with the demise of 3DFx. Don't know about the s/w guys from 3DFx though...

Unfortunately the s/w guys are under staffed compared to the h/w, and they have to produce a universal windows driver that will work with ALL Nvidia cards from the first TNT's to the latest GF4's; where as 3DFx produced specific DOS level drivers.

Unknown_K · 12 February 2003, 13:56

I dont think the FX cards fall under the unified drivers, DX9 is a major step forward in 3d api I think.

Whatever you say about 3dfx their drivers didnt need updating that much (unlike Nvidia). Then again they were the #1 undisputed 3d card for quite a while.

Syko · 14 February 2003, 15:26

Give you good odds the FX does use the unified drivers...

Part of the reason the 3DFx drivers were stable and reliable from the start, was GLide. When you chuck 40% of the OpenGL instructions (especialy the ones that cause most stability probs) life is a lot easier for the driver writers...

jmmijo · 14 February 2003, 16:23

Yes Glide may have been a proprietary API but the games that utilized it ran very smoothly and looked great, lots of eye candy.

I do however think that DirectX and OpenGL have finally surpassed what Glide can do now, both in the visual and general API areas.

Syko · 14 February 2003, 16:37

Quote:

Yes Glide may have been a proprietary API but the games that utilized it ran very smoothly and looked great, lots of eye candy.

Definately! and for the same reason Amiga games got so much performance - optimisation for one system (OK Ami stuff hit the metal as well :-P )

Unknown_K · 14 February 2003, 18:53

Well programmers love to write code specific to the machine thier on and do all kinds of fancy tricks. So when you upgrade your hardware you find alot of those apps/games crash because of those tricks. I have seen installs for sound card drivers crash because of stupid things like hard coded input timers that expire too fast on newer machines. Or doing tricks outside of the published specs for CGA games that look all screwed up on ega or better monitors (ok thats the dos world).

I do remember companies like creative doing a glide wraparound for thier non 3dfx products so they could play glide specific games.

One good thing about directx is that ever company doesnt go their own way in hardware (like a specific bump mapping was designated as standard for 3d games, same with texture compression, T&L etc) this way a game designer just picks the feature set and the game runs on multiple cards (some slower then others but it runs).

Syko · 17 February 2003, 12:43

While I hate and detest the way Microscum do business, DirectX has forced the 3D apps and games to match a "standard" and has made tech support a hell of a lot easier!

But when bugs do occurr Ms deny any responsibility, or make the patch hard to find - one I had found to fix DX games dropping back to desktop when DX is triggered (like Age of Empires), now cann't be found using the same search parameters that I used originally. This is deliberate obsfucation by Ms because it is 'fixed' in DX9. It's not the only patch this has happened to, but it's the one that's pissing me off a lot coz I need it!

jmmijo · 17 February 2003, 16:10

Have you tried to FTP to Microsoft's Software Library folder? Not sure if it will be listed in there are not however

Syko · 20 February 2003, 15:44

It'l probably be listed by the 'Q' number

which, without the search system bringing up the relevant article, is not so easy to use.

jmmijo · 20 February 2003, 15:57

Quote:

Originally posted by Syko
It'l probably be listed by the 'Q' number which, without the search system bringing up the relevant article, is not so easy to use.

True, but I beleive they have a huge files listing in there as well stating what each filename is and contains

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10 February 2003, 17:09	#21
Syko Now got GSX750F :)) Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Halifax UK Age: 59 Posts: 584	The problem I have with THG is that they CLAIM to be independant, but use benchmarks which are known to favour Intel based mobo's/CPU's. Other sites often have a fairly obvious bias one way or the other. Hey Burseg, the full story would fill a web site vanshardware.com I recomend getting it straight from the guy it happened too! Oh and Unknown_K, Nvidia IS 3DFx - or at least 80% of their R & D team is...

10 February 2003, 18:38	#22
Unknown_K Registered User Join Date: May 2002 Location: Ohio/USA Age: 55 Posts: 1,380	Judging by how slow 3dfx's r&d turned out I dont think Nvidia's R&D team can be mostly from 3dfx.. where did the guys who designed the geforces go? Unlike alot of other cards (first TNT etc) 3dfx cards ran great out of the box with shipping drivers with no artifacts on the screen. If your using NVIDIA cards your always changing drivers to get best performance.

12 February 2003, 13:00	#23
Syko Now got GSX750F :)) Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Halifax UK Age: 59 Posts: 584	The original team is still (75%) with Nvidia. AFAIK very few of them have left since the GeForce 256 chip was first produced. The 3DFx h/w guys where hired with the demise of 3DFx. Don't know about the s/w guys from 3DFx though... Unfortunately the s/w guys are under staffed compared to the h/w, and they have to produce a universal windows driver that will work with ALL Nvidia cards from the first TNT's to the latest GF4's; where as 3DFx produced specific DOS level drivers.

12 February 2003, 13:56	#24
Unknown_K Registered User Join Date: May 2002 Location: Ohio/USA Age: 55 Posts: 1,380	I dont think the FX cards fall under the unified drivers, DX9 is a major step forward in 3d api I think. Whatever you say about 3dfx their drivers didnt need updating that much (unlike Nvidia). Then again they were the #1 undisputed 3d card for quite a while.

14 February 2003, 15:26	#25
Syko Now got GSX750F :)) Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Halifax UK Age: 59 Posts: 584	Give you good odds the FX does use the unified drivers... Part of the reason the 3DFx drivers were stable and reliable from the start, was GLide. When you chuck 40% of the OpenGL instructions (especialy the ones that cause most stability probs) life is a lot easier for the driver writers...

14 February 2003, 16:23	#26
jmmijo Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: PDX Age: 62 Posts: 2,395	Yes Glide may have been a proprietary API but the games that utilized it ran very smoothly and looked great, lots of eye candy. I do however think that DirectX and OpenGL have finally surpassed what Glide can do now, both in the visual and general API areas.

14 February 2003, 18:53	#28
Unknown_K Registered User Join Date: May 2002 Location: Ohio/USA Age: 55 Posts: 1,380	Well programmers love to write code specific to the machine thier on and do all kinds of fancy tricks. So when you upgrade your hardware you find alot of those apps/games crash because of those tricks. I have seen installs for sound card drivers crash because of stupid things like hard coded input timers that expire too fast on newer machines. Or doing tricks outside of the published specs for CGA games that look all screwed up on ega or better monitors (ok thats the dos world). I do remember companies like creative doing a glide wraparound for thier non 3dfx products so they could play glide specific games. One good thing about directx is that ever company doesnt go their own way in hardware (like a specific bump mapping was designated as standard for 3d games, same with texture compression, T&L etc) this way a game designer just picks the feature set and the game runs on multiple cards (some slower then others but it runs).

17 February 2003, 12:43	#29
Syko Now got GSX750F :)) Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Halifax UK Age: 59 Posts: 584	While I hate and detest the way Microscum do business, DirectX has forced the 3D apps and games to match a "standard" and has made tech support a hell of a lot easier! But when bugs do occurr Ms deny any responsibility, or make the patch hard to find - one I had found to fix DX games dropping back to desktop when DX is triggered (like Age of Empires), now cann't be found using the same search parameters that I used originally. This is deliberate obsfucation by Ms because it is 'fixed' in DX9. It's not the only patch this has happened to, but it's the one that's pissing me off a lot coz I need it!

17 February 2003, 16:10	#30
jmmijo Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: PDX Age: 62 Posts: 2,395	Have you tried to FTP to Microsoft's Software Library folder? Not sure if it will be listed in there are not however

20 February 2003, 15:44	#31
Syko Now got GSX750F :)) Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Halifax UK Age: 59 Posts: 584	It'l probably be listed by the 'Q' number which, without the search system bringing up the relevant article, is not so easy to use.

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