C64 mini - Page 3

malko · 26 March 2018, 16:08

Ok, thanks

Amiga1992 · 26 March 2018, 16:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Retro-Nerd

You can start other games, but it seems painful inconvenient.

https://thec64.com/loading-other-programs/

LOL

Quote:

Rename your disk file on the memory stick to THEC64-drive8.d64

What if your game has more than one disk/side?
wait, they explain it

https://thec64.com/troubleshooting/

Wow! Surely that is the TRUE C64 EXPERIENCE!!

This thing is so stupid.

Retro-Nerd · 26 March 2018, 16:49

A review from 8bit Guy. Interesting part is, you can see the input lag clearly with his test software.

[ Show youtube player ]

LieutLaww · 26 March 2018, 17:04

This is the very first version out of the door, there will be firmware updates to allow for more than 1 disk etc and they should be with us soon.

Amiga1992 · 26 March 2018, 17:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Retro-Nerd

A review from 8bit Guy. Interesting part is, you can see the input lag clearly with his test software.

Wow that's really bad.
SID doesn't sound accurate either.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LieutLaww

This is the very first version out of the door, there will be firmware updates to allow for more than 1 disk etc and they should be with us soon.

Or you can, you know, get a Raspberry Pi and use VICE right away.

malko · 26 March 2018, 17:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Retro-Nerd

A review from 8bit Guy. Interesting part is, you can see the input lag clearly with his test software.

[ Show youtube player ]

malko · 26 March 2018, 17:51

The product has undeniably some "youthful indiscretions" but as it is simpler to set up than a Raspberry Pi, it's more that probable that it will find its target audience.
Of course, the biggest weakness is the lag. For me the reaction lag is more important (it's a big part of the gameplay) as the audio one. Maybe for some people it's not so important...
Let's see what they are going to do with the firmware updates.

onkelarie · 26 March 2018, 19:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by malko

The product has undeniably some "youthful indiscretions" but as it is simpler to set up than a Raspberry Pi, it's more that probable that it will find its target audience.

I had my RPi zero running as a dedicated c64 in the time it took to write the available image to the sd card

MickGyver · 26 March 2018, 20:19

The latency/input lag makes this unusable for any real gaming. 130ms video lag and 300+ms audio lag way beyond acceptable. Input lag seems to be a much too common problem nowadays, the nes and snes classic have acceptable lag though. Hopefully this will be fixed with a firmware update.

ransom1122 · 27 March 2018, 09:20

Here is some information on the Disk Swapping method on day 1 release. Obviously after firmware updates they are promising it will be much easier to use multi disk games

https://thec64.com/troubleshooting/

As for latency/lag TV's cause LAG as well so everyone will have different lag depending on what screen they use.

lordofchaos · 27 March 2018, 12:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Retro-Nerd

A review from 8bit Guy. Interesting part is, you can see the input lag clearly with his test software.

[ Show youtube player ]

This single factor changed my mind, latency number one issue for me. Still a nice bit of kit, perhaps it could be improved with firmware updates.

Anubis · 27 March 2018, 14:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by lordofchaos

This single factor changed my mind, latency number one issue for me. Still a nice bit of kit, perhaps it could be improved with firmware updates.

Or with functioning keyboard.

There is nothing you can't get from RPi, and if you having issues running RPi, then more likely C64 wasn't your kind of things anyway...

Or just WinVice on PC. If you like to have nice Front end, bundle it with LaunchBox.

Amiga1992 · 27 March 2018, 16:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by ransom1122

As for latency/lag TV's cause LAG as well so everyone will have different lag depending on what screen they use.

Yes, but a TV would NOT cause 100+ ms of lag, the number would be far less.
Even if the TV is causing 70ms of lag (a lot), you still have 60ms of video and 290ms of audio (!) lag created by the machine itself.

Retro-Nerd · 27 March 2018, 16:36

He had the TV in "game mode". Even if this TV still has 30-40ms lag then it's unacceptable. You can cleary see the lag visually, with his test software. First i thought it could be the crappy USB hub he used. But from what i've read this devices don't add a large amount of additional lag.

nexus · 27 March 2018, 17:46

this thing is garbage cant believe 8-bit guy didnt say that ffs if you are gonna redo a old 8-bit computer do it right and use real components or at least a fpga we have enough emulation devices that are better than this thing

demolition · 28 March 2018, 09:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akira

Yes, but a TV would NOT cause 100+ ms of lag, the number would be far less.
Even if the TV is causing 70ms of lag (a lot), you still have 60ms of video and 290ms of audio (!) lag created by the machine itself.

Some TVs actually have >100ms of input lag, although a typical bad one is in the range 50~60ms, which is the range I would expect his generic Samsung TV is (can't tell which model it is). The best TVs out there are below 20 and even 10 ms.

AdvanceFollow · 28 March 2018, 09:42

The input lag and especially the audio lag does seem excessive. The Raspberry Pi or even emulators on Windows don't experience that kind of lag, so this kind of defeats the purpose of having a dedicated device.
I'm very happy with the C64 core on my MiST. The last couple of updates solved a lot of issues, and input lag is essentially non-existent, especially if using a CRT or gaming LCD via the VGA output.

demolition · 28 March 2018, 09:59

I must say that this device does not look as bad as I expected it to be. Yes, it is not the thing for me and the latency is a major deal-breaker, but for the average consumer who just wants to replay a few of the old games, it seems to do the job as it is quite easy to get running, as long as your TV is compatible and you just want to play the games it is supplied with. I'm positively surprised that no hacks are needed to get a BASIC prompt and mount/run a d64 image. The save state feature also seems very nice and will certainly help you with those tricky old games. :-)

It is a pity that they couldn't use the C64DTV chip as they were initially planning since that would have sorted out the latency issue. But HDMI would be mandatory so they would have had to redesign that chip to make it up to scratch.

I'm just waiting for my Ultimate64 now and I also managed to talk a colleague of mine out of buying the C64 Mini and order an Ultimate64 board instead. :-) I have a spare case and keyboard that I will give him, so he can have a full size 64 with a working keyboard instead of a fake one..

nexus · 28 March 2018, 18:40

its just a garbage cash grab dont support such crap
also it should been a 64gs with no kb

what i would like to see is someone make a mini c128/d with a working keyboard etc and not emulation

smila · 10 April 2018, 13:25

I've got one and after switching the tv to game mode i don't notice any lag in sound or vision at all.
It looks beautiful on a big tv and is a piece o piss to plug n play.
The joystick is ok but i just ain't used to using one these days so went for the joypad instead.
The next firmware update will allow multiple d64's to be selected.
Emulation on the whole feels a little cold but using this feels great - i'd fully recommend it to fans of the c64.
The best thing its done is getting people talking about the machine again and get old users back onto it again.

26 March 2018, 17:51	#47
malko Ex nihilo nihil Join Date: Oct 2017 Location: CH Posts: 4,857	The product has undeniably some "youthful indiscretions" but as it is simpler to set up than a Raspberry Pi, it's more that probable that it will find its target audience. Of course, the biggest weakness is the lag. For me the reaction lag is more important (it's a big part of the gameplay) as the audio one. Maybe for some people it's not so important... Let's see what they are going to do with the firmware updates. Last edited by malko; 26 March 2018 at 19:09. Reason: misprint

27 March 2018, 16:36	#54
Retro-Nerd Missile Command Champion Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Germany Age: 52 Posts: 12,438	He had the TV in "game mode". Even if this TV still has 30-40ms lag then it's unacceptable. You can cleary see the lag visually, with his test software. First i thought it could be the crappy USB hub he used. But from what i've read this devices don't add a large amount of additional lag. Last edited by Retro-Nerd; 27 March 2018 at 16:50.

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26 March 2018, 16:08	#41
malko Ex nihilo nihil Join Date: Oct 2017 Location: CH Posts: 4,857	Ok, thanks

26 March 2018, 16:49	#43
Retro-Nerd Missile Command Champion Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Germany Age: 52 Posts: 12,438	A review from 8bit Guy. Interesting part is, you can see the input lag clearly with his test software. [ Show youtube player ]

26 March 2018, 17:04	#44
LieutLaww Registered User Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Uckfield, UK Age: 53 Posts: 195	This is the very first version out of the door, there will be firmware updates to allow for more than 1 disk etc and they should be with us soon.

26 March 2018, 20:19	#49
MickGyver Registered User Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Finland Posts: 643	The latency/input lag makes this unusable for any real gaming. 130ms video lag and 300+ms audio lag way beyond acceptable. Input lag seems to be a much too common problem nowadays, the nes and snes classic have acceptable lag though. Hopefully this will be fixed with a firmware update.

27 March 2018, 09:20	#50
ransom1122 Registered User Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Omnicorp Age: 45 Posts: 5,813	Here is some information on the Disk Swapping method on day 1 release. Obviously after firmware updates they are promising it will be much easier to use multi disk games https://thec64.com/troubleshooting/ As for latency/lag TV's cause LAG as well so everyone will have different lag depending on what screen they use.

27 March 2018, 17:46	#55
nexus Registered User Join Date: Aug 2017 Location: USA Posts: 728	this thing is garbage cant believe 8-bit guy didnt say that ffs if you are gonna redo a old 8-bit computer do it right and use real components or at least a fpga we have enough emulation devices that are better than this thing

28 March 2018, 09:42	#57
AdvanceFollow Registered User Join Date: Oct 2017 Location: Sweden Age: 39 Posts: 46	The input lag and especially the audio lag does seem excessive. The Raspberry Pi or even emulators on Windows don't experience that kind of lag, so this kind of defeats the purpose of having a dedicated device. I'm very happy with the C64 core on my MiST. The last couple of updates solved a lot of issues, and input lag is essentially non-existent, especially if using a CRT or gaming LCD via the VGA output.

28 March 2018, 09:59	#58
demolition Unregistered User Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Copenhagen / DK Age: 43 Posts: 4,190	I must say that this device does not look as bad as I expected it to be. Yes, it is not the thing for me and the latency is a major deal-breaker, but for the average consumer who just wants to replay a few of the old games, it seems to do the job as it is quite easy to get running, as long as your TV is compatible and you just want to play the games it is supplied with. I'm positively surprised that no hacks are needed to get a BASIC prompt and mount/run a d64 image. The save state feature also seems very nice and will certainly help you with those tricky old games. :-) It is a pity that they couldn't use the C64DTV chip as they were initially planning since that would have sorted out the latency issue. But HDMI would be mandatory so they would have had to redesign that chip to make it up to scratch. I'm just waiting for my Ultimate64 now and I also managed to talk a colleague of mine out of buying the C64 Mini and order an Ultimate64 board instead. :-) I have a spare case and keyboard that I will give him, so he can have a full size 64 with a working keyboard instead of a fake one..

28 March 2018, 18:40	#59
nexus Registered User Join Date: Aug 2017 Location: USA Posts: 728	its just a garbage cash grab dont support such crap also it should been a 64gs with no kb what i would like to see is someone make a mini c128/d with a working keyboard etc and not emulation

10 April 2018, 13:25	#60
smila Registered User Join Date: May 2009 Location: england Posts: 29	I've got one and after switching the tv to game mode i don't notice any lag in sound or vision at all. It looks beautiful on a big tv and is a piece o piss to plug n play. The joystick is ok but i just ain't used to using one these days so went for the joypad instead. The next firmware update will allow multiple d64's to be selected. Emulation on the whole feels a little cold but using this feels great - i'd fully recommend it to fans of the c64. The best thing its done is getting people talking about the machine again and get old users back onto it again.

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