Why are platform games on the Amiga really mediocre?

[Dastardly]

Originally Posted by eva

I wanted to chime in on this one... I've played a lot of SNES / SEGA platform games and they were very bad. I guess that a lot of console stuff is wrapped in a bunch of advertisement. I remember Mario and it was really terrible. It became very popular indeed but if you contrast it to say, right about any Amiga platform game, Mario really sucks. Compare Mario to a game like Gods or Twin World and see the difference.

I know it's subjective etc, but I don't know how anyone can come to the conclusion that any platform games on Amiga are better than the 2D Mario games. To me they are the pinnacle of perfect platform game mechanics. Don't mistake me for a Mario/Nintendo fanboy either because I'm not, but Super Mario World for example is just a brilliantly crafted game that, to me is head and shoulders above any comparable Amiga attempt at the genre.

You also seem to be suggesting that their success is largely based on advertising/hype? This really isn't the case. Those games have stood the test of time for a reason.

[Shoonay]

Originally Posted by Dastardly

You also seem to be suggesting that their success is largely based on advertising/hype?

I'd say the fact that it was shipped with the console AKA the first game people tried. You can't really name a single game on the Amiga that everyone had on the day of the purchase.

But yeah, Nintendo has it's way with games that most of them get polished into a diamond.

[Mrs Beanbag]

i played Super Mario Bros on the arcade machine long before anyone i knew had a NES.

i never had a NES. i never wanted a NES. but there's no denying, Super Mario Bros is a great game.

There is a thread elsewhere on this forum asking about Super Mario for Amiga. well i don't want to make that game really, if i'm honest (and not just because of copyright). i want to make Ultra Giana Sisters.

[Retro-Nerd]

You find enough gameplay flaws in the 2D Mario games, e.g. annoying situations were you have to jump exactly at the (nearly) last pixel of a platform to reach to next. And if you look closely some of them doesn't scroll perfectly smooth. Or the repetitive level design only with different graphics. They are great games, but they are cleary not untouchable classics. I prefer the Disney platformer or the Bonk games.

[phx]

Originally Posted by Mrs Beanbag

i want to make Ultra Giana Sisters.

Then contact Shahzad Sahaib of Retroguru. We have already an agreement with Spellbound/Blackforest Games to use their trademark in "Giana's Return", which I ported to MorphOS and OS4.

I'm sure a game like Ultra Giana Sisters with your experience from Mr.Beanbag would be great.

[Mrs Beanbag]

i hope everyone has seen this
[ Show youtube player ]

how NOT to design a level!

Originally Posted by phx

Then contact Shahzad Sahaib of Retroguru. We have already an agreement with Spellbound/Blackforest Games to use their trademark in "Giana's Return", which I ported to MorphOS and OS4.

I'm sure a game like Ultra Giana Sisters with your experience from Mr.Beanbag would be great.

Oh! Well i did wonder who held the copyright! I might be in touch but not anytime soon, i have my next project already lined up.

I will, however, be having ideas about it all the time. i never stop getting ideas.

[commodorejohn]

Originally Posted by phx

Then contact Shahzad Sahaib of Retroguru. We have already an agreement with Spellbound/Blackforest Games to use their trademark in "Giana's Return", which I ported to MorphOS and OS4.

It would be kinda meta-perfect for someone to change the Giana Sisters designs just enough to be non-infringing and then make a game with that

[Mrs Beanbag]

Originally Posted by commodorejohn

It would be kinda meta-perfect for someone to change the Giana Sisters designs just enough to be non-infringing and then make a game with that

these days i don't even know if it would be considered infringing, apart from the first two level designs which are obviously literally copied, all of the gameplay elements are pretty much standard now.

[Paul_s]

Originally Posted by Mrs Beanbag

i hope everyone has seen this
[ Show youtube player ]

how NOT to design a level!

Is that some special version of Mario?

In anycase it looks bloody annoying!!

[Mrs Beanbag]

it is a hacked rom

[Retro-Nerd]

Actually there are many rom hacks which improves the controls or the gameplay balance of so called "console classics" on Romhacking.net.

[Mrs Beanbag]

well i wouldn't always say "improves"... http://www.romhacking.net/hacks/1718/ !

but obviously even the "classics" are not perfect and we can learn from any mistakes we see in them, and hopefully not make too many new ones

[Retro-Nerd]

Well, they hack everything. Sometimes silly, anyway. There are decent Rom hacks out there. I like the Mega Drive colour palette changes in some games or the improved soundriver updates.

[Lonewolf10]

Originally Posted by eva

Then there's Sonic on SEGA - which, let's say it is one of the better ones. However, it also benefited from a lot of advertisement. In fact, I like very few platform games from consoles - I used to play a lot of Donkey Kong with my ex on the SNES.

The Sonic games (Sonic 1 to 3, Sonic & Knuckles) and Donkey Kong Country 1-3 were great fun to play. Great music, awesome colourful visuals and were fairly challenging to complete. I had to use a guide to complete DKC1 101% (yes, one hundred and one percent) to find all the secret areas.

Originally Posted by eva

I wonder how many people actually "finished" a game like Golden Axe, Ninja Turtles, Mario or Donkey Kong - I mean like really finish, from start to end credits. I am not sure I could do it even today.

Ninja Turtles was very hard and annoying, but I managed it... once only. Golden Axe was hard, however it's one of those games that you get further each time the more you play it. Learning to take out the small guys before taking on the bigger ones definitely helps.
Mario... I completed Super Mario World with everything unlocked (all secret star road areas, and all secret areas), however I have failed to complete Yoshi's Island with everything unlocked. I just have a few levels to unlock in the last area.
Donkey Kong Country I mentioned above, but I did get a chance to play the Donkey Kong Game & Watch game thanks to a mate back in the 1980s.

Originally Posted by Retro-Nerd

Lithium button cell batteries leakes rarely. They lose energy after 5-10 years, easy to replace.

That is sort of true. I heard that console cartridge batteries recharge their energy if played regularly. For example, I have played Super Mario World, Donkey Kong Country 1-3, F-Zero and Mario-Kart games on my SNES atleast once every 2 years - these games are around 20 years old and I have NOT replaced the batteries in them. Either they are using flash-ram (as I think Mrs Beanbag touched on) or the batteries are indeed rechargeable.

As a sidestory and a safety warning, someone on an email list I'm on had to replace a battery in one of his game cartridges. He was trying to solder it back onto the cartridge circuitboard and wasn't wearing a safety visor. He kept trying and trying and it wouldn't solder on. The battery was getting hot so he decided to put a safety visor on and went about trying to solder it onto the circuitboard one more time when the tiny battery exploded sending nasty chemicals everywhere. He had a very close call, battery acid is nasty stuff.

[Mrs Beanbag]

boy am i having ideas for Ultra Giana Sisters now

this is why i never get enough sleep

I BLAME EVERYBODY HERE

[Paul_s]

How awesome does Boogie Wings look and sound?

[ Show youtube player ]

[Dastardly]

Originally Posted by Retro-Nerd

You find enough gameplay flaws in the 2D Mario games, e.g. annoying situations were you have to jump exactly at the (nearly) last pixel of a platform to reach to next. And if you look closely some of them doesn't scroll perfectly smooth. Or the repetitive level design only with different graphics. They are great games, but they are cleary not untouchable classics. I prefer the Disney platformer or the Bonk games.

I wouldn't consider pixel perfect jumping requirements as an annoyance, but rather a sign a quality design. A pure platform game with tight controls is bound to have really challenging parts. The important thing is that if you fail to make the jump then it's because the player screwed up and not as a result of dodgy sprite collision. I think the Mario games absolutely get this right. I do agree though that they aren't "untouchable classics". I don't think anything is.

[Retro-Nerd]

Pixel perfect jumping as a quality design? I've seen many people playing Mario Bros. games and at some point they needed 10-20 (or more) tries or gave up. I consider this as bad game design. They got it right in the Super Mario Land games though.

[Dastardly]

It separates the men from the boys though eh?

[Retro-Nerd]

Surely a joypad destroyer for some.