whdload problem on stock 1200

so i got a standard a1200, 2mb chip, 240mb hd and i want to use it for whdload games. my problem is that most of the games i ve tried wont work because of that damn cant allocate expmem error. walker for example requires 0.5 chip mem and 0.5 other mem and the game will run with the preload option. which is confusing cos... i have no other mem xcept the 2mb chip ram. on the other hand, games like k240, monkey island etc. have exactly the same requirements and they wont run cos they cant allocate expmem. i disabled preload in tooltype and i tried loading the games in cli but in vain. i also tried to force whdload not to use the expmem by forcing it to load all files in chip mem with the expchip argument. nope. no go. i also tried booting without the startup sequence and it wont work. i also tried to delete the whdload.prefs file and the games just wont work. and im all out of ideas now and i would really appreciate any idea given.

P.S im not able to buy any expansion cards cos i live in croatia and i cant find anything amiga related here.

thanx in advance.

[Codetapper]

You won't like the answer but basically you need more memory.

To run a game, WHDLoad needs the first 512k of chip memory so saves the contents of anything used in that area. Add another 100k for the program itself in memory and the stack. Now you need some buffer space to hold the files you are loading. You need as much memory as the biggest file takes up, or the length of the chip memory.

When you add all that up, it's very tight getting a 512k game to fit, let alone a game like Walker which consists of several Mb of datafiles.

To load a file, WHDLoad has to restore the operating system to a state that allows it to use the built in dos.library commands to load files to RAM. Then it has to throw the O/S out, and copy/decrunch the file from the buffer into the final position.

If you are not prepared to expand your A1200 then you can only expect to run small games like Rick Dangerous, Switchblade etc. All you can do is create a slimline WB with 4 colours MAX, no crap in your startup and preferably run all your games from the command line rather than fragmenting memory with icons.

[s8n]

i knew it... but i am able to run and play walker! and i am unable to play lets say... k240 eventhough they have the same requirements . i use classicwb lite with only 2 colors. i used a standard 3.1 workbench before and walker ran on that one too. how much memory does bare wb need anyway?

[Codetapper]

A minimal Workbench requires between 150 and 200k. As soon as you start adding commodities like ToolsDaemon and increasing the colour depth, it goes up quickly.

When you set the Preload option, WHDLoad will only attempt to preload as much stuff as possible. If you only have 2Mb and it can't preload any files, adding preload won't actually do anything.

I haven't got K240 here to check but the reason Walker might work whereas other games don't is because Walker is split into about 20 relatively small files. Assuming WHDLoad can allocate 1Mb for the game and has as much memory spare as the biggest file takes up, it can restore the O/S and load the file into that block. From memory the biggest files are about 300k (because they are RNC packed) so it's probably doing a lot of O/S swaps but is able to load the whole game. I also optimised the loading routine on Walker so it doesn't check which disk is in before loading. That potentially saves an O/S swap between every load so it loads quicker.

I once tried running Beast 2 on a base A1200 and it took about 10 minutes to load to the title screen (presumably because the game loads a single track at a time) and when I hit fire to start, it did another 10 minutes of loading but never got into the game.

I highly recommend you get a cheap 68030 accelerator on EBay with some extra memory and you'll be able to play every game. And then you'll have no excuse to not register WHDLoad

[keropi]

not a cheap 030 accelerator... I got a Winner/Apollo MK3-Turbo 1230 full 68030@40Mhz, and the a1200 freezes upon starting a whdload slave...
Right now I have a M-Tec 1230/28 with 8MB board, but this is also not very good, I get several memory errors (tried several simms, make no difference) and some OS emulation probs.... I use os3.9... Perhaps the fact that my a1200 is not a commodore but an amiga technologies build is to blame???

[Bloodwych]

Codetapper has the technical explanation; I'll try and add some further advice.

Yes unfortunately 2MB means hit and miss with certain WHDload/JST games.

The good news is that there are many titles that do work like Beachvolley and Battlesquadron, plus many JST titles run fine too. Any that are not usable, you’ll have to use the utils provided in the Classicwb Lite to write out an ADF version of the game back onto a real disk. Some of these games may require the 1.3 ROM degrader utility to work or certain options selected from the boot menu.

If a particular game doesn’t run from disk on the 2MB A1200 then you’ll need either a good old A500 or A1200 ram/accel expansion so you can go back to the WHDload version.

Games like Monkey Island, Eye of the Beholder, Syndicate etc will need to be installed using the default installer provided on the original disks then they should work fine. Some titles may require booting up with the “ECS” chipset option to avoid graphics corruption.

More info on low chipram problems can be found on the classicwb site in the “Tips” section.

Hope this helps.

[s8n]

i read somewhere that whdload can use somekind of a compressed format of games. now if thats true, would that make any difference with my problem? and i read that the xfs filesystem can mount adf files and i was wondering if you guys can tell me something about the xfs?

Originally Posted by keropi

not a cheap 030 accelerator... I got a Winner/Apollo MK3-Turbo 1230 full 68030@40Mhz, and the a1200 freezes upon starting a whdload slave...

Originally Posted by keropi

For sale: Apollo 1230 Mk-III Turbo

Price is 40euro

[keropi]

yes, why is bad to sell it? If someone does not want to use mmu with whdload or has no interested in whdload this card is very fast for a 030...

[s8n]

i got around my mem problems and now am able to run most of my games. including k240, goblins2... well xcept castle of dr.brain but that has nothing to do with whdload cos im not using it with that game. i completely cleared the user startup and now i have more free memory for whdload. if only you could tell me how to remove the tools daemon from my startup that would be great. and i have a suggestion about the classic wb lite. i think that it can be much lighter than it is. and my case proves that. i think that that could be accomplished if bloodwych would enhance the installer so that the user can choose what programs will get installed and which ones will be included in the startup sequence. or maybe you could include several version of startup sequence files, each optimised for a certain use.

[Bloodwych]

The classicwb lite does get neglected in terms of testing time as I have an expanded A1200, therefore the full versions tend to receive my full attention. People's experiences are what help me identify problems which I’m always willing to address...however…

Didn't you read the advice on the webpage/web-manual in the tips section ? The reason I pointed you there was the low-chipram advice. It gives you tips on how to run programs using max mem.

The next light version will have a mouse selection utility (like mentioned in tips) to boot between a max mem and the normal lite setup. Probably should have been added a long time ago but no one ever mentioned issues with the lite.

There is no way it can be any lighter in its default state without losing key useful features. As it is, it boots with 1600K free which isn’t too bad. Even the prefs/env is only holding the absolute bare minimum files. To remove more programs like tools demon, look in the wb-startup drawer and move any icons you wish. Really though, it might as well just be a default wb 3 install.

Using the other methods outlined in the help file provided (including cli/RAD methods), stripping down the classicwb lite can be totally avoided.

Originally Posted by keropi

yes, why is bad to sell it? If someone does not want to use mmu with whdload or has no interested in whdload this card is very fast for a 030...

It's not bad to sell it at all, but you should really be honest and mention this problem in your advertisement.

This is a small community, so whoeever were to buy your accelerator card would no doubt come into contact with you again.

I thought ebay was the perfect place for selling crap that don't work, not the EAB Marketplace.

[s8n]

i will probably buy this card of his and he told me about the problem with the mmu.

Originally Posted by s8n

i will probably buy this card of his and he told me about the problem with the mmu.

That's my point exactly. as he made you aware of the problem it is not a issue, you cannot complain later to him as he told you about it.

I myself was interested in this card when it first appeared, I made a mental note to contact the seller but then stumbled upon this post mentioning problems with the card - it would have been a lot easier if he had mentioned this in the marketplace post originally, and would certainly have looked better.

I recommend he edit his marketplace post, or remove it and sell this thing on ebay with no guarantee other than the usual "I tested it, and it works" stuff that many adveritsers put.

[s8n]

Originally Posted by Bloodwych

The classicwb lite does get neglected in terms of testing time as I have an expanded A1200, therefore the full versions tend to receive my full attention. People's experiences are what help me identify problems which I’m always willing to address...however…

Didn't you read the advice on the webpage/web-manual in the tips section ? The reason I pointed you there was the low-chipram advice. It gives you tips on how to run programs using max mem.

The next light version will have a mouse selection utility (like mentioned in tips) to boot between a max mem and the normal lite setup. Probably should have been added a long time ago but no one ever mentioned issues with the lite.

There is no way it can be any lighter in its default state without losing key useful features. As it is, it boots with 1600K free which isn’t too bad. Even the prefs/env is only holding the absolute bare minimum files. To remove more programs like tools demon, look in the wb-startup drawer and move any icons you wish. Really though, it might as well just be a default wb 3 install.

Using the other methods outlined in the help file provided (including cli/RAD methods), stripping down the classicwb lite can be totally avoided.

youre quite right. now you got me thinking. i think that i completely missed the point and the goal of the classicwb. i thought that classicwb lite is THE most minimal setup. now i think that i could just be better of with the default wb3.1. but then again i would loose most of the programs that came with wb lite. BUT... i think that users should have the option of choosing which programs do they want. i mean... not everybody needs dpaint, dopus etc.
and i think that its quite a pain to completely delete certain programs on amiga, by that i mean programs that copies some files to various system dirs.well at least its a pain for pc newcomers and complete noobies.

[keropi]

@jim: you really make me look like a dirtbag... ANYONE that wanted my card would be informed about the mmu thing, like s8n ... also there is no evidence that this card is CRAP, I also have a m-tec 1230/28 that gives me probs, perhaps it is my amiga or my os3.9 setup, or both my cards or just the weather here...

[Bloodwych]

Yes, the Lite is a micro workbench for low mem A1200’s but it has to have something to make it better than a default install or what’s the point?

I’d say it is about the lightest install I can come up with while retaining good usability. As for programs, just remove any from the Programs directory you don’t require in WinUAE before transferring the package to your A1200 for install. Programs are not scattered throughout the workbench – just delete those you don’t want in the “Programs” directory and you’re good to go. You may also need to edit the popup-menu to remove links to them also.

Remember this is just a suggested setup, a head start to save you time – workbenches are very subjective and it will need refining by each user, ideally in an emulator (as suggested in the instructions) before transferring to a real Amiga. Ok, back to memory:

Consider this for a typical 2MB A1200, 1HD 1 FD:

Default Workbench 3.1 install: 1800K free (4 colour screenmode and icons)
ClassicWB Lite install: 1600K free (8 colour screenmode and icons)

These values are approx because buffers can differ for disk/hard drives.

That means the Lite is using 200K extra for its features and some of that 200K is due to the higher 8 colour icons and screenmode! I didn’t realise that it was only a few K out from running certain WHDload games. Come to think of it, clearing the userstartup wouldn’t have saved hardly any mem. Magic menu, toolsdaemon and smart refresh are all in the wbstartup drawer.

Anyway, I wish you the best of luck getting your A1200 up and running satisfactory, I think I’m all out of advice! Max possible mem is still best achieved using cli and wbrun as linked previously.

Thanks for making me aware of potential mem problems with certain whdload titles – I’ll see if I can improve the situation for the next release using a mouse selector, but it really is borderline when titles are working either side of 200K.

[s8n]

...and thank you and codetapper for all those lenghty answers to my questions!

[Bloodwych]

No problem, good luck if you decide to go for the expansion.

[Bloodwych]

s8n, not sure if you're still interested but the next ClassicWB LITE will solve memory issues:

http://eab.abime.net/showpost.php?p=174281&postcount=6