CD32 vs Floppy versions

[sokolovic]

Originally Posted by Akira

The thing with Liberation is that it was -conceived- as a CD32 title first.
Roadkill nor Guardian feel like they take any advantage of the CD32, just like they made it so it would easily work on A1200 too. AGA versions of whatever, is just the same old game with more stuff (not much). The other three were conversions from other hardware.

Liberation is in my opinion the only true CD32 game ever .

Liberation was conceived as an Amiga ECS title at first. The game was previewed with the name "Captive 2" only and the preview in the One speaks about the game running "fairly quickly on the A600".

The game was initiated in january 1992. I'm not even sure that Commodore knows at that time that they'll release an Amiga AGA CD based console in september 1993.

http://amr.abime.net/issue_337

[alexh]

Originally Posted by sokolovic

I'm not even sure that Commodore knows at that time that they'll release an Amiga AGA CD based console in september 1993.

Photo of a CD32 Akiko chip manufactured week 36 (September) 1993

[malko]

Hummm
Will look at the number on the chips differently from now. Thanks for the tip

[Amigajay]

Originally Posted by alexh

Photo of a CD32 Akiko chip manufactured week 36 (September) 1993

Think you missed the sarcasm in that one.

[sokolovic]

Originally Posted by Seiya

Street Fighter 2 and Super Street Fighter 2 Series

I can't see what would be impossible to achieve to make a decent conversion of these games on the Amiga, let alone on the CD32.

If your answer is "because US Gold didn't make a decent conversion", just have a look at Elfmania or Shadow Fighter on a basic ECS Amiga (and just have a look at the whole US Gold catalog of Amiga games...)

and look at the staff roll of SF2 on SNES, MD or PC-Engine and compare it to the Amiga version

Staff on console :
http://capcom.wikia.com/wiki/Street_Fighter_II
Staff on the Amiga :
http://hol.abime.net/2137

[malko]

[Amigajay]

SF2 as a game itself intact is impossible without the 2mb ram needed to store all the animation frames on an A500, but the game style is proved as doable by many fighting games since, we all know the best Amiga games are original Amiga games to take advantage of the hardware, the New Challengers release at least did it right by reducing the size of the players to get a playable game despite the poor gfx on the A500/A1200, whilst the worst port of all was SSF2T which didnt even try to accomadate the Amigas hardware, more or less the PC version ported.

[idrougge]

Originally Posted by sokolovic

I can't see what would be impossible to achieve to make a decent conversion of these games on the Amiga, let alone on the CD32.

No-one said anything about decent.

Fact: The CD32 has too few sprites with too small size to handle large SF2-style sprites.
Fact: The CD32 blitter and CPU aren't fast enough to handle large SF2-style bobs.
Fact: The compromise is to shrink the characters and use fewer colours.
Fact: The SNES has 256 colours and can use them all without breaking a sweat.
Fact: The CD32 costs twice as much as the SNES. It should not use half the colours or half the size of the characters.

[Amiga1992]

always things like "Elfmania" pop up in the SF2 conversation by the disgruntled Amiga user who refuses to acknowledge the weaknesses of the platform.
It is evident by that game, that all the flashy techy shit happening did not allow for an actually decently playable game to happen. Elfmania is one of the worst "fighting" games I have ever -played-. Who cares how it looks?

Like idrougge said tehre are compromises. To me the best fighting game on Amiga is Super Street Fighter 2. Sure, looks a bit poopy, but the gameplay is -spot on-.
It's not a SNES or MEgadrive version though. It looks and sounds absolutely horrid.

[sokolovic]

I've read another thing by another coder that was saying the opposite.

Again : http://obligement.free.fr/articles/a...kombat_aga.php

Bref, je cherche toujours à comprendre comment ils ont fait pour ne pas avoir une version originale fluide de ce jeu sur Amiga (et je ne parle pas non plus de la conversion de Street Fighter 2)

"In short, I'm still looking to understand how they did not made a smooth original version of this game on the Amiga (and I don't speak either of the SF2 conversion)."

and from the same, on another french forum :

techniquement parlant, et mis à part les limitations de mémoire comme le signale Gibs, l’amiga peut sans problème soutenir la comparaison avec les consoles.

"technically speaking, and except for the memory limitations reported by Gibs, the amiga can easily support the comparison with the consoles."

Maybe he's a liar thought, of course. Who can seriously trust a frenchman ?

Edit : Akira, are you seriously repproaching to a team of six finnish guys (working for their first game in this industry) to haven't made a better fighting Vs game with less ressources, budget and support than 40 japanese working for one of the greatest and wealthiest VG company in adapting on console their finest fighting VS game at that time ?
Lolol.

[Retro1234]

CD32 could do 32 colour street fighter 2 with sprites the size of world warriors version

Your talking about two large graphics on screen plus the fire balls - but you split the Characters into smaller parts - look at how many characters are on screen in Final Fight on
68000 now think about 68020 plus no tile scrolling think about it of course its possible.

[Seiya]

Originally Posted by dirk_the_daring

Nope, indeed there is a disk version that only needs an OCS machine[/IMG]

well, maybe it was better to say that it is esclusive for Amiga

Originally Posted by Retro1234

CD32 could do 32 colour street fighter 2 with sprites the size of world warriors version

Your talking about two large graphics on screen plus the fire balls - but you split the Characters into smaller parts - look at how many characters are on screen in Final Fight on
68000 now think about 68020 plus no tile scrolling think about it of course its possible.

ok, but i'd like to see in action this features or some demos that show it

[idrougge]

Originally Posted by Retro1234

CD32 could do 32 colour street fighter 2 with sprites the size of world warriors version

In which case it isn't as powerful as the 16-bit consoles. They didn't limit themselves to 32 colours.

Your talking about two large graphics on screen plus the fire balls - but you split the Characters into smaller parts - look at how many characters are on screen in Final Fight on
68000 now think about 68020 plus no tile scrolling think about it of course its possible.

We can talk until we die about what's possible, but history has proven that if it is possible, it is not possible within the limits of what is practical in terms of time and effort.

[Retro1234]

Originally Posted by idrougge

In which case it isn't as powerful as the 16-bit consoles. They didn't limit themselves to 32 colours.



We can talk until we die about what's possible, but history has proven that if it is possible, it is not possible within the limits of what is practical in terms of time and effort.

So many times you hear this and that is possible on Amiga but what isn't remembered is that its time consuming and quicker to produce such things on a console.

[donnie]

Originally Posted by idrougge

No-one said anything about decent.

Fact: The CD32 has too few sprites with too small size to handle large SF2-style sprites.
Fact: The CD32 blitter and CPU aren't fast enough to handle large SF2-style bobs.
Fact: The compromise is to shrink the characters and use fewer colours.
Fact: The SNES has 256 colours and can use them all without breaking a sweat.
Fact: The CD32 costs twice as much as the SNES. It should not use half the colours or half the size of the characters.

all arcade ports of that era are compromises.

and cd32 has cd unit.

[donnie]

Originally Posted by Akira

always things like "Elfmania" pop up in the SF2 conversation by the disgruntled Amiga user who refuses to acknowledge the weaknesses of the platform.
It is evident by that game, that all the flashy techy shit happening did not allow for an actually decently playable game to happen. Elfmania is one of the worst "fighting" games I have ever -played-. Who cares how it looks?

Like idrougge said tehre are compromises. To me the best fighting game on Amiga is Super Street Fighter 2. Sure, looks a bit poopy, but the gameplay is -spot on-.
It's not a SNES or MEgadrive version though. It looks and sounds absolutely horrid.

How many non japanese fighters are worth mentioning. Non? or maybe killer instinct or mk. I dunno i hate the genre.

But the reality is almost an 100% an Japanese affair.

[Gzegzolka]

It seems that this topic start to going into other direction than it's subject title. Personally I enjoy Elfmania, also Fightin'Spirit and Shadow Figter are awesome.

[Glen M]

Fightin' Spirit shows that an AGA machine can do a proper fighting game with large characters, smooth animation and even background animations. The ports of SF2 are lazy and crap. Mortal Kombat ports are fine and show it can be done. Fightin' Spirit shows how it should be done and SF2 shows you how to money grab based on games name only.

I got a CD32 a year or so after getting my 1200 when I was a kid and I admit I was disappointed. I remember arguing with friends at the time sticking up for my CD32 when they had playstations. I'd show them microcosm or roadkill to prove my we console can do an FMV intro too. In my heart though I knew she was underpowered compared to Sonys machine but to suggest the CD32 is underpowered compared to the Mega Drive or SNES, I'm sorry I do not accept it. I'd urge you to pickup some games developed on Amiga and ported to SNES and Mega Drive and then tell me its under powered. In all cases the Amiga version is on power or ahead of the competition. Games coming the other way are generally poor ports. In my opinion this is caused by the one company trying to port to Atari, Amiga, C64 or whatever. The Sega games ports are laughable on the Amiga. They may as well be spectrum ports with more colours. Outrun is a really good example of a piss poor port whereas Lotus is a good example of a proper game. Its not hard to image Lotus with a couple more car sprites, alternative routes and hey ho you've got outrun! Don't start me on platformers as all European Platformers suck ass and the lack of joypads and being forced to push up to jump just ruins a platformer for me. Japanese platforms are the best, hands down, but there is nothing technically that I don't think A500 could not do to run Mario or Sonic. The software houses didn't have the talent to create that type of game.

I am digressing slightly here but to bring it back to CD32 it was sortof a the demon of its own demise. It was a A1200 with an extra chip that to be honest didn't do much. Commodore were on their knees and the software houses new it. Why develop a game for new hardware which is actually just repacked 1200 which is just a slightly upgraded 500 so lets grab that 500 game off the self, stick it on a CD and release it. Probably won't sell a lot but who cares its uber cheap to produce. Some folks got behind it a bit and put on a CD soundtrack or an intro which was all the craze at the time. Then the few sat up and actually tried to make something for it. Gloom and Alien Breed 3D use Akiko and that helps a bit but its still a poor experience on the stock hardware. In my opinion the CD32 should have shipped with 4mb of fast ram aswell as the 2mb of chip. That would have helped no end making it a different amiga. With the more ram you'd have got more software houses interested in developing a better game for it. As it was it was an Amiga Computer in a console case, it was a C64GS just not as bad.

[Amiga1992]

Originally Posted by Glen M

Fightin' Spirit shows that an AGA machine can do a proper fighting game with large characters, smooth animation and even background animations.

You forgot the most important part, lacking in all these "tech demos": decent gameplay

But yeah get back on topic.

[Glen M]

Originally Posted by Akira

You forgot the most important part, lacking in all these "tech demos": decent gameplay

But yeah get back on topic.

I think Fightin Spirit is a great game.

In terms of the topic and CD32 vs Floppy versions I actually Frontier is a good example of small tweeks between the versions. The CD32 version I believe has larger cities with windmills. A minimal upgrade but a difference nonetheless and shows a developer showing some interest. I think it also removed the copy protection cause who can copy a CD....