The Commodore brand

[Amiga1992]

These guys are off to milk the C64 cow like no other. This smells like Amiga Inc. to me, only worse.

I didn;t buy into any of Amiga's shit before, I won't buy into any shit for the C64.

[Bloodwych]

Another article here, wow, they're really going for publicity.

This is wrong.

[IFW]

Leech your c64 games and emulators... while you can for free

[Unknown_K]

Originally posted by IFW
Leech your c64 games and emulators... while you can for free

If your a collector I say stock up on the real boxed games since they are cheap these days (everybody downloads the free image). Once the rom/image sites go away the originals will go up in value.

[Twistin'Ghost]

Do these f*cks really think people are going to pay for this stuff the way they do new releases? I think that the sudden *boom* interest that they see will dissipate once they have wiped out all of the fan sites. They will kill the scene, lose their investment, then the existing scene will have to start all over again. (sigh)

[Unknown_K]

Originally posted by Twistin'Ghost
Do these f*cks really think people are going to pay for this stuff the way they do new releases? I think that the sudden *boom* interest that they see will dissipate once they have wiped out all of the fan sites. They will kill the scene, lose their investment, then the existing scene will have to start all over again. (sigh)

I think tulip wants to sell some retro game hardware, like that one company that fit 20 games into an atari 2600 looking joystick that plugs directly into the tv. Its a novelty kind of thing. Nobody is thinking of charging for game images for c64 era hardware.


The scene isnt much different the the PC ***** thing, games are traded all over , its just that the commodore crowd does it more in the open since nobody really tries to prosecute them.

[Dizzy]

When ESCom took over C= they had the same plan to make c64 hardware, but failed, who want to pay truckload of money for a "new" c64 when you can get a used cheap.

Remember TULIP don't own the right to the games, it belongs to the company who made them, and most of them are dead. So it would still be possible to download old C64 games, no matter what TULIP might say, they would not win any lawsuit.

The only way to sell new C64 games would be to port them to mobilphones, or the GBA.
The project will never succed, it will kill the TULIP company, but who cares, another stupid pc-company death..

[7-Zark-7]

Originally posted by Twistin'Ghost
Do these f*cks really think people are going to pay for this stuff the way they do new releases? I think that the sudden *boom* interest that they see will dissipate once they have wiped out all of the fan sites. They will kill the scene, lose their investment, then the existing scene will have to start all over again. (sigh)

Their arrogance is astounding. To actually own the rights to so little,(a brand name?),& yet go waiving legal sticks at fanssites, is the height of hypocrisy!

Of course it'd probably cause a Back to the future situation, the C64 scene would be forced to go underground like the old days- except it'd look a tad suspicious if we were all caught in the school grounds swapping CD's of C64 d/l's!
Even more difficult given one of my old school's has been torn down & replaced by a church!

[Twistin'Ghost]

Originally posted by 7-Zark-7
Their arrogance is astounding. To actually own the rights to so little,(a brand name?),& yet go waiving legal sticks at fanssites, is the height of hypocrisy!

Height of greed, more like.

Originally posted by 7-Zark-7
Of course it'd probably cause a Back to the future situation, the C64 scene would be forced to go underground like the old days- except it'd look a tad suspicious if we were all caught in the school grounds swapping CD's of C64 d/l's!
Even more difficult given one of my old school's has been torn down & replaced by a church!

If kids could only be that cool. Actually, a remixed underground might boost retrogaming street cred, so it could feasibly backfire on them anyway. Unless that very underground scene generated enough cult interest to create a buzz amongst konsumer kiddies. This is all too paradoxical to consider (sober, at least...)

[7-Zark-7]

Another quote & news from the Lemon Forum....:suspiciou

"Another news story....

Ironstone -- the company that has licensed the Commodore 64 brand from Tulip Computers -- has confirmed that it is planning on charging a subscription fee for access to C64 resources, in a bid to help the company become "the guardian angel" of the brand.

The Commodore 64, which according to the Guinness Book of Records is still the best selling computer ever, was launched in the early eighties alongside classic home computer systems such as the BBC Micro model B and the Sinclair Spectrum. Today the brand is kept alive by some 6 million enthusiasts in a vibrant online community.

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When Tulip announced the licence deal with Ironstone last week, user groups were up in arms, fearing that the new owners would threaten legal action and shut them down in an attempt to drive traffic and sales to 'official' resources.

Darren Melbourne, creative director at Ironstone Partners, admits that a subscription-based portal is on the cards, but he is keen to convey to the C64 community that Ironstone is not their enemy. "We want to become the guardian angel of the brand," said Melbourne, who first wanted to license the C64 brand in 1997. "We have a huge, dedicated fan base who are interested in keeping this machine alive. At some point in the future, we will probably offer a subscription model."

As part of the plan, Ironstone is also changing the C64 logo -- trademarked logos play an important part in the protection of intellectual property and licensing. Melbourne said the logo had changed to differentiate between the old and new C64 products: "The Commodore and C64 logo has been slightly changed. It retains 90 percent familiarity with the old one, but it has been revised and all new Commodore-branded Web sites and products will have the new logo."

Melbourne claims that the only people that have to worry about legal action are those companies that are "abusing" the brand. "There are big companies on the high street selling C64 emulators and games and they shouldn't be doing that. Those are the kind of people we are going to stop," said Melbourne, who is an ex-C64 developer and a regular visitor to the specialist sites: "Am I going to close down sites like Lemon64 after they have put seven years of work into building the site? No way. I have been reading it for the past few years and it is fantastic."

Melbourne even hinted that Ironstone would somehow 'help' sites that are struggling for survival: "Fan sites are inviting donations and having problems. Without them, the C64 would have died out 10 years ago, and our immediate goal is to try and help them."

Legal experts say Ironstone would have a problem on its hands if it did intend to take action against the C64 community, because the Commodore brand has been left dormant for so long. Simon Briskman, communications and technology partner at law firm Olswang, said that because the name Commodore hasn't been traded under for so long: "If other people have picked up the name and have been trading with it, [Commodore] will not be able to enforce its rights".

Briskman said that, regardless of Ironstones intentions, controlling the brand will not be clear cut: "In an area where there are competing interests between the user groups and the company, I suspect they will have to get into a dialogue in every case."

Melbourne said he is committed to ensuring that Ironstone and the new C64 portal will be friends with the existing community of fan sites: "We have been around the block with this machine a few times -- we were making games for it 20 years ago -- so the very last thing we want to do now is make enemies."
_________________
******LeeT TickerTape Issue Six*******

".................

Fan sites have "nothing to fear",& yet they're talking about a "subscription model", what for,presumably games I suppose?

[IFW]

Obviously, have no doubt about that for a single second.
"All the good people who are going to pay are our friends"

If you remember the "unathorized" press release, it clearly stated they want to turn a non-paying free community into a milking machine with almost these words.
Funny thing is that the so called "unathorized press release" have been passed onto other media, without much change and has not been withdrawn at all. Probably another mistake...

They are simply playing friendly on the community, while they are preparing to backstab them big time.
Reminds me of the settlers and conquerors who gave shiny things and stuff to the natives as a show of goodwill, until they could kill, exile or enslave them all.
It worked for centuries, if they are sheeps believing this friendship crap it is going to work now.
History repeats itself as usual, but since you have the advantage of knowing history this time you can do against it happening again.

Actually I find their good cop bad cop and now marbles to the natives tactics fairly arrogant, and those who buy into that deserve to suffer anyway.
It is also rather cynical to thank the community to keeping their forthcoming business alive, like a spit into their face and laugh.

[Amiga1992]

The sad thing is that a lot of people WILL give them cash. I see people who bought into Amiga Inc's shit, so this will be no different :P

[Antiriad]

Well, at the end of the day with ADSL about and private ftps a plenty, the fuckers can never take away the games from the C= enthusiasts.

Its all too late for these dumb fuck companies to jump on us Retro heads now!

[jmmijo]

It is just like what has been mentioned already, just milking the cash cow outta every last bit of money they can

[IFW]

Thinking of this one more word occured to me as well: MOB

We ask everyone to join our protective measures, and those who don't comply we shut down.
Money we get for protection will be spent on providing even more protection and shutting down even more people who don't want our protection.

The last time I've heard these things about was "The Sopranos", and even before that "The Godfather"
These are the exact same "protection methods" gangsters and organized crime utilizes for over a hundred years.

Well done.

Firstly I would like to say hello to everyone on the boards, Ive just come back to the amiga after a while away and Im loving it all over again.

Secondly I feel that I should comment on this discussion, I am employed in the IP profession and as such I feel that I am in a position to provide some information on this subject.

Without having looked into it too deeply it seems to me that Tulip own the Commodore Logo meaning a Trademark, they do not actually own any Commodore technology, aka a patent. Therefore their legal capabilities extend to preventing people from using the Commodore name and logo.

In a previous post it was posted that Gateway own the Amiga patents and they are expiring soon. I have access to worldwide patent databases and have looked up Amiga for fun, there are actually quite a few but they are in the name of Commodore. I can do further research to discover the owners at work during the week.

In Australia these patents are not due to expire for another 3 - 10 years as a patent lasts 20 years and most of the Commodore patents are from 1985 - 1992.

In short I do not believe that Tulip will be able to prevent websites from hosting Commodore games or emulators but merely from using the Commodore Logo. So the websites have nothing to worry about.

*An interesting note, most of the Commodore and Amiga patents are for processes rather than hardware and there are also a few business processes too.

[Dizzy]

Originally posted by Vicked
Firstly I would like to say hello to everyone on the boards, Ive just come back to the amiga after a while away and Im loving it all over again.

Secondly I feel that I should comment on this discussion, I am employed in the IP profession and as such I feel that I am in a position to provide some information on this subject.

Without having looked into it too deeply it seems to me that Tulip own the Commodore Logo meaning a Trademark, they do not actually own any Commodore technology, aka a patent. Therefore their legal capabilities extend to preventing people from using the Commodore name and logo.

In a previous post it was posted that Gateway own the Amiga patents and they are expiring soon. I have access to worldwide patent databases and have looked up Amiga for fun, there are actually quite a few but they are in the name of Commodore. I can do further research to discover the owners at work during the week.

In Australia these patents are not due to expire for another 3 - 10 years as a patent lasts 20 years and most of the Commodore patents are from 1985 - 1992.

In short I do not believe that Tulip will be able to prevent websites from hosting Commodore games or emulators but merely from using the Commodore Logo. So the websites have nothing to worry about.

*An interesting note, most of the Commodore and Amiga patents are for processes rather than hardware and there are also a few business processes too.

Agree, I think this is a storm in a glass of water.. Tulip might think they can stop the c64 scene, but they couldn't sue any games site, only for the misuse of logo and name.

[Antiriad]

Exactly as i said earlier. If the fan sites just remove the C= logo then theyll be fine.

You know it STILL hasnt been established if Tulip own the Commodore 64 name as well.

All their press releases have talked of Commodore only.

[jmmijo]

And Tulip may indeed be just assuming they own the sub-names as well like C64, C128, Vic20, and possibly the CBM business machines

[Unknown_K]

Originally posted by jmmijo
And Tulip may indeed be just assuming they own the sub-names as well like C64, C128, Vic20, and possibly the CBM business machines

If they can make people think they own all those names, and have cash to take people to court then they already won. It doesnt matter if your right or wrong, the winner is the guy with the most cash and lawers.