DCE Flicker Magic colour depth

alexh · 19 July 2010, 16:09

FYI that is a DCE Flicker Magic. It's design is only 16-bit RGB meaning that it cannot display all the colours that AGA (24-bit RGB) displays.

http://eab.abime.net/showpost.php?p=500134&postcount=12

fitzsteve · 19 July 2010, 16:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by alexh

FYI that is a DCE Flicker Magic. It's design is only 16-bit RGB meaning that it cannot display all the colours that AGA (24-bit RGB) displays.

http://eab.abime.net/showpost.php?p=500134&postcount=12

Thanks for the info alexh, I'm only using 256colour workbench and mainly want it to get rid of the flicker in interlaced screen modes.

I'll have to see how I get on with the AGA stuff. This is only an interim solution until I decide whether to get an Indi AGA or save up my pennies for a Picasso IV

Steve.

JuvUK · 21 July 2010, 20:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by alexh

FYI that is a DCE Flicker Magic. It's design is only 16-bit RGB meaning that it cannot display all the colours that AGA (24-bit RGB) displays.

http://eab.abime.net/showpost.php?p=500134&postcount=12

i am sooooo bored of hearing this, i have played AB3D2, Wing commander CD32, breathless, Zool AGA, UFO AGA in fact if you name an AGA title i've played it with one of these scan doublers in both a A1200 and an A4K and i have yet to see ANY display problems, unless you use a screen that displays ALL of the AGA colours at the same time you won't notice anything wrong

cheers, JuvUK

alexh · 21 July 2010, 22:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by JuvUK

i am sooooo bored of hearing this, i have played AB3D2, Wing commander CD32, breathless, Zool AGA, UFO AGA in fact if you name an AGA title i've played it with one of these scan doublers in both a A1200 and an A4K and i have yet to see ANY display problems

That's cos you don't see "problems" unless you are looking for them.

You only notice a difference in AGA mode. And then all that happens is that two very similar, subtle, colours are shown as one instead of two.

If you have nothing to compare it to side by side (or know what to look for) then you'll never notice the difference which is why there was no uproar when this product came out. You'll just put down the lack of colours on screen to being an old game.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JuvUK

unless you use a screen that displays ALL of the AGA colours at the same time you won't notice anything wrong

Rubbish. It doesn't work like that. RGB colour is reduced from 888 bit (256 shades of Red, Green & Blue) to 565 bit (32 shades of Red, 64 Green, 32 Blue). Display a picture that uses subtle shades of one colour (say skin colours, sky, smoke, grass etc.) and you'll see it.

JuvUK · 21 July 2010, 23:21

well whatever you say, all i can go on is personal experiance and with Wing Commander CD32 and AB3D2 where there are plenty of smoke and lights etc, i have never seen a problem, and talking to other people that have these they haven't seen any problems either, so while what you say is technically correct, in real world use you ain't gonna see it.

anyone ever seen a screenshot of these missing colours?

Quote:

Originally Posted by alexh

That's cos you don't see "problems" unless you are looking for them.

You only notice a difference in AGA mode. And then all that happens is that two very similar, subtle, colours are shown as one instead of two.

If you have nothing to compare it to side by side (or know what to look for) then you'll never notice the difference which is why there was no uproar when this product came out. You'll just put down the lack of colours on screen to being an old game.

Rubbish. It doesn't work like that. RGB colour is reduced from 888 bit (256 shades of Red, Green & Blue) to 565 bit (32 shades of Red, 64 Green, 32 Blue). Display a picture that uses subtle shades of one colour (say skin colours, sky, smoke, grass etc.) and you'll see it.

fitzsteve · 21 July 2010, 23:33

When I've got it up and running I'll take a couple of pictures to compare

AGA via Scart and AGA via the FF

alexh · 22 July 2010, 00:06

Keropi and I did some empirical experiments and took photos a few years ago showing the worst effects. It was using reproducible still images rather than games but that thread should still be here somewhere.

I'll find it.

JuvUK · 22 July 2010, 08:07

cool! thanks, i am interested to see this

@Steve,
can you do some in game AGA shots for comparison?

fitzsteve · 22 July 2010, 08:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by JuvUK

cool! thanks, i am interested to see this

@Steve,
can you do some in game AGA shots for comparison?

Sure will mate, but it wont be till the weekend as I have to re-solder the cable

Any game suggestions?

JuvUK · 22 July 2010, 09:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by fitzsteve

Sure will mate, but it wont be till the weekend as I have to re-solder the cable

Any game suggestions?

AB3D II? Breathless? ummm, Testament uummm maybe Nemac? Wing commander CD32 (install guide here http://amibay.com/showthread.php?t=7...wing+commander or here http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?...wing+commander)

any suggestions Alexh?

fitzsteve · 22 July 2010, 10:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by JuvUK

AB3D II? Breathless? ummm, Testament uummm maybe Nemac? Wing commander CD32 (install guide here http://amibay.com/showthread.php?t=7...wing+commander or here http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?...wing+commander)

any suggestions Alexh?

I'll try those, no problem - but AB3D II crashes on my 040 (after the title screen)

alexh · 22 July 2010, 12:04

They have to be games which make use of the AGA palette and not just OCS/ECS games which were patched and released as AGA titles.

Anything which has ultra fine colour AGA rasters might offer a good comparison. Maybe the backgrounds Zool AGA? Then again maybe not. Depends on how fine the colours were.

Like I said I used static images displayed in a picture viewer designed specifically to show up the problems. Colour gradients, Grass, smoke, B&W photos, skin tones, torch beams etc.

JuvUK · 22 July 2010, 12:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by alexh

They have to be games which make use of the AGA palette and not just OCS/ECS games which were patched and released as AGA titles.

Anything which has ultra fine colour AGA rasters might offer a good comparison. Maybe the backgrounds Zool AGA? Depends on how fine the colours were.

Like I said I used static images displayed in a picture viewer designed specifically to show up the problems. Colour gradients, Grass, smoke, skin tones, torch beams etc.

i thought AB3D II, Breathless and Wing Commander CD32 were all real AGA games?
plus isn't it a bit harsh running something designed to do nothing but show off a fault

alexh · 22 July 2010, 12:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by JuvUK

isn't it a bit harsh running something designed to do nothing but show off a fault

I don't think so. They were easily reproducible tests which took 2 minutes to generate in paint-shop-pro as opposed to potentially hours comparing lots of games.

JuvUK · 22 July 2010, 12:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by alexh

I don't think so. They were easily reproducible tests which took 2 minutes to generate in paint-shop-pro as opposed to potentially hours comparing lots of games.

i guess it's down to useage, i personally am not in the habit of staring at static images while using a miggy

alexh · 22 July 2010, 12:28

The static nature of the images is not the point. They were just easy to make to show the problem.

If I had the time / interest I could have produced a scrolling AGA demo designed specifically to use the colour bits which cannot be differentiated when you use this device.

fitzsteve · 22 July 2010, 12:29

Any chance a mod can split this discussion from the sale thread and create a new thread in prb.hardware?

Cheers

Graham Humphrey · 22 July 2010, 23:10

Relevant posts split from this thread (with thanks to Prowler for helping me to comprehend just what is going on here)

19 July 2010, 16:09	#1
alexh Thalion Webshrine Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Oxford Posts: 14,409	DCE Flicker Magic colour depth FYI that is a DCE Flicker Magic. It's design is only 16-bit RGB meaning that it cannot display all the colours that AGA (24-bit RGB) displays. http://eab.abime.net/showpost.php?p=500134&postcount=12 Last edited by alexh; 19 July 2010 at 16:15.

22 July 2010, 12:04	#12
alexh Thalion Webshrine Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Oxford Posts: 14,409	They have to be games which make use of the AGA palette and not just OCS/ECS games which were patched and released as AGA titles. Anything which has ultra fine colour AGA rasters might offer a good comparison. Maybe the backgrounds Zool AGA? Then again maybe not. Depends on how fine the colours were. Like I said I used static images displayed in a picture viewer designed specifically to show up the problems. Colour gradients, Grass, smoke, B&W photos, skin tones, torch beams etc. Last edited by alexh; 22 July 2010 at 12:10.

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21 July 2010, 23:33	#6
fitzsteve Professional slacker! Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Kent, UK Age: 44 Posts: 6,683	When I've got it up and running I'll take a couple of pictures to compare AGA via Scart and AGA via the FF

22 July 2010, 00:06	#7
alexh Thalion Webshrine Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Oxford Posts: 14,409	Keropi and I did some empirical experiments and took photos a few years ago showing the worst effects. It was using reproducible still images rather than games but that thread should still be here somewhere. I'll find it.

22 July 2010, 08:07	#8
JuvUK Registered User Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Cheltenham/UK Age: 52 Posts: 312	cool! thanks, i am interested to see this @Steve, can you do some in game AGA shots for comparison?

22 July 2010, 12:28	#16
alexh Thalion Webshrine Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Oxford Posts: 14,409	The static nature of the images is not the point. They were just easy to make to show the problem. If I had the time / interest I could have produced a scrolling AGA demo designed specifically to use the colour bits which cannot be differentiated when you use this device.

22 July 2010, 12:29	#17
fitzsteve Professional slacker! Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Kent, UK Age: 44 Posts: 6,683	Any chance a mod can split this discussion from the sale thread and create a new thread in prb.hardware? Cheers

22 July 2010, 23:10	#18
Graham Humphrey Moderator Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Norwich, Norfolk, UK Age: 37 Posts: 11,167	Relevant posts split from this thread (with thanks to Prowler for helping me to comprehend just what is going on here)

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