Piracy/Cracked Games - Page 5

mr.spiv · 23 September 2006, 18:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by andy2004

Hi Mr Spiv great fan of your StoneCracker cruncher for the amiga

, just 1 question. What was the last version you wrote? I have the 4.10.3 Professional.

I think that was the lastest version on Amiga. There were some random stc.library updates later to fix few issues..

andy2004 · 25 September 2006, 18:11

thanks for the reply, i downloaded the last stc.library i think from your webpage 3.43 (1 Mar 1996) for 68020+ cpu.
So what other computers did u write StoneCracker for? are there any plans to bring it to the PC?

mr.spiv · 26 September 2006, 18:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by andy2004

thanks for the reply, i downloaded the last stc.library i think from your webpage 3.43 (1 Mar 1996) for 68020+ cpu.
So what other computers did u write StoneCracker for? are there any plans to bring it to the PC?

No plans for PC.. don't even own one

There was a version of STC (under different name tho) for a handheld console called GP32..

guru64 · 30 September 2006, 23:39

^Nobody has to feel guilty because he copied games from his friends.
THAT didn't kill the Amiga. The ONLY thing that killed the Amiga were stupid company execs who constantly failed to bring up a competetive new Amiga system.
Amiga was ahead of its time a lot with it's awesome custom chips etc. ...but as time went by the Company just failed to compete to standard PCs.

I still love my

Amigas and the cool time it gave me from '87 to around '95 when I finally dedicated more time with PCs which had by that time overtaken Amiga tech by far.

Amiga tech was simply also way too expensive. You could buy a PC Harddisk for a few bucks, but the same stuff for Amiga cost a fortune

It was and is a great machine, and will always stay in my heart.

-Owner of 2xA500, 1xA1200, 1xA2500/30

and I still love to play the games on UAE. currently Hired Guns and others...

And YES I had like 3 ShoeBoxes of Amiga Floppies copied besides 10-15 Originals, and was an active Member of Cracking scene.

PS. On 2nd opinion the copying may have hurt gamecompanies. Since I was ~15 years old I didn't think twice when getting a new crack, and I don't have a bad feeling about it. Older people with an income should of course be more responsible. Maybe the majority of Amiga users were kids back then? I don't know. Now, since I got my own cash, I usually buy the games that I really like to play, but I still use cracks sometimes. Having a box, manual, and those goodies makes playing a game much more enjoyable, and you also spend much more time with something you bought.

Phantasm · 01 October 2006, 21:38

I used to be an amiga cracker ran a fairly successful bbs for about 3 years, and I've also worked in the games industry (but not any longer).

I dont regret doing the cracking, I always did it for the challenge and it was fun.

I did however start off supporting my modem trading habbit by selling the stuff I downloaded to the local market trader.

Thats the only thing I regret. I stopped doing that as soon as I was about to afford to support my phone bill by myself.

I still dont buy any software but i'm not involved in any cracking these days (apart from maybe the odd bit for my own personal use).

Brass · 17 October 2006, 07:02

I didnt have any pirated games on a perminant basis.

I had the occasional stuff thrown at me, had a look at it and if it wasnt my style which you know after about 1/2 hour it would get erased; however if it was good and worth spending the money on I'd buy it - I had my 1st job then and was earning reasonable money.

I would not pirate software from currently active software houses - but can not see the harm if the company is now defunct ( we are talking 2006 still existing ) companies here.

From my perspective if the software house is now gone and its not being sold on the market there is no one to pay money to for it.

I am more than willing to listen to arguments one way or the other.

JonSick · 17 October 2006, 10:08

I like many others here had about 20-30 original games and then over 120 cracked games.

Did I ever play all of em? Nope! I remember playing alien breed and monkey island so much I bought them both original... alien breed wouldn't let me put on infinate lives and I got pissed off using the code wheel every time on monkey island, so I went back to using the crax - kept the originals nice and clean though!

I'm a creative person myself - I play in metal bands. With metal, particularly black and death metal, the days of charging £10 for an underground band CD are long since gone. Hell, even asking £2 for a metal band's cd-r will always lead to nothing. People these days would rather use that £2 on another pint than your crummy CD. In any case, why should they listen to you?

With metal the only way you get yourself known is to put many hours of slaving into creating your 8-track CD that has to sound good, decent artwork, hours and hours in front of your PC with four cd-writers attached and just burning off copy after copy. But what do you do? You gotta give it away free! If you don't you'll be going home with them cd-rs forever! We're a fairly popular band now - nowhere near sepultura stakes - but doing very well and we're in the unique position of actually being able to charge for our cd now, but we know full well that someone will buy our cd (for £3) and will copy it for friends, make it available on their P2P shares... even in the likes of Germany and Hungary, there are people offering rip-offs of our disk. We don't mind though... why? Because its the only way more and more people will hear us and be interested in us!

Its the same with the amiga! There was LOADS of great games readily available. For most people the biggest sway from things like the PC, Mac and Atari was because they could get tonnes of quality games that were much better than their counterparts on an amiga computer!

Piracy didn't kill the amiga. It was the millions of blunders by CBM that killed the amiga then the tarts that got hold of it afterwards (escom, gateway, etc).

This is another reason why a used a1200 can still command up to £90 for an absolutely pristine in-box unit, stock! Because there is great software still available! The most I've seen things like megadrive or SNES consoles go for is about £10... Those asking £25 for a snes are still left with it!

Game manufacturers have it ALL wrong. I would like an xbox-360! Really would. But paying £50 for a game? Sod the hell off!!!

These companies would make far more by making the consoles a lot more expensive, but then the games dirt cheap! If I could buy a 360 for, say, £359, but then alll the games were £10 each, would that not be better?

I pirated games because I was young and didn't have the money to blow £30 a twist on amiga games! I did where I could, or wanted to, but otherwise the lure of £1 per disk at the car booty, or free off my mates, did wonders!

I used to go with a few friends of mine. We used to go and buy some blank floppies for about £5 per ten, prolly bought about 20 each, then we used to go to the car booty, buy about 3 or 4 games each, come back to mine and copy each others! The pirate got wind of this, worked out what we were doing, and even HE got pissy! Even though he was making about £30 a week off us combined! But anyway, he could also get any game we wanted! We could ask him for it one week and he'd have it the next week! Still the same price of £1 per disk - somehing that wasn't possible with shops.

So lets narrow it down.

Pirates could in general get you any game you wanted within a week- shops couldn't
Pirates only charged maximum £1 a disk - shops didn't
Pirates understood the market: young kids whose parents weren't gonna lay £30 a week pocket money on them every week - shops were clueless to this
Pirates were able to provide games in most cases with decent trainers on them for lame players like me - shops didn't and neither did software houses.
Pirates were also the reason I would guess that most people bought amigas - Shop's only sold them to whoever came in.
Pirate and PD groups also promoted the amiga - I haven't yet seen an advert for amiga, apart from shop ones. Did CBM ever even do this?
Pirates supported their software: If your disk was faulty, they would happily replace it and give you another game on top as an apology - shops never wanted to know.
If my pirated disk ever did develop a fault, I could just go get another copy of one of my mates. My bloodnet disk 8 is still faulty, neither the shop or software house wanted to know! I ended up buying a pirate copy.
I could back up my pirate games - no chance with original games! Meaning I'd always have a copy somewhere or another!

So in actual fact, pirates were more educated in the market and knew their target audience better than these software houses or CBM! Same as now! I know the metal markets! I know its a full on waste of time to try promoting my music in the local bhangra arts center! I know I'd be much better off promoting it down the camden underworld!!!

If CBM had more of a clue about their target audiences and promoted their machine as such, they probably would be still around today!!! Possibly not amiga, but CBM definately!

Jon

Just as a quickie edit: I actually do some side-work in console repairs these days, my biggest draw being installing chips to playstation 2s and xbox 360s. I know why people are installing these chips, I know full well! Fact is they bring me the chip and instructions I'll do the soldering and as far as I'm concerned, they want to play the imported games. The fact that I know all too well that they're going off to blockbuster to rent some games a dvd-r em is neither here nor there. But I tell you 99% of the guys who ask me to do this are young kids! Kids cannot afford £50 a game! Parents can't afford £50 a game! The only people who can are either rich rap starts or parents/25-30 yr olds with a combined income of over £100kpa!

I understand this and I know nothing about consoles! Why doesn't nintendo or any of the other software houses know this?

ufo · 10 December 2011, 04:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galahad/FLT

Another thing that didn't help, is the fact that the Amiga used disks.

Today, I have bought quite a few PS2 originals, but I don't buy them at full price, I wait until they drop in price as an exchange game.

Cartridges and DVD's are relatively easy to check, a disk isn't.

Lots of things buggered up the Amiga, Commodore being the major factor.

You gave me an interesting thought here Galahad.

If the Amiga had gotten to grips with the CD format earlier than it actually did, do you think it would have stood a better chance at surviving?

And I don't mean the CD32 specifically. I mean if we had seen an A500, A500+ or A600 with a CD drive which could run games.

It appeared that when they were cutting their teeth with CDs, they were so busy trying to push the boundaries of what they had through big fancy video driven games/graphics and full blown speech that a single game took almost all of their effort and time. Compare the number of releases on CD32 even against the A1200 (AGA) releases.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonSick

If my pirated disk ever did develop a fault, I could just go get another copy of one of my mates. My bloodnet disk 8 is still faulty, neither the shop or software house wanted to know! I ended up buying a pirate copy.
I could back up my pirate games - no chance with original games! Meaning I'd always have a copy somewhere or another!

Nothing to do with the original topic but my Bloodnet Disk 8 was also faulty, AFAIK I posted mine back to them and they replaced it - pretty sure they'd mentioned it was a faulty batch or something like that.

It took them so long though (around a month I think) to get back to me with it, that in the meantime I gave up on them and picked up a copied disk 8 instead!

synchro · 20 December 2011, 07:40

I created the Pure Collection and the Assimilation CD's....Bit like the Blobbys but not as infamous

I never actually cracked a game just made the menu's and compiled the collection.
Any games i really liked i bought...i had a huge collection and still do of real amiga games..

Quote:

Piracy made the C-64 and it also made the Amiga

Have to agree with that...Commodore caused a storm for actually quoting in a magazine that The ability to copy games sells amigas

Conundrum · 21 December 2011, 11:44

I abide by the golden rule:

But to be fair, looking back to those days, I regret more having pirated amiga games then I do now with modern pc games, mostly because the amiga developers deserved a lot more the support. It's true there was a lot of rubbish games, but the good ones were pure gold and it felt amazing how most of 'em were made by like, 5 or 6 guys locked in basement, programming all day. Back then making games was more of a labour of love, and pleasure for game making, than a matter of budget, milestones, resources and shareholders interests, as it is today. Anyone could make great games at home as long as you were a good programmer. So it makes me feel kinda bad that studios like Sensible Software or the Bitmap Bros ended up going nowhere. Then again there was also the american market issue which both commodore and most british-based devs were never able to solve.

synchro · 21 December 2011, 13:44

Personally i think commodore themselves are mostly to blame for thier own demise...We wanted to play games like Doom and have cd rom on our amigas. we needed more ram and the ability to expand ( at reasonable prices ) but commodore were having non of it.

The mags were full of interviews with David Pleasance with questions like....We get a lot of letters saying if the amiga does not get CDROM and expandability the amiga could die

His usual response was usually ...Thats rubbish..

The Amiga 4000 at around $3,000 was just a stupid price when you could obtain a DX66 PC for around £500...Amiga Accelerater cards were selling for £290 odd pounds and still no cd rom...

My point is basicly what was stated above in another post...Piracy had a great hand in selling amigas but in my opinion it was commodore who thought they were untouchable in the computer market.....They would not listen to thier customer needs and out priced themselves out of the market....

Piracy did not kill the Amiga..... Commodore did that all by themselves....

wilshy · 21 December 2011, 13:50

I think you will find that David Pleasance was one of the true leaders of Commodore. He had the only profitable arm of Commodore, from memory and was working from a massively limited budget so of course he was going to big up the product that was selling rather than say that the Amiga needed to go in a different direction. It would be commercial suicide to state anything other than "our current product is where we need to be with development into newer products in the future".

Commodore UK didn't kill the Amiga. The parent company was fully responsible.

synchro · 21 December 2011, 13:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by wilshy

I think you will find that David Pleasance was one of the true leaders of Commodore. He had the only profitable arm of Commodore, from memory and was working from a massively limited budget so of course he was going to big up the product that was selling rather than say that the Amiga needed to go in a different direction. It would be commercial suicide to state anything other than "our current product is where we need to be with development into newer products in the future".

Commodore UK didn't kill the Amiga. The parent company was fully responsible.

He may well have been told what to do or say but i remember well the interviews and what was written......ok you can never believe the papers i guess...

As for commodore UK...Not disputing that....i did say "Commodore" meaning whoever pulled the strings

stevsurv · 21 December 2011, 15:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by synchro

He may well have been told what to do or say but i remember well the interviews and what was written......ok you can never believe the papers i guess...

As for commodore UK...Not disputing that....i did say "Commodore" meaning whoever pulled the strings

Yes.. It was commodore USA that slaughtered the Amiga.

Don't think they were pulling strings but something else

synchro · 21 December 2011, 18:09

Quote:

Don't think they were pulling strings but something else

LOL !! ye agreed on that

mrbob2 · 26 December 2011, 23:38

It wasnt commodore that killed the amiga. Its was simply technology.

Its like saying is the spectrum 48k had a floppy drive could it have competed against the amiga?

no.

The 80s were about computers that had alll the components inside the keyboard, Commodore made everything, the PC was just a collection of random components made by dedicated component manufacturers, the amiga had a limited lifespan even from its birth. Everyone i knew owned an amiga 500, a few had a A1200 and 99% played games on it. When the megadrive came out and eventually psx, they played better games better gfx for half the price and all you did was whack in a game. For the amiga to compete it had to become a pc, we already had a pc so it was doomed. Nobody owns the PC, its a mutant of electronics.

Galahad/FLT · 27 December 2011, 00:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrbob2

It wasnt commodore that killed the amiga. Its was simply technology.

Its like saying is the spectrum 48k had a floppy drive could it have competed against the amiga?

no.

The 80s were about computers that had alll the components inside the keyboard, Commodore made everything, the PC was just a collection of random components made by dedicated component manufacturers, the amiga had a limited lifespan even from its birth. Everyone i knew owned an amiga 500, a few had a A1200 and 99% played games on it. When the megadrive came out and eventually psx, they played better games better gfx for half the price and all you did was whack in a game. For the amiga to compete it had to become a pc, we already had a pc so it was doomed. Nobody owns the PC, its a mutant of electronics.

Tell that to Apple!

Fact is, if Commodore gave the Amiga the technological upgrade it needed, i.e. ignore AGA and go straight to AAA, chances are, the Amiga would have continued for quite a bit longer.

Development on Amiga for the smaller developers was cheap, a decent game got good sales, all it needed was for Commodore to not rest on their laurels and bring the Amiga up to date.

They didn't, and the rest is history. That the Amiga was an all in one solution in one box is irrelevant, because thats exactly what the PS3 and 360 are today.

prowler · 27 December 2011, 00:45

Please can we get back on topic in this thread? What caused Commodore's demise has been discussed ad nauseam elsewhere.

Galahad/FLT · 27 December 2011, 01:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by prowler

Please can we get back on topic in this thread? What caused Commodore's demise has been discussed ad nauseam elsewhere.

Er, mate, it is on topic!

Someone mentioned piracy/cracked games as being the problem of the Amigas demise, others pointed out that it was more than that.

Struggling to see how this isn't on topic

prowler · 27 December 2011, 01:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galahad/FLT

others pointed out that it was more than that.

That's where it gets borderline. It goes off-topic when this starts to become the focus.

30 September 2006, 23:39	#84
guru64 Oldskool God Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: europe Posts: 28	^Nobody has to feel guilty because he copied games from his friends. THAT didn't kill the Amiga. The ONLY thing that killed the Amiga were stupid company execs who constantly failed to bring up a competetive new Amiga system. Amiga was ahead of its time a lot with it's awesome custom chips etc. ...but as time went by the Company just failed to compete to standard PCs. I still love my Amigas and the cool time it gave me from '87 to around '95 when I finally dedicated more time with PCs which had by that time overtaken Amiga tech by far. Amiga tech was simply also way too expensive. You could buy a PC Harddisk for a few bucks, but the same stuff for Amiga cost a fortune It was and is a great machine, and will always stay in my heart. -Owner of 2xA500, 1xA1200, 1xA2500/30 and I still love to play the games on UAE. currently Hired Guns and others... And YES I had like 3 ShoeBoxes of Amiga Floppies copied besides 10-15 Originals, and was an active Member of Cracking scene. PS. On 2nd opinion the copying may have hurt gamecompanies. Since I was ~15 years old I didn't think twice when getting a new crack, and I don't have a bad feeling about it. Older people with an income should of course be more responsible. Maybe the majority of Amiga users were kids back then? I don't know. Now, since I got my own cash, I usually buy the games that I really like to play, but I still use cracks sometimes. Having a box, manual, and those goodies makes playing a game much more enjoyable, and you also spend much more time with something you bought. Last edited by guru64; 04 October 2006 at 06:42.

17 October 2006, 07:02	#86
Brass Zone Friend Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: New Zealand Posts: 55	No problems now I didnt have any pirated games on a perminant basis. I had the occasional stuff thrown at me, had a look at it and if it wasnt my style which you know after about 1/2 hour it would get erased; however if it was good and worth spending the money on I'd buy it - I had my 1st job then and was earning reasonable money. I would not pirate software from currently active software houses - but can not see the harm if the company is now defunct ( we are talking 2006 still existing ) companies here. From my perspective if the software house is now gone and its not being sold on the market there is no one to pay money to for it. I am more than willing to listen to arguments one way or the other.

17 October 2006, 10:08	#87
JonSick Registered User Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: London UK Posts: 255	I like many others here had about 20-30 original games and then over 120 cracked games. Did I ever play all of em? Nope! I remember playing alien breed and monkey island so much I bought them both original... alien breed wouldn't let me put on infinate lives and I got pissed off using the code wheel every time on monkey island, so I went back to using the crax - kept the originals nice and clean though! I'm a creative person myself - I play in metal bands. With metal, particularly black and death metal, the days of charging £10 for an underground band CD are long since gone. Hell, even asking £2 for a metal band's cd-r will always lead to nothing. People these days would rather use that £2 on another pint than your crummy CD. In any case, why should they listen to you? With metal the only way you get yourself known is to put many hours of slaving into creating your 8-track CD that has to sound good, decent artwork, hours and hours in front of your PC with four cd-writers attached and just burning off copy after copy. But what do you do? You gotta give it away free! If you don't you'll be going home with them cd-rs forever! We're a fairly popular band now - nowhere near sepultura stakes - but doing very well and we're in the unique position of actually being able to charge for our cd now, but we know full well that someone will buy our cd (for £3) and will copy it for friends, make it available on their P2P shares... even in the likes of Germany and Hungary, there are people offering rip-offs of our disk. We don't mind though... why? Because its the only way more and more people will hear us and be interested in us! Its the same with the amiga! There was LOADS of great games readily available. For most people the biggest sway from things like the PC, Mac and Atari was because they could get tonnes of quality games that were much better than their counterparts on an amiga computer! Piracy didn't kill the amiga. It was the millions of blunders by CBM that killed the amiga then the tarts that got hold of it afterwards (escom, gateway, etc). This is another reason why a used a1200 can still command up to £90 for an absolutely pristine in-box unit, stock! Because there is great software still available! The most I've seen things like megadrive or SNES consoles go for is about £10... Those asking £25 for a snes are still left with it! Game manufacturers have it ALL wrong. I would like an xbox-360! Really would. But paying £50 for a game? Sod the hell off!!! These companies would make far more by making the consoles a lot more expensive, but then the games dirt cheap! If I could buy a 360 for, say, £359, but then alll the games were £10 each, would that not be better? I pirated games because I was young and didn't have the money to blow £30 a twist on amiga games! I did where I could, or wanted to, but otherwise the lure of £1 per disk at the car booty, or free off my mates, did wonders! I used to go with a few friends of mine. We used to go and buy some blank floppies for about £5 per ten, prolly bought about 20 each, then we used to go to the car booty, buy about 3 or 4 games each, come back to mine and copy each others! The pirate got wind of this, worked out what we were doing, and even HE got pissy! Even though he was making about £30 a week off us combined! But anyway, he could also get any game we wanted! We could ask him for it one week and he'd have it the next week! Still the same price of £1 per disk - somehing that wasn't possible with shops. So lets narrow it down. Pirates could in general get you any game you wanted within a week- shops couldn't Pirates only charged maximum £1 a disk - shops didn't Pirates understood the market: young kids whose parents weren't gonna lay £30 a week pocket money on them every week - shops were clueless to this Pirates were able to provide games in most cases with decent trainers on them for lame players like me - shops didn't and neither did software houses. Pirates were also the reason I would guess that most people bought amigas - Shop's only sold them to whoever came in. Pirate and PD groups also promoted the amiga - I haven't yet seen an advert for amiga, apart from shop ones. Did CBM ever even do this? Pirates supported their software: If your disk was faulty, they would happily replace it and give you another game on top as an apology - shops never wanted to know. If my pirated disk ever did develop a fault, I could just go get another copy of one of my mates. My bloodnet disk 8 is still faulty, neither the shop or software house wanted to know! I ended up buying a pirate copy. I could back up my pirate games - no chance with original games! Meaning I'd always have a copy somewhere or another! So in actual fact, pirates were more educated in the market and knew their target audience better than these software houses or CBM! Same as now! I know the metal markets! I know its a full on waste of time to try promoting my music in the local bhangra arts center! I know I'd be much better off promoting it down the camden underworld!!! If CBM had more of a clue about their target audiences and promoted their machine as such, they probably would be still around today!!! Possibly not amiga, but CBM definately! Jon Just as a quickie edit: I actually do some side-work in console repairs these days, my biggest draw being installing chips to playstation 2s and xbox 360s. I know why people are installing these chips, I know full well! Fact is they bring me the chip and instructions I'll do the soldering and as far as I'm concerned, they want to play the imported games. The fact that I know all too well that they're going off to blockbuster to rent some games a dvd-r em is neither here nor there. But I tell you 99% of the guys who ask me to do this are young kids! Kids cannot afford £50 a game! Parents can't afford £50 a game! The only people who can are either rich rap starts or parents/25-30 yr olds with a combined income of over £100kpa! I understand this and I know nothing about consoles! Why doesn't nintendo or any of the other software houses know this? Last edited by JonSick; 17 October 2006 at 10:20.

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25 September 2006, 18:11	#82
andy2004 Zone Friend Join Date: May 2006 Location: Hampshire Age: 49 Posts: 271	thanks for the reply, i downloaded the last stc.library i think from your webpage 3.43 (1 Mar 1996) for 68020+ cpu. So what other computers did u write StoneCracker for? are there any plans to bring it to the PC?

01 October 2006, 21:38	#85
Phantasm Not a Rebel anymore Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: UK Age: 51 Posts: 497	I used to be an amiga cracker ran a fairly successful bbs for about 3 years, and I've also worked in the games industry (but not any longer). I dont regret doing the cracking, I always did it for the challenge and it was fun. I did however start off supporting my modem trading habbit by selling the stuff I downloaded to the local market trader. Thats the only thing I regret. I stopped doing that as soon as I was about to afford to support my phone bill by myself. I still dont buy any software but i'm not involved in any cracking these days (apart from maybe the odd bit for my own personal use).

21 December 2011, 11:44	#90
Conundrum Registered User Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: dunno Posts: 70	I abide by the golden rule: But to be fair, looking back to those days, I regret more having pirated amiga games then I do now with modern pc games, mostly because the amiga developers deserved a lot more the support. It's true there was a lot of rubbish games, but the good ones were pure gold and it felt amazing how most of 'em were made by like, 5 or 6 guys locked in basement, programming all day. Back then making games was more of a labour of love, and pleasure for game making, than a matter of budget, milestones, resources and shareholders interests, as it is today. Anyone could make great games at home as long as you were a good programmer. So it makes me feel kinda bad that studios like Sensible Software or the Bitmap Bros ended up going nowhere. Then again there was also the american market issue which both commodore and most british-based devs were never able to solve.

21 December 2011, 13:44	#91
synchro Sending You Back In Time Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: UK Age: 61 Posts: 986	Personally i think commodore themselves are mostly to blame for thier own demise...We wanted to play games like Doom and have cd rom on our amigas. we needed more ram and the ability to expand ( at reasonable prices ) but commodore were having non of it. The mags were full of interviews with David Pleasance with questions like....We get a lot of letters saying if the amiga does not get CDROM and expandability the amiga could die His usual response was usually ...Thats rubbish.. The Amiga 4000 at around $3,000 was just a stupid price when you could obtain a DX66 PC for around £500...Amiga Accelerater cards were selling for £290 odd pounds and still no cd rom... My point is basicly what was stated above in another post...Piracy had a great hand in selling amigas but in my opinion it was commodore who thought they were untouchable in the computer market.....They would not listen to thier customer needs and out priced themselves out of the market.... Piracy did not kill the Amiga..... Commodore did that all by themselves....

21 December 2011, 13:50	#92
wilshy Registered User Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: SouthEast-ish UK Posts: 372	I think you will find that David Pleasance was one of the true leaders of Commodore. He had the only profitable arm of Commodore, from memory and was working from a massively limited budget so of course he was going to big up the product that was selling rather than say that the Amiga needed to go in a different direction. It would be commercial suicide to state anything other than "our current product is where we need to be with development into newer products in the future". Commodore UK didn't kill the Amiga. The parent company was fully responsible.

26 December 2011, 23:38	#96
mrbob2 Registered User Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: sheffield Posts: 332	It wasnt commodore that killed the amiga. Its was simply technology. Its like saying is the spectrum 48k had a floppy drive could it have competed against the amiga? no. The 80s were about computers that had alll the components inside the keyboard, Commodore made everything, the PC was just a collection of random components made by dedicated component manufacturers, the amiga had a limited lifespan even from its birth. Everyone i knew owned an amiga 500, a few had a A1200 and 99% played games on it. When the megadrive came out and eventually psx, they played better games better gfx for half the price and all you did was whack in a game. For the amiga to compete it had to become a pc, we already had a pc so it was doomed. Nobody owns the PC, its a mutant of electronics.

27 December 2011, 00:45	#98
prowler Global Moderator Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Sidcup, England Posts: 10,300	Please can we get back on topic in this thread? What caused Commodore's demise has been discussed ad nauseam elsewhere.

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