AA3000 on A1K forum - the AGA A3000 - Page 2

NorthWay · 22 March 2019, 14:10

Matze, did you get some DSPs finally? Would love to have an update on your progress!

esel · 22 March 2019, 15:19

Yes, he did.

Matze · 12 June 2019, 09:45

Yes I did,

there are some issues with the DSP:

There is no software or library supporting the DSP. Everything must be build from scratch

The compiler to generate programms for this DSP is said to be the worst thing ever.

I don't know if the DMA is cooperating properly with the SCSI-DMAC

NorthWay · 12 June 2019, 13:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matze

I don't know if the DMA is cooperating properly with the SCSI-DMAC

Do you see any signs of life from the DSP when operating your 3000? Is there a separate rom for the DSP, or does the 3000 upload everything for it? Does the DSP have a 16-bit DAC? Does it mix sound in with the regular stereo outputs?

Inquiring minds wants to know!

Matze · 12 June 2019, 14:05

No the DSP arrived a few weeks ago and I wasn't able to fit it to the AA3000, yet. It needs a SuperDMAC-riser including a GAL, because some signals are integrated in the never released SuperDmac Rev 5 with I²C-support.

The DSP is directily connected to the Fastram of the AA3000 and operates as a independent busmaster. So the theory of operation is:
The AmigaOS loads the DSP-program code directly into the DSP Build-In SRAM-Memory and tells the DSP where the Data to process is located in fastram.

Then the DSP works through the program and takes over the whole Amiga bus (and stops Amiga OS!) to load/store the data from/to ram.

At the end the DSP raises an interrupt to tell the Amiga its finished and the result is either in the fastram or some output of the DSP ist used, eg the Serial IO channel, which can be connected to a T7525 A/D- D/A converter.
An audio mixer was planned as a extension shield for this prototype...

Locutus · 12 June 2019, 18:35

Sorry if i'm confused, but is the same project as Hese's AA3000?

NorthWay · 12 June 2019, 20:09

BTW, how hard was it to find the DSP? Have you found a source for them?

Mick · 12 June 2019, 20:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Locutus

Sorry if i'm confused, but is the same project as Hese's AA3000?

They were unreleased Commodore prototypes, hese probably based his AA3000+ on them.

https://www.bigbookofamigahardware.c...uct.aspx?id=23

Matze · 13 June 2019, 08:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by NorthWay

BTW, how hard was it to find the DSP? Have you found a source for them?

Depends on what you want to spend.
I have a source with 600$/piece.

A friend and I where lucky to get 4 pieces for 20$ each...
This took 1 year of seaching.

Matze · 13 June 2019, 09:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Locutus

Sorry if i'm confused, but is the same project as Hese's AA3000?

No this MoBo is one of the original AA3000. Dave Haynie said, that about 60 pieces where produced and send to key developpers in 1991! Many of them were scrapped due to questionable firm politics (DH said, only 5 survived). I was lucky to get 5 bare PCBs of this MoBo and build one of it. It runs rock stable!

Imagine an A3000 with SCSI and AGA in 1991.

Snyder canceled the AA3000 project in favour for his A1000jr project (downscaled Pizza-box A3000 with ECS and IDE)

Locutus · 13 June 2019, 10:18

Ahhhh right!

Thanks for explaining, i was confused for a moment. Makes sense now.

And yes its a massive shame we didn't get the AA3000

NorthWay · 14 June 2019, 00:44

Thanks for the info.
After staring into the air for a while I finally realized that for the first time in I don't know how long, I am envious of you/Hese for having something I want but can't have (in any foreseeable time). Something unique - turning back the clock so to say. A retcon of Amiga history, fixing what should have been.
I'd pay good money for one, or perhaps if it could be redone in something like E-ATX formfactor to find home in a snazzy tower.

Matze · 14 June 2019, 12:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dynamic_Computi

Bummer - The A1K forums are saying they are not taking new registrations - And I can't view the forums with the article on it. Is it invitation only?

Registration was a bit difficult in the past. But at the moment the whole forum is migrating to a new server/software . This takes days. So currently a1k is offline

mousehouse · 21 February 2020, 16:41

@Matze have you had a chance to look at Hese's AA3000+ board? Is the DSP on that board identical to the real A3000+?

trixster · 21 February 2020, 20:58

AT&T DSP3210 is the same chip as the Lucent DSP3210

mousehouse · 21 February 2020, 21:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by trixster

AT&T DSP3210 is the same chip as the Lucent DSP3210

Yes, apologies - I used incorrect wording

I meant, is the board by Hese identical with regards to the DSP?

Has anybody (Matze?) succeeded in running any code on it?

I missed the sell on Amibay but managed to find one...

trixster · 21 February 2020, 21:16

Hese doesn’t spec the dsp, he leaves that to the person who’s soldering the board, and their options are the at&t (which commodore would have used) or the lucent. But they’re the same chip

Hese has implanted the required PALs... so it ‘should’ be compatible with Matze’s board.... but until some software is produced to take advantage of the dsp, we won’t know for sure.

Pyromania · 21 February 2020, 21:30

What about using the DSP on the Flyer card from NewTek? It was sold to bunch of Amiga users running the Video Toaster so cards are still semi available and I believe it's well documented in this NewTek Developer Doc on the DiscreetFX website.

https://www.discreetfx.com/DeveloperManuals.html

Check the NewTek Amiga Video Flyer Developer Manual PDF on the website.

trixster · 21 February 2020, 23:13

I think the idea is to respin the AA3000+ as close to the AA3000 and A3000+ as possible, whilst modernising the layout etc, tweaking the design (adding the monitor switch for example) and adding those things that Dave Haynie suggested would be the natural progression for Amiga (pci slots etc).... so keeping the DSP he used seems logical and appropriate.

I think we’re all hoping the A1K guys are making progress with the dsp stuff and we’ll be able to do stuff with it in the future.

Pyromania · 23 February 2020, 15:57

@trixster

It would be awesome if a clone in some form of the AA3000+ came out for people to buy.

12 June 2019, 14:05	#25
Matze Hardware engineer Join Date: May 2016 Location: Berlin / Getmany Posts: 11	No the DSP arrived a few weeks ago and I wasn't able to fit it to the AA3000, yet. It needs a SuperDMAC-riser including a GAL, because some signals are integrated in the never released SuperDmac Rev 5 with I²C-support. The DSP is directily connected to the Fastram of the AA3000 and operates as a independent busmaster. So the theory of operation is: The AmigaOS loads the DSP-program code directly into the DSP Build-In SRAM-Memory and tells the DSP where the Data to process is located in fastram. Then the DSP works through the program and takes over the whole Amiga bus (and stops Amiga OS!) to load/store the data from/to ram. At the end the DSP raises an interrupt to tell the Amiga its finished and the result is either in the fastram or some output of the DSP ist used, eg the Serial IO channel, which can be connected to a T7525 A/D- D/A converter. An audio mixer was planned as a extension shield for this prototype... Last edited by Matze; 12 June 2019 at 15:48.

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22 March 2019, 14:10	#21
NorthWay Registered User Join Date: May 2013 Location: Grimstad / Norway Posts: 839	Matze, did you get some DSPs finally? Would love to have an update on your progress!

22 March 2019, 15:19	#22
esel Registered User Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Kassel Posts: 160	Yes, he did.

12 June 2019, 09:45	#23
Matze Hardware engineer Join Date: May 2016 Location: Berlin / Getmany Posts: 11	Yes I did, there are some issues with the DSP: There is no software or library supporting the DSP. Everything must be build from scratch The compiler to generate programms for this DSP is said to be the worst thing ever. I don't know if the DMA is cooperating properly with the SCSI-DMAC

12 June 2019, 18:35	#26
Locutus Registered User Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: Finland Posts: 1,176	Sorry if i'm confused, but is the same project as Hese's AA3000?

12 June 2019, 20:09	#27
NorthWay Registered User Join Date: May 2013 Location: Grimstad / Norway Posts: 839	BTW, how hard was it to find the DSP? Have you found a source for them?

13 June 2019, 10:18	#31
Locutus Registered User Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: Finland Posts: 1,176	Ahhhh right! Thanks for explaining, i was confused for a moment. Makes sense now. And yes its a massive shame we didn't get the AA3000

14 June 2019, 00:44	#32
NorthWay Registered User Join Date: May 2013 Location: Grimstad / Norway Posts: 839	Thanks for the info. After staring into the air for a while I finally realized that for the first time in I don't know how long, I am envious of you/Hese for having something I want but can't have (in any foreseeable time). Something unique - turning back the clock so to say. A retcon of Amiga history, fixing what should have been. I'd pay good money for one, or perhaps if it could be redone in something like E-ATX formfactor to find home in a snazzy tower.

21 February 2020, 16:41	#34
mousehouse Registered User Join Date: Sep 2019 Location: Netherlands Posts: 107	@Matze have you had a chance to look at Hese's AA3000+ board? Is the DSP on that board identical to the real A3000+?

21 February 2020, 20:58	#35
trixster Guru Meditating Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: England Posts: 2,337	AT&T DSP3210 is the same chip as the Lucent DSP3210

21 February 2020, 21:16	#37
trixster Guru Meditating Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: England Posts: 2,337	Hese doesn’t spec the dsp, he leaves that to the person who’s soldering the board, and their options are the at&t (which commodore would have used) or the lucent. But they’re the same chip Hese has implanted the required PALs... so it ‘should’ be compatible with Matze’s board.... but until some software is produced to take advantage of the dsp, we won’t know for sure.

21 February 2020, 21:30	#38
Pyromania Moderator Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 3,375	What about using the DSP on the Flyer card from NewTek? It was sold to bunch of Amiga users running the Video Toaster so cards are still semi available and I believe it's well documented in this NewTek Developer Doc on the DiscreetFX website. https://www.discreetfx.com/DeveloperManuals.html Check the NewTek Amiga Video Flyer Developer Manual PDF on the website.

21 February 2020, 23:13	#39
trixster Guru Meditating Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: England Posts: 2,337	I think the idea is to respin the AA3000+ as close to the AA3000 and A3000+ as possible, whilst modernising the layout etc, tweaking the design (adding the monitor switch for example) and adding those things that Dave Haynie suggested would be the natural progression for Amiga (pci slots etc).... so keeping the DSP he used seems logical and appropriate. I think we’re all hoping the A1K guys are making progress with the dsp stuff and we’ll be able to do stuff with it in the future.

23 February 2020, 15:57	#40
Pyromania Moderator Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 3,375	@trixster It would be awesome if a clone in some form of the AA3000+ came out for people to buy.

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