ATARI ST-E versus ATARI ST-FM ?

06 October 2002, 12:23

Atari ST-E and Atari ST-FM have diferrences in their sound chips does it ?

The "ST-E" and "ST-FM" means what ?

Cheers

RCK · 06 October 2002, 12:28

you should post this kind of requests to LGD:
http://www.atari.st/forum/list.php?f=7

Galahad/FLT · 06 October 2002, 12:52

Atari STFM is the original ST, and FM stands for Frequency Modulation, i.e. you can stick it straight into a TV.

The Later STe means Enhanced.

STFm = 3 channel sound, 512 colours, little or no hardware.
STe = 4 channel sound, 4096 colours, extra hardware in the form of a barrel shifter (what we would call a blitter, only the Atari version is a joke! It can only scroll on 16pixel boundaries!!!)

06 October 2002, 12:54

Whoops sorry.

I read at the Main board menu it says :

General Discussion
"Chat about the retro-gaming world in general."

So i thought here at this board category all talks about Retro gaming are appropriate,
in which Atari-ST is among those Retro gaming computers

06 October 2002, 12:56

Galahad/FLT, Thanks a lot for the info !

RetroMan · 06 October 2002, 14:40

Also to mention, that the STE can be expanded to 4 MB with normal 1 MB Simm Modules

06 October 2002, 16:03

Quote:

STe = 4 channel sound, 4096 colours, extra hardware in the form of a barrel shifter (what we would call a blitter, only the Atari version is a joke! It can only scroll on 16pixel boundaries!!!)

There isn't any 16 pixel limitation on either the blitter or the hardware scrolling - that's what the skew and pixel hard scroll registers are for. Also the STe had 5 channel sound and not 4.

Galahad/FLT · 06 October 2002, 16:04

either you are right, or all the games developers I have spoken to who couldn't be bothered to code for it are wrong!

mtb · 06 October 2002, 18:40

The Atari Ste has got the yamaha chip with 3 channels - the same of the st, plus a 2 channel ( left & right ) better chip.

I have seen an st for the first time in my life last month on internet ( no one near me has got one ), i have tried it with steem, but Paula is on another planet.

Amiga1992 · 07 October 2002, 01:22

Quote:

Originally posted by megajetman
I read at the Main board menu it says :
General Discussion
"Chat about the retro-gaming world in general."
So i thought here at this board category all talks about Retro gaming are appropriate,
in which Atari-ST is among those Retro gaming computers

Yes, you are completely right

. I just think what RCK meant is that if you post at LGD you'll get much better answers, being Atari-specific boards!

TjLaZer · 27 October 2005, 06:54

The STFM denotes Sixteen Thirty two Floppy Modulator. I have a 1040STF which is ST Floppy as it does not have a RF Modulator!

The STE (ST Enhanced) is Atari's answer to the Amiga! :P 4096 colors and improved stereo sound. It sadly came too late.

Total Eclipse · 27 October 2005, 10:15

There have been various models of the "original" ST - The ST (The very early model, with no TV modulator, and an external floppy drive) followed by the ST-F (internal floppy drive) and ST-FM (internal floppy drive and a TV modulator)

As TjLaZer said, the ST-E was meant to be the answer to the Amiga - like the Amiga, the ST-E had stereo sound, a palette of 4096 colours, hardware scrolling, and a blitter.

Unfortunately, some of the original ST limitations still remain - the fact that the ST's low resolution still only allowed 16 colours meant that getting the most out of that extended pallete range (by showing more than 16 colours on screen) still required coding routines to change the colour palette part way down the screen.

In addition, the ST-E's stereo sound allows playback at fixed sampling frequencies only (6.25 KHz, 12.5 KHz, 25 KHz and 50 KHz). While this means that the ST-E can generally play back better quality samples than the equivalent Amiga, playing a sample back at different frequencies than it was recorded at needs the CPU to stretch or shrink the sample data - e.g. if you sample a piano playing an "A" (440 Hz) at a 6.25 KHz sampling rate, and you then want to play it back as a "C" (approx 523 Hz), the ST-E needs to chop out slices of that sample, as it's still playing it back at 6.25KHz. AFAIK, the Amiga simply increases the playback frequency of that channel to 7.4 KHz-ish (this may be wrong - I might be misunderstanding exactly what the Amiga can do with its sound output)

Also, the ST-E's stereo output is purely a 2 channel system, so playing more than 2 samples together (for example, playing a MOD file) requires the CPU to mix the sample information together.

Avanze · 27 October 2005, 12:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by RCK

you should post this kind of requests to LGD:
http://www.atari.st/forum/list.php?f=7

The Little Green Desktop forums have been inactive for quite awhile now and the site itself, dead. I would use the Atari Forum to post for questions and answers.

http://www.atari-forum.com

Update: It seems the LGD forums are back online again, after one year of absence.

Galahad/FLT · 27 October 2005, 12:57

Im pretty sure the 'ST' doesn't stand for Sixteen Thirtytwo.

I think its generally accepted that it stands for Sam Tramiel, the then President of Atari who comissioned the ST.

Photon · 27 October 2005, 18:21

Actually, his name was Jack Tramiel.

According to this site, sixteen/thirtytwo stands for the 16-bit data bus and 32-bit address bus in the ST series.

http://www.old-computers.com/museum/...asp?st=1&c=922

Toni Wilen · 27 October 2005, 18:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Photon

According to this site, sixteen/thirtytwo stands for the 16-bit data bus and 32-bit address bus in the ST series.

68000's address bus is 24-bit.. (16MB max addressable memory)

Galahad/FLT · 27 October 2005, 21:43

One of Jack Tramiels sons was the main instigator of the Atari ST... and his name was?...... Sam!
http://www.atarimagazines.com/v3n10/JackTramiel.html

Photon · 27 October 2005, 23:50

This old article from 1989 backs old-computers.com's statement up

http://www.atarimagazines.com/startv4n5/the_future.html

This site, however, lists ST denoting SixTeen and TT denoting ThirtyTwo. It sounds reasonable (since the '030 is a 32-bit processor), unless Jack had another son/daughter whose name starts with T

http://www.atari7800.com/frames/docu...rticles_10.htm

I didn't get any solid hits in google results for "ST stands for Sam Tramiel", instead I got these two at the top and some more. But I didn't follow all the links, of course.

Ooh, who will bring clarity to this issue??? :P

I wanna find out, coz I'm an occasional visitor to old-computers.com and if they're wrong I'd ask them to correct any mistakes. I want the history of computing to be accurate!

musojon74 · 17 March 2006, 17:21

This will, I suppose, be of no real use since I can't think of the source! But I remember an ST mag (probably Format, since that's the main one I used to get) saying ST= 16 32 and TT = 32, 32.

Also, and I'm not the most knowledgable about this and it's been a while - didn't the ST have a somewhat crippled memory bus? It didn't allow the full 24 bit memory addressing of the 68k if I remember correctly. What was the max memory in an ST again?

Cheers, may be wrong!

Jon

alexh · 18 March 2006, 01:09

Doesnt the 16-32 refer to the 68000 which has 32-bit registers but a 16-bit ALU / data bus?

Maximum RAM of an ST is 14-Mbytes. Although in practice it is 4Mbytes.

06 October 2002, 12:23	#1
megajetman Posts: n/a	ATARI ST-E versus ATARI ST-FM ? Atari ST-E and Atari ST-FM have diferrences in their sound chips does it ? The "ST-E" and "ST-FM" means what ? Cheers

06 October 2002, 12:52	#3
Galahad/FLT Going nowhere Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: United Kingdom Age: 50 Posts: 8,986	Atari Atari STFM is the original ST, and FM stands for Frequency Modulation, i.e. you can stick it straight into a TV. The Later STe means Enhanced. STFm = 3 channel sound, 512 colours, little or no hardware. STe = 4 channel sound, 4096 colours, extra hardware in the form of a barrel shifter (what we would call a blitter, only the Atari version is a joke! It can only scroll on 16pixel boundaries!!!)

06 October 2002, 16:04	#8
Galahad/FLT Going nowhere Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: United Kingdom Age: 50 Posts: 8,986	Well mate.... either you are right, or all the games developers I have spoken to who couldn't be bothered to code for it are wrong!

18 March 2006, 01:09	#20
alexh Thalion Webshrine Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Oxford Posts: 14,337	Doesnt the 16-32 refer to the 68000 which has 32-bit registers but a 16-bit ALU / data bus? Maximum RAM of an ST is 14-Mbytes. Although in practice it is 4Mbytes. Last edited by alexh; 18 March 2006 at 01:15.

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06 October 2002, 12:28	#2
RCK Administrator Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Paris / France Age: 45 Posts: 3,084	you should post this kind of requests to LGD: http://www.atari.st/forum/list.php?f=7

06 October 2002, 12:54	#4
megajetman Posts: n/a	Whoops sorry. I read at the Main board menu it says : General Discussion "Chat about the retro-gaming world in general." So i thought here at this board category all talks about Retro gaming are appropriate, in which Atari-ST is among those Retro gaming computers

06 October 2002, 12:56	#5
megajetman Posts: n/a	Galahad/FLT, Thanks a lot for the info !

06 October 2002, 14:40	#6
RetroMan Registered User Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Germany Age: 51 Posts: 3,704	Also to mention, that the STE can be expanded to 4 MB with normal 1 MB Simm Modules

06 October 2002, 18:40	#9
mtb Registered User Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Italy Age: 40 Posts: 466	The Atari Ste has got the yamaha chip with 3 channels - the same of the st, plus a 2 channel ( left & right ) better chip. I have seen an st for the first time in my life last month on internet ( no one near me has got one ), i have tried it with steem, but Paula is on another planet.

27 October 2005, 06:54	#11
TjLaZer Registered User Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Tacoma, WA USA Age: 52 Posts: 1,915	The STFM denotes Sixteen Thirty two Floppy Modulator. I have a 1040STF which is ST Floppy as it does not have a RF Modulator! The STE (ST Enhanced) is Atari's answer to the Amiga! :P 4096 colors and improved stereo sound. It sadly came too late.

27 October 2005, 10:15	#12
Total Eclipse Registered User Join Date: May 2005 Location: Atherstone / UK Age: 49 Posts: 161	There have been various models of the "original" ST - The ST (The very early model, with no TV modulator, and an external floppy drive) followed by the ST-F (internal floppy drive) and ST-FM (internal floppy drive and a TV modulator) As TjLaZer said, the ST-E was meant to be the answer to the Amiga - like the Amiga, the ST-E had stereo sound, a palette of 4096 colours, hardware scrolling, and a blitter. Unfortunately, some of the original ST limitations still remain - the fact that the ST's low resolution still only allowed 16 colours meant that getting the most out of that extended pallete range (by showing more than 16 colours on screen) still required coding routines to change the colour palette part way down the screen. In addition, the ST-E's stereo sound allows playback at fixed sampling frequencies only (6.25 KHz, 12.5 KHz, 25 KHz and 50 KHz). While this means that the ST-E can generally play back better quality samples than the equivalent Amiga, playing a sample back at different frequencies than it was recorded at needs the CPU to stretch or shrink the sample data - e.g. if you sample a piano playing an "A" (440 Hz) at a 6.25 KHz sampling rate, and you then want to play it back as a "C" (approx 523 Hz), the ST-E needs to chop out slices of that sample, as it's still playing it back at 6.25KHz. AFAIK, the Amiga simply increases the playback frequency of that channel to 7.4 KHz-ish (this may be wrong - I might be misunderstanding exactly what the Amiga can do with its sound output) Also, the ST-E's stereo output is purely a 2 channel system, so playing more than 2 samples together (for example, playing a MOD file) requires the CPU to mix the sample information together.

27 October 2005, 12:57	#14
Galahad/FLT Going nowhere Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: United Kingdom Age: 50 Posts: 8,986	Im pretty sure the 'ST' doesn't stand for Sixteen Thirtytwo. I think its generally accepted that it stands for Sam Tramiel, the then President of Atari who comissioned the ST.

27 October 2005, 18:21	#15
Photon Moderator Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Eksjö / Sweden Posts: 5,602	Actually, his name was Jack Tramiel. According to this site, sixteen/thirtytwo stands for the 16-bit data bus and 32-bit address bus in the ST series. http://www.old-computers.com/museum/...asp?st=1&c=922

27 October 2005, 21:43	#17
Galahad/FLT Going nowhere Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: United Kingdom Age: 50 Posts: 8,986	One of Jack Tramiels sons was the main instigator of the Atari ST... and his name was?...... Sam! http://www.atarimagazines.com/v3n10/JackTramiel.html

27 October 2005, 23:50	#18
Photon Moderator Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Eksjö / Sweden Posts: 5,602	This old article from 1989 backs old-computers.com's statement up http://www.atarimagazines.com/startv4n5/the_future.html This site, however, lists ST denoting SixTeen and TT denoting ThirtyTwo. It sounds reasonable (since the '030 is a 32-bit processor), unless Jack had another son/daughter whose name starts with T http://www.atari7800.com/frames/docu...rticles_10.htm I didn't get any solid hits in google results for "ST stands for Sam Tramiel", instead I got these two at the top and some more. But I didn't follow all the links, of course. Ooh, who will bring clarity to this issue??? :P I wanna find out, coz I'm an occasional visitor to old-computers.com and if they're wrong I'd ask them to correct any mistakes. I want the history of computing to be accurate!

17 March 2006, 17:21	#19
musojon74 Registered User Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: The World Age: 50 Posts: 476	This will, I suppose, be of no real use since I can't think of the source! But I remember an ST mag (probably Format, since that's the main one I used to get) saying ST= 16 32 and TT = 32, 32. Also, and I'm not the most knowledgable about this and it's been a while - didn't the ST have a somewhat crippled memory bus? It didn't allow the full 24 bit memory addressing of the 68k if I remember correctly. What was the max memory in an ST again? Cheers, may be wrong! Jon

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