ClassicWB and HD's bigger then 4GB ?

Michaelm · 04 December 2006, 20:12

Is ClassicWB ready to use on HD's bigger then 4GB ? I have a CD32 with SX32 and a 6GB HD. Can I access the whole drive without problems ? What if I would get a 100GB HD, will it still work with ClassicWB from the box ?

Bloodwych · 04 December 2006, 20:49

I'm no expert on the solution to hard drive access beyond 4GB, you’re much better doing a search on EAB as this subject often pops up. Thomas has made some informative posts. I do know a few basics however (but don’t quote me

):

You can use any size hard drive in an Amiga, but will have to stick using the first 4GB only if you don't want to run into problems. Even then, I’ve seen people suggesting not to make partitions any bigger than 2GB (and the boot NEVER bigger than 4GB) if you are using the old 3.0/3.1 FFS. I never understand why people need more than 4GB on an Amiga anyway, but that's just me.

To go beyond 4GB, you'll have to use a later workbench than 3.0 or 3.1 as OS 3.5+ have a new FFS that supports larger drives.

If you want to stick with the ClassicWB, there are utilities like IDEfix and you'll have to install a replacement file system like SFS.

ClassicWB does come with SFS (smart file system) support, with instructions of how to install it and an install script to make relevant tools available on the popup menus. These scripts are in the "MyFiles->Install" folder.

The latest SFS is here:

http://home.wtal.de/js/

keropi · 04 December 2006, 20:56

why more than 4Gb???
whdload games ofcourse!

Michaelm · 04 December 2006, 20:57

Thanks for your answer and thanks for Classic WB !
I've already read some stuff about the bigger HD's but you did answer my question

Why I would want a 100Gb is because then I could put the whole Amiga TOSEC that I can use on my CD32 and eventually have all my favorite games just a click away after booting to the WB.

Bloodwych · 04 December 2006, 21:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by keropi

why more than 4Gb???
whdload games ofcourse!

Ok, you got me there, but even after selectively installing all the games and demos I want I still only managed to use about 2gigs on my A1200. I guess it's easier if you can just dump everything from the 3g+ collection.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michaelm

Why I would want a 100Gb is because then I could put the whole Amiga TOSEC that I can use on my CD32 and eventually have all my favorite games just a click away after booting to the WB.

Ok you got me too. I never really thought about that on the CD32.

I give up! You do need more than 4GB!

coze · 13 January 2007, 15:50

Ok, I'd been using CWb for some time on my A3000 now, and since I installed the christmas update now, I thought I'ld install it in a 9.1 gb harddisk I have lying around (which I was keeping for my permanent system). I'ld use about 4gb for amiga partitions, and leave the rest for 68k linux. Btw, I'm doing this on a A3000, with the updated scsi chip (wd 08). I created some partitions on my drive, (a 200mb system partition, a 1.1 gb utils partition and 1.2 games partition - paying attention not to cross the 4gb barrier) however, when I copied my stuff to the game partition, I lost the utils partition (it decided to become ndos suddenly). I thought there is something wrong with the drive maybe so I created the partition again and did a slow format. and when I copied my stuff to it this time I lost the games partition. When I try with SFS I get the same results. So I tried to patch the scsi.device if it would help (btw, hdinsttools won't let me craete partitions bigger than 1.2 gb and it sees the drive as 8gb). I noticed I had the scsi.device version 40.15. And running nsdpatch doesn't give me anything. It just checks the scsi.devices at boot, but probably can't find a suitable version to patch and it doesn't reboot.
So, what should I do here ? I really don't want to mess with os 3.5 or 3.9. Is there a way to get a newer scsi.device ?

Btw, an unrelated but annoying issue, when I want to quit from CWb, it says scalos is in use by 2 applications and it cannot quit. similarly reset option in the menu doesn't work. What could be causing this ?

Bloodwych · 13 January 2007, 16:11

Yes, that’s the 4GB limitation of Workbench 3.0/3.1 and FFS when using large hard drives.

I’m no expert on the issue and everything I know about the limitation I’ve already said above. There is more information on this forum, so do a search and see what you can dig up.

As for the quit/reset issue, yes those are bugs in Scalos and won’t be fixed in the ClassicWB releases. You can try the latest beta Scalos from their webpage, but it requires a major re-install and may introduce more problems as it’s now aimed at OS3.5+.

Not really a problem as most people reset their machines using the keyboard and I can’t see a reason to quit Scalos anyway – it would leave you with a blank screen. If you want a Workbench only mode with max mem, hold the right mouse button on boot.

I’ll add them to the bugs section of the webpage, thanks for reminding me.

coze · 13 January 2007, 16:14

Narrgh, I wanted to use that feature cause I'm using a pc keyb adapter and a mini ps2 keyboard with only ONE windows button

ok I should do this the proper way and install mmkeyboard software and map the second amiga key somewhere then. thanks !

I'm searching on the 4 gb issue.

Bloodwych · 13 January 2007, 16:21

I hope you find a solution - it's a pain in the arse! I just use the first 4GB and forget about it; seems to be enough for my use.

I do know (as you mentioned) you'll need a replacement scsi.device and a replacement filesystem (like SFS which is included in the packs), but even then I think there are precautions to take. Thomas posted some good stuff on the subject in the past I think.

thomas · 13 January 2007, 16:53

Quote:

I'ld use about 4gb for amiga partitions, and leave the rest for 68k linux.

This is a good approach and should work fine.

Quote:

I created some partitions on my drive, (a 200mb system partition, a 1.1 gb utils partition and 1.2 games partition - paying attention not to cross the 4gb barrier) however, when I copied my stuff to the game partition, I lost the utils partition (it decided to become ndos suddenly).

This sounds as if you accidentally used more than 4gb. Obviously the utils and the games partition share the same area on the HDD. Writing to one partitions renders the other one unusable.

Are you sure you didn't cross the 4GB border ? 4GB is less than half of the drive. Are you sure you only used the first 4GB of the drive ?

The values calculated by HDToolbox are wrong if they are bigger than 4GB. For example if you create a 5 GB partition, it will tell you it is only 1GB. Or if you create a 4.2GB partition it will tell you it is only 200MB. Are you sure you didn't stumble across this ?

coze · 13 January 2007, 17:03

Hmm, yes, I thought I didn't pass the 4gb, but when you said this, I may have overflowed one of them and thought it's a 1gb partition. I'll cehck again.

Btw, when using hdinsttools, I add the sfs to the rdb, but it shows it as fast file system (DOS/3). And I can't see SFS in the partition settings. If I select FFS (DOS/3) will it be SFS ? is this normal ?

again btw, I found the new scsi.device on this page. If I overflowed the partition, I may not need this but I'll just install it and try if it works.

Zetr0 · 13 January 2007, 17:53

as an idea Coze,

for a friend whom had a 20GB drive and wanted to use all of it...

I got hold of a 128MB Compact Flash Card and an IDE adapter.

I then set this up for a nice OS3.5 and then installed the new scsi.device as well as TD64 and SFS formats....

I then connected the 20GB hard disk and then proceeded to format partions of 10GB, 4GB and 6GB using SFS in the partition options.

I am pleased to say that its all working lovely jubbly

I repeated this process a little while later but with a bigger CF card as a boot drive...

Anyways i hope it helps my friend.

Bloodwych · 13 January 2007, 20:46

I used to be an expert at installing SFS, but the last time I did it was back in 2002!

I know as well as installing the file system to the RDB in hdtoolbox, you have to edit the description string for the file system and make sure your maxtrans, buffers and mask are correct. It's all in the SFS instructions (inc in the Expansion/SFS folder), but there are online guides as well which I used back when I installed it.

Take a look at my post (No 25) in this thread - it has links to some online guides and advice on the subject, back from 2002:

http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=5811

Hope it's of some use.

coze · 15 January 2007, 04:59

Ok, I managed to fix it. I had to edit the description string and maxtrans, buffer settings like bloodwych said. And you have to set the file system to custom and edit the filesystem string to SFS\0 by hand. Btw, it was FFS messing my harddrive. Eventhough I didn't pass the 4gb limit, it was overwriting a previous partition (I created the partitions a second time being very careful not to overflow them this time). It also didn't work, but getting SFS to work did solve my problem. When you succesfuly switch the partition to SFS, you should see options directory cache and international mode shaded in the format menu.If they're active, it means the partition is still FFS (I guess). Thanks everyone for their help.

Btw, I see two development branches in the SFS homepage. SFS 1.265 and SFS 2.30. Does anyone know the differences ? and if the SFS 2 is stable ?

Bloodwych · 15 January 2007, 10:49

Nice one! Welcome to a much better file system!

The 2.xx versions are still experimental and I'd say not reliable at this point. It is a completely re-written version of SFS in order to add support for single files larger than 4GB! Can't see a reason to use this, especially at the moment.

If you look on the SFS page, it has change details for 2.xx if you scroll down the list far enough.

Now if you decide to install the ClassicWB again, you can enable SFS support via the MyFiles/Install folder. You'll find scripts that add tools and items to all the menus.

04 December 2006, 20:12	#1
Michaelm Registered User Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Heerlen / Netherlands Posts: 13	ClassicWB and HD's bigger then 4GB ? Is ClassicWB ready to use on HD's bigger then 4GB ? I have a CD32 with SX32 and a 6GB HD. Can I access the whole drive without problems ? What if I would get a 100GB HD, will it still work with ClassicWB from the box ?

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04 December 2006, 20:49	#2
Bloodwych Moderator Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: I'm behind you! Posts: 3,763	I'm no expert on the solution to hard drive access beyond 4GB, you’re much better doing a search on EAB as this subject often pops up. Thomas has made some informative posts. I do know a few basics however (but don’t quote me ): You can use any size hard drive in an Amiga, but will have to stick using the first 4GB only if you don't want to run into problems. Even then, I’ve seen people suggesting not to make partitions any bigger than 2GB (and the boot NEVER bigger than 4GB) if you are using the old 3.0/3.1 FFS. I never understand why people need more than 4GB on an Amiga anyway, but that's just me. To go beyond 4GB, you'll have to use a later workbench than 3.0 or 3.1 as OS 3.5+ have a new FFS that supports larger drives. If you want to stick with the ClassicWB, there are utilities like IDEfix and you'll have to install a replacement file system like SFS. ClassicWB does come with SFS (smart file system) support, with instructions of how to install it and an install script to make relevant tools available on the popup menus. These scripts are in the "MyFiles->Install" folder. The latest SFS is here: http://home.wtal.de/js/

04 December 2006, 20:56	#3
keropi . Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Ioannina/Greece Posts: 5,040	why more than 4Gb??? whdload games ofcourse!

04 December 2006, 20:57	#4
Michaelm Registered User Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Heerlen / Netherlands Posts: 13	Thanks for your answer and thanks for Classic WB ! I've already read some stuff about the bigger HD's but you did answer my question Why I would want a 100Gb is because then I could put the whole Amiga TOSEC that I can use on my CD32 and eventually have all my favorite games just a click away after booting to the WB.

13 January 2007, 15:50	#6
coze hastala vista winny vista Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: mt fuji Age: 46 Posts: 1,335	Ok, I'd been using CWb for some time on my A3000 now, and since I installed the christmas update now, I thought I'ld install it in a 9.1 gb harddisk I have lying around (which I was keeping for my permanent system). I'ld use about 4gb for amiga partitions, and leave the rest for 68k linux. Btw, I'm doing this on a A3000, with the updated scsi chip (wd 08). I created some partitions on my drive, (a 200mb system partition, a 1.1 gb utils partition and 1.2 games partition - paying attention not to cross the 4gb barrier) however, when I copied my stuff to the game partition, I lost the utils partition (it decided to become ndos suddenly). I thought there is something wrong with the drive maybe so I created the partition again and did a slow format. and when I copied my stuff to it this time I lost the games partition. When I try with SFS I get the same results. So I tried to patch the scsi.device if it would help (btw, hdinsttools won't let me craete partitions bigger than 1.2 gb and it sees the drive as 8gb). I noticed I had the scsi.device version 40.15. And running nsdpatch doesn't give me anything. It just checks the scsi.devices at boot, but probably can't find a suitable version to patch and it doesn't reboot. So, what should I do here ? I really don't want to mess with os 3.5 or 3.9. Is there a way to get a newer scsi.device ? Btw, an unrelated but annoying issue, when I want to quit from CWb, it says scalos is in use by 2 applications and it cannot quit. similarly reset option in the menu doesn't work. What could be causing this ?

13 January 2007, 16:11	#7
Bloodwych Moderator Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: I'm behind you! Posts: 3,763	Yes, that’s the 4GB limitation of Workbench 3.0/3.1 and FFS when using large hard drives. I’m no expert on the issue and everything I know about the limitation I’ve already said above. There is more information on this forum, so do a search and see what you can dig up. As for the quit/reset issue, yes those are bugs in Scalos and won’t be fixed in the ClassicWB releases. You can try the latest beta Scalos from their webpage, but it requires a major re-install and may introduce more problems as it’s now aimed at OS3.5+. Not really a problem as most people reset their machines using the keyboard and I can’t see a reason to quit Scalos anyway – it would leave you with a blank screen. If you want a Workbench only mode with max mem, hold the right mouse button on boot. I’ll add them to the bugs section of the webpage, thanks for reminding me.

13 January 2007, 16:14	#8
coze hastala vista winny vista Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: mt fuji Age: 46 Posts: 1,335	Narrgh, I wanted to use that feature cause I'm using a pc keyb adapter and a mini ps2 keyboard with only ONE windows button ok I should do this the proper way and install mmkeyboard software and map the second amiga key somewhere then. thanks ! I'm searching on the 4 gb issue.

13 January 2007, 16:21	#9
Bloodwych Moderator Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: I'm behind you! Posts: 3,763	I hope you find a solution - it's a pain in the arse! I just use the first 4GB and forget about it; seems to be enough for my use. I do know (as you mentioned) you'll need a replacement scsi.device and a replacement filesystem (like SFS which is included in the packs), but even then I think there are precautions to take. Thomas posted some good stuff on the subject in the past I think.

13 January 2007, 17:03	#11
coze hastala vista winny vista Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: mt fuji Age: 46 Posts: 1,335	Hmm, yes, I thought I didn't pass the 4gb, but when you said this, I may have overflowed one of them and thought it's a 1gb partition. I'll cehck again. Btw, when using hdinsttools, I add the sfs to the rdb, but it shows it as fast file system (DOS/3). And I can't see SFS in the partition settings. If I select FFS (DOS/3) will it be SFS ? is this normal ? again btw, I found the new scsi.device on this page. If I overflowed the partition, I may not need this but I'll just install it and try if it works.

13 January 2007, 17:53	#12
Zetr0 Ya' like it Retr0? Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: United Kingdom Age: 49 Posts: 9,768	as an idea Coze, for a friend whom had a 20GB drive and wanted to use all of it... I got hold of a 128MB Compact Flash Card and an IDE adapter. I then set this up for a nice OS3.5 and then installed the new scsi.device as well as TD64 and SFS formats.... I then connected the 20GB hard disk and then proceeded to format partions of 10GB, 4GB and 6GB using SFS in the partition options. I am pleased to say that its all working lovely jubbly I repeated this process a little while later but with a bigger CF card as a boot drive... Anyways i hope it helps my friend.

13 January 2007, 20:46	#13
Bloodwych Moderator Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: I'm behind you! Posts: 3,763	I used to be an expert at installing SFS, but the last time I did it was back in 2002! I know as well as installing the file system to the RDB in hdtoolbox, you have to edit the description string for the file system and make sure your maxtrans, buffers and mask are correct. It's all in the SFS instructions (inc in the Expansion/SFS folder), but there are online guides as well which I used back when I installed it. Take a look at my post (No 25) in this thread - it has links to some online guides and advice on the subject, back from 2002: http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=5811 Hope it's of some use.

15 January 2007, 04:59	#14
coze hastala vista winny vista Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: mt fuji Age: 46 Posts: 1,335	Ok, I managed to fix it. I had to edit the description string and maxtrans, buffer settings like bloodwych said. And you have to set the file system to custom and edit the filesystem string to SFS\0 by hand. Btw, it was FFS messing my harddrive. Eventhough I didn't pass the 4gb limit, it was overwriting a previous partition (I created the partitions a second time being very careful not to overflow them this time). It also didn't work, but getting SFS to work did solve my problem. When you succesfuly switch the partition to SFS, you should see options directory cache and international mode shaded in the format menu.If they're active, it means the partition is still FFS (I guess). Thanks everyone for their help. Btw, I see two development branches in the SFS homepage. SFS 1.265 and SFS 2.30. Does anyone know the differences ? and if the SFS 2 is stable ?

15 January 2007, 10:49	#15
Bloodwych Moderator Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: I'm behind you! Posts: 3,763	Nice one! Welcome to a much better file system! The 2.xx versions are still experimental and I'd say not reliable at this point. It is a completely re-written version of SFS in order to add support for single files larger than 4GB! Can't see a reason to use this, especially at the moment. If you look on the SFS page, it has change details for 2.xx if you scroll down the list far enough. Now if you decide to install the ClassicWB again, you can enable SFS support via the MyFiles/Install folder. You'll find scripts that add tools and items to all the menus.

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