vampire V2 - what should i be using it for...?

[Gorf]

Originally Posted by Akira

Well it seems to me the best use of a Vampire also requires a time machine.

Yes, but the time-machine requires a Vampire to work... one with a FPU...

[michaelz]

For some reason; "Will it blend?" comes to mind...

[modrobert]

Originally Posted by michaelz

For some reason; "Will it blend?" comes to mind...

[Romanujan]

If you have no idea what to do with Vampire... sell it

[Signman]

Originally Posted by Jope

You can click that speed button in sysinfo's drives information screen and marvel at the number again and again!

I do that and it keeps crashing, need the no fpu version.
Funny, that with running Quake and Doom seem to be what many want it for.

[emufan]

some good progress on SoftFPU by Jari Eskelinen:
[ Show youtube player ]

[Gorf]

Well - at the moment a 50Mhz 68882 is still 6 times faster than softFPU.
I am sure it can be improved - but it will be always far from the real deal.
(while Gunnar is still advertising the Vampire as "250MHz 68040".)

Don't get me wrong: It is a cool thing to have and it will allow a whole bunch of programs to run, that would not start at all otherwise.

[emufan]

Originally Posted by Gorf

Well - at the moment a 50Mhz 68882 is still 6 times faster than softFPU.
I am sure it can be improved - but it will be always far from the real deal.
(while Gunnar is still advertising the Vampire as "250MHz 68040".)

he argues we have to distinguish between vampire and apollo core - and everybody have to know this ...

Don't get me wrong: It is a cool thing to have and it will allow a whole bunch of programs to run, that would not start at all otherwise.

yes, thats the positive thing.

[Gorf]

Originally Posted by emufan

he argues we have to distinguish between vampire and apollo core - and everybody have to know this ..

Nope - I quoted from his own page, where he advertises the Vampire 600 V2 and the Vampire 500 V2+.

"Apollo 68080 CPU (performance ~ 250MHz 68040)"

yes: not 68EC040 but 68040.
Right now the Apollo-core on this very Vampires reach with softFPU only a 68040@20Mhz.

[TrashyMG]

Originally Posted by Gorf

Nope - I quoted from his own page,

That page just says "Products using APOLLO CORE: " - It's still two different projects, plus if people want to license the Apollo core for their own things they can do it and no doubt Gunnar would put those products on that page.

[emufan]

yes, it's misleading - no question. the other day he answered this way:

We produce the APOLLO CORE and the SAGA chipset.
We here do _NOT_ produce the Vampire2.

I assume he replied to you

@TrashyMG: but why they do not add the EC to the 68040 comparision?

[Gorf]

Originally Posted by TrashyMG

That page just says "Products using APOLLO CORE: " - It's still two different projects.

And what is there listed as feature next to these products?

I quote:

CPU Accelerator for AMIGA A600

• Apollo 68080 CPU (performance ~ 250MHz 68040)
• 128 MB Memory
• FastKick
• SAGA GFX Core : Truecolor DIGITAL VIDEO OUT
• SDcard for Data exchange

So this are clearly advertised features of this very product.
Not some theoretical feature of Apollo, but a feature of this specific implementation.

And thats just wrong.

[TrashyMG]

@Gorf, but they're still seperate things, even if there is some "guestimation" work on the performance on his page. how right or wrong is it is irrelevant.

[Gorf]

Originally Posted by emufan

yes, it's misleading - no question. the other day he answered this way:

I assume he replied to you

Yes and after my complaint, he kicked me out of his forum, without warning or explanation

And half an hour later he added at least this line:

"The features of Apollo Core included with a specific Accelerator card can vary in correspondence with the hardware features of that card."

That was not there before.

[Gorf]

Originally Posted by TrashyMG

@Gorf, but they're still to seperate things, even if there is some "guestimation" work on the performance on his page. how right or wrong is it is irrelevant.

What are separate things?
The Apollo-Core on the Vampire2 is different from the Apollo-Core on the Vampire2?
Please explain this.

[TrashyMG]

Exactly that, the Apollo core has a long term goal that will hopefully lead to a true ASIC that could be clocked at a much higher clock speed. The Vampire which is handled by Majsta and Kipper just happen to use some portions of that core, what can be fit into the current FPGA (cyclone III). Gunnar is working on things that may not fit on the current Vampire boards, also nothing is stopping another company to use his core for other projects.

[Gorf]

Originally Posted by TrashyMG

Exactly that, the Apollo core has a long term goal that will hopefully lead to a true ASIC that could be clocked at a much higher clock speed. The Vampire which is handled by Majsta and Kipper just happen to use some portions of that core, what can be fit into the current FPGA (cyclone III). Gunnar is working on things that may not fit on the current Vampire boards, also nothing is stopping another company to use his core for other projects.

Now you did explain nothing at all.

That is all nice and good. But has absolutely nothing to to with the false statements on the page.

The "guestimation" is off by a factor of 12.5.

If I advertise a car with 125hp and after you bought it, it turns out it has only 10hp, I guess that is no big deal for you.
Ok: do you want to buy a car?

[matthey]

Originally Posted by Gorf

Yes and after my complaint, he kicked me out of his forum, without warning or explanation

So that is why your post "Needs Verification". I thought your question was well written and to the point without being offensive. It received a good answer from Gunnar with much needed clarification (good questions result in good answers). IMO, there is still a certain level of deception in the marketing by calling the CPU in the Vampire a 68080 instead of a 68LC080. Using "68080" looks like Motorola nomenclature which implies a full CPU with FPU and MMU (I believe there is a non-virtual simple MMU/MPU which is not 68k MMU compatible in the Vampire at least). Even the A-EON announcement mentions "68080". I don't think the "68080" marketing is illegal though as there is no requirement to match the Motorola marking system but I would think the businesses involved would want to avoid the confusion and shadiness of using a similar but different nomenclature.

[Gorf]

Originally Posted by matthey

IMO, there is still a certain level of deception in the marketing by calling the CPU in the Vampire a 68080 instead of a 68LC080. Using "68080" looks like Motorola nomenclature which implies a full CPU with FPU and MMU (I believe there is a non-virtual simple MMU/MPU which is not 68k MMU compatible in the Vampire at least).

On the features page he compares the "Apollo Core 68080" with all the Motorola 68K CPUs - there he claimes:

"Integrated FPU" as well as "Pipelined FPU" and a second time "Fully pipelined, double/extended FPU".

There is not the slightest hint, that these feature may vary or that not all are implemented every time.

He uses the exact same term "Apollo Core 68080" as a explicit feature of the Vampire 600 V2 and the Vampire 500 V2+ here.

It is simply irrelevant how he explains all that in a forum - he can not expect a potential customer to dig through thousands of posts to stumble upon the right one.

And it would be so damn easy to be clear about this, but still he does not want to be clear about it...

[TrashyMG]

Originally Posted by Gorf

Now you did explain nothing at all.

That is all nice and good. But has absolutely nothing to to with the false statements on the page.

The "guestimation" is off by a factor of 12.5.

If I advertise a car with 125hp and after you bought it, it turns out it has only 10hp, I guess that is no big deal for you.
Ok: do you want to buy a car?

Actually you comprehended nothing at all.

And what false statements is there? He's likely comparing it to a 68040 sans FPU, so the "guestimation" is true enough.

The car analogy is garbage, because for most applications it's still faster than anything out there.