HOL/Guardians of the PaST Links

[CodyJarrett]

The HOL is now linking to its first non-Amiga website (apart from Wikipedia) - the Atari ST site Guardians of the PaST. You can see the links here:

http://hol.abime.net/hol_search.php?N_nb_guardians=yes

[Amiga1992]

Linking to Atari ST!!!!!
SACRILEGEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

[killergorilla]

OH NO!

This is the start of the end!

It's Game Over man, it's just Game Over!

Ok, seriously... nice!

[StingRay]

Oh noooeess, the end is nigh. You traitors.

[TCD]

Hehe, just had a look and they removed the 'ST original' info Found some games in the past where the info on HOL and GotP weren't 'compatible'
Well nice to see the extra info on HOL and hope more sites for other systems follow

[Amiga1992]

Yeah, here's looking for more sites and a final massive HUB to be created among them
I mean, if you people don't do this, Google will!

[Goldrunner]

Hi

I am the project co-ordinator of Guardians of the PaST. I would like to thank CodyJarrett and the rest of the team for establishing links to our site. Some parts of our site where actually influenced by HOL and so we where more than happy about the links.

Originally Posted by TheCyberDruid

Hehe, just had a look and they removed the 'ST original' info Found some games in the past where the info on HOL and GotP weren't 'compatible'
Well nice to see the extra info on HOL and hope more sites for other systems follow

I'm not 100% what you mean here. If you mean we mark some games as 'ST Original' then you are correct. However, we only do this when a game originated on the ST and then converted to other platforms. A good proportion of 16-bit games prior to 1990 originated on the ST and then converted to the Amiga, sometimes these conversions where sloppy and did not make use of the Amiga's features. From 1990 onwards this trend reversed and the ST got the conversion from the Amiga. Of course there are always exceptions to this, for example, all Bitmap Brothers games where developed on ST's up to the end of 1991. Of course the Bitmap Brothers made sure the obvious advantage of the Amiga's custom chips and sound where fully utilised, unlike other companies sloppy conversions.

To summerise, if a game like Dungeon Master started out life on the ST then its marked 'ST Original', if not then we mark it 'Platform Coversion'. I should also state that we never guess a games origins, we do a lot of research to find out everything we can about a game. As an Amiga lover myself you can be sure I would never sell it down the river, all we do it tell the historic truth.

[TCD]

Ah, now I see. The example would be Gods. Both HOL (http://hol.abime.net/2754) and GotP (http://www.guardiansofthepast.co.uk/...?Version_ID=10) say that it's original to the platform. I won't judge who is right, but I think the data should be consistent
Oh and welcome Goldrunner Really nice site you made there (even if I'm not that much into ST games)

[Amiga1992]

I agree with TheCyberDruid. Now that you are linking, you might as well COLLABORATE and have consistent data. It is unacceptable that Gods is marked as platform original on both platforms!!!

[dlfrsilver]

Gods is atari ST first friends.....

[Amiga1992]

Originally Posted by dlfrsilver

Gods is atari ST first friends.....

[Goldrunner]

The end the world nigh!

Seriously, I beleive the Chaos Engine originated on the Amiga, and as for the Chaos Engine 2 the ST didn't even get a look in since it was finished as a viable platform by that time.

At least the Bitmap Brother actually enhanced the games for the Amiga. The sound effects in Gods are much better on the Amiga than on the ST. Although the ST also (amazingly) got the 'Into the Wonderful' which sounded exactly the same on the ST. To do this the brothers built a tracker player into the ST version so an Amiga mod could be played, the same occured with Magic Pockets. To actally play a mod to the same standard as the Amiga the ST was stretched, in the intro where you get to learn about the guest the Amiga scrolls it up the screen, on the ST the text is simply stwiched at intervals. When playing the tracker module the ST could do little else since the processor was simulating four channel stereo sound.

[CodyJarrett]

I've contacted Bitmap Brother Mike Montgomery directly and asked him about the original platform for Gods:

Gods was started on the ST but after a short while the amiga was run in parallel.

So, I think that it's more accurate to say that Gods was a dual development ST/Amiga title with the qualification that ST development was started slightly earlier.

The HOL could do with an update to the "Amiga original game" field to allow for the options to include "multi-platform development" with the notes fields being used for further details.

I also queried Mike about the ST/Amiga versions of other Bitmap games:

Xenon -> Atari ST start then port to Amiga (editor on ST)
Speedball -> Atari ST start then parallel
Xenon 2 -> Atari ST start then parallel (editor on ST)
Cadaver -> Atari ST then much later Amiga
Speedball 2: Brutal Deluxe -> Both at the same time
Cadaver: The Pay Off -> Both
Gods -> Begun on ST but dual ST/Amiga development soon after
Magic Pockets -> Both
The Chaos Engine -> Both
The Chaos Engine 2 -> Amiga ONLY

Also:

- The Xenon Arcadia coin-op was done right after the Amiga one and took about one week
- The Chaos Engine 2 Megadrive beta was "was just to see if could do it, had one level I think"
- Any AGA and CD32/CDTV versions were created after the original disk releases

[Retro-Nerd]

Thanks for the infos Cody.

- Any AGA and CD32/CDTV versions was created after the original disk releases

Well, if laser would accept this fact?

[Goldrunner]

Nice one Cody

I have no problem updating Guardians with this information from Mike. I am not sure how to show the information so will consult with the other members to find the best solution. Obviously the ST was the start platform for some of these but the parallel development afterwards needs to be noted on both sites, its certainly a important aspect of the evolution of the game and should be remarked upon.

My first ideas would be something like the following:

Origin: Dual ST/Amiga
Origin: Dual ST/Amiga Development
Origin: Parallel ST/Amiga
Origin: Parallel ST/Amiga Development

This is for games that Mike says where developed in parallel. For games that started on the ST followed by ST/Amiga dual development its more difficult because in essence it is an 'ST Original' game, but to me its not the whole story so somehow we need to add the dual development into the equation.

Origin: ST, Dual ST/Amiga
Origin: ST then Dual ST/Amiga

More information could then be given in the notes field to explain exactly what this field means. This is only my first thoughts after reading the information from Mike, I am sure there will be more elegant solutions. Whatever the solution is, both sites should take care to show exactly the same data for both platforms.

BTW, before anyone remarks on why I always put ST before Amiga in ST/Amiga, I would like to explain that the magazine ST/Amiga Format started doing it that way and thats the way everyone does it since then!

[CodyJarrett]

On the HOL side I was thinking of something pretty simple...

- Unknown
- Amiga Original
- Not Amiga Original
- Multi-Platform Development

...and then using the notes fields to highlight complications.

For the Bitmap Brothers games this would be:

Xenon -> Not Amiga Original (Based on Atari ST version)
Speedball -> Multi-Platform Development (But started on Atari ST)
Xenon 2 -> Multi-Platform Development (But started on Atari ST)
Cadaver -> Not Amiga Original (Based on Atari ST version)
Speedball 2: Brutal Deluxe -> Multi-Platform Development
Cadaver: The Pay Off -> Multi-Platform Development
Gods -> Multi-Platform Development (But started on Atari ST)
Magic Pockets -> Multi-Platform Development
The Chaos Engine -> Multi-Platform Development
The Chaos Engine 2 -> Amiga Original

[Goldrunner]

I will follow your lead and keep it simple and remark on the dual development in the notes if needed. Thankyou very much for contacting Mike since the Bitmap Brothers games have recieved special attention from us in the past and this just makes our enteries even better. If fact we still havn't quite finished with thier games since we have updates for Cadaver and Speedball II in the works, plus a little update for the Chaos Engine. But like everything it seems to take forever on sites like this, maybe I just need a bigger team, if only the Atari ST scene was a big bigger with active sceners!