OTS and Spamming

[Bamiga2002]

I dont' mind the OT, but then again i don't even visit there so often .

[Zetr0]

@ALL

I have been trying to find words to explain how much bollox this all is... I cannot, i get angry and incensed by the serious bitching going on.

f'k it ... to be fair if you cannot see the need for the fun / community then realistically pointing out the need for its community is not going to work..

trying to moderate a thread of stupidity in OT Stupidiy... is in its in entirety .... stupid!

but yeah, KG please pat your self on the back.... you pissed a lot of good poeple off and got what you want..... unfortunately I wont... no one there did anything directly nasty to anyone, least of all you.

irony would have it, if you had trolled any thread outside of OT I am sure things would be a lot different by now.

----

the whole thing.... contrite, contrived and cruel.... i hope you are all f*cking happy with your sad little selfs!

[eLowar]

Originally Posted by Zetr0

but yeah, KG please pat your self on the back.... you pissed a lot of good poeple off and got what you want..... unfortunately I wont... no one there did anything directly nasty to anyone, least of all you.

I'd like a count of how many "good people" (whatever that means and whoever makes that determination) were/are pissed off at the general state of OT, I have a feeling it'll sum up to a larger number than the main OT crowd. In fact I'm sure that holds true even if you don't count all those who do 180° at the first sight of the "content" of some OTS post and never go back to OT.

But what do I know, I'm obviously not one of the good people.

[DamienD]

Guess I might as well add what I think about this issue... Very quickly, I'll snip some quotes from other people's replies in the various threads that I tend to agree with:

Originally Posted by T_hairy_bootson

I was told a while back if I didnt like the content in OTS I should stay out of OTS. So I did. <snip>

<snip> why should I and others be kicked out because of the ghey, kissy, phun, half naked men spam.

I am not homophobic, I just didnt think it was funny at all. <snip>

Originally Posted by Brakus

<snip> And I just don't get all the gay / ghey jokes over here, sometimes I think I've missed some inside gay reference joke. <snip>

Originally Posted by T_hairy_bootson

<snip> I guess in the same way people couldnt overlook potatoes, I and others couldnt overlook the ghey spam. <snip>

Originally Posted by Mick_AKA

There used to be some half decent and interesting threads in the OT section as a whole until it got hidden away down the bottom there.

Since that happened it's been nothing but a shit storm of foul abuse and outright idiocy, which is one reason why I don't post allot nowadays.

To me the OT section was a place where people could post general stuff unrelated to the Amiga that doesn't belong in the main board. I used to hang out there all the time but got frustrated with it probably a year or so ago as IMHO it was going downhill very fast with all the gay, distasteful posts, name calling and meaningless carp.

Ok, sure I understand that everybody has different tastes but just can't get my head around how anybody can find this "fun". Anyway whatever, I've just ignored the section every since...

It's sad as I do miss popping in there to see who's birthday it is and to read other possibly interesting topics but unfortunately there's probably only 5% in there that I might find appealing.

I also must say that from a moderator's point of view it's an absolute nightmare. Like bippym, I don't really have the time or desire to moderate through such a section, I already have enough to do in my day after work. If only you guys could see all reported post that arise from this section.

To finish off, for the record I don't want to get rid of the OT section. I do think it's a valuable place but there definitely needs to be a rethink about some of the current content allowed. Not sure how you'd achieve this though without stepping on anybodies toes and making certain people think that they are being censored / dictated to?

[eLowar]

Originally Posted by DamienD

To finish off, for the record I don't want to get rid of the OT section. I do think it's a valuable place but there definitely needs to be a rethink about some of the current content allowed. Not sure how you'd achieve this though without stepping on anybodies toes and making certain people think that they are being censored / dictated to?

To make this very clear one more time, nobody wants to get rid of OT as a whole (at least nobody I'm aware of). This isn't about shutting down OT, quite the opposite, this is about making OT usable for everybody again.

As for stepping on toes, toes have been stepped on, on both sides, for a long time, it's too late to avoid toe stepping.

How are content restrictions "censorship"? Every site on the Internet has content restrictions (well, most, and feel free to go out and look at what becomes of those that don't). Again, I don't see how typing another URL to post or read about some specific subject (whatever it be) is such a major hardship. And once again, this isn't about taste, I wouldn't mind all this if it wasn't so disruptive (I say this to preempt more "just because you don't like it" blah blah, although I'm sure it'll be coming anyways, ah well), we're not talking about one or two threads here, we're talking about 95% (to go with DamienD's number, although I think it's a bit low) of all posts.

[killergorilla]

Originally Posted by eLowar

To make this very clear one more time, nobody wants to get rid of OT as a whole (at least nobody I'm aware of).

Certainly not me.

[Eclipse]

I thought my post was contributing?
Anyway my view is if you don't like gardening don't go looking to dig up potatoes.
Seriously, think about what it means it's sensible.

EDIT: Maybe the allotment should be locked somehow, but you can have a key if you want?

[Graham Humphrey]

Just to add, my viewpoint is virtually exactly the same as those of Damien, KG and eLowar (particularly the pub analogy he used). I used to take part in OT quite a lot too, and I do still post occasionally but sadly when I do it's usually to close a thread or to give someone a warning which is a bit sad.

I would hope everyone actually understands what has been going on by now but judging by a few replies in this thread it seems some people are determined to totally miss the point no matter how many times it's spelled out to them.

Oh and has anybody actually given an answer to this yet?

Originally Posted by eLowar

Can anyone seriously give me any good (!) reason for the few people who are interested in this stuff not to just take it elsewhere? There are big places (you know what and where they are), full of people who are into this stuff, so why not go there and share it with them instead?

[Bloodwych]

Originally Posted by Graham Humphrey

Oh and has anybody actually given an answer to this yet?

I've answered that above Graham and offered a solution that doesn't seem to have any weight with anyone. Probably because my post was quite long, is now in the mid part of this thread and got skip read by most people (I've tried to read every post here, but I do skip read threads too so I'm not having a dig - just thought the suggestion warranted some discussion).

Originally Posted by Eclipse

EDIT: Maybe the allotment should be locked somehow, but you can have a key if you want?

Exactly. Why are people so set on an all or nothing rule? That just creates two armies with no-man’s-land in-between. One army will win, but the other will be left with a bitter taste.

I can't see how a section of the board, only accessible as an opt in service like the zone, can harm or piss off anyone else? The social groups are very much an acquired taste and no one's bothered by them as they're not in your face during general off topic searches.

Make Off-Topic stupidity forum the same. Having it included in the main off topic search at the top of the forum is what's causing the problems.

If RCK says no then you'll never hear another peep out of me on the subject. If we HAVE to make an all or nothing decision, I'll go the majority's decision as I'm primarily here for the Amiga and socializing with decent people.

[Graham Humphrey]

Sorry Bloodwych, so you did - was still half-asleep when I wrote that post. And I don't think it's a bad idea to be honest, an 'opt-in' type thing could work. Although I would still prefer getting it off EAB totally, it's an alternative worth considering.

[TCD]

Guess I might aswell throw my 2 cents in : I think Bloodwych's idea is worth thinking about. It would leave the 'normal' OT so that it can be moderated. Of course that doesn't mean that noone has to have an eye on the 'new' OTS then too. On the other hand it's maybe not worth the hassle.

[humble worm]

I can see no point in making 'new' OTS. Within a year there will be the same old story again as it will sting somebodys eyes or cause some trouble with moderation.

Not sure if it makes sense but on other boards I saw "2 lines post" rule for offtopic. If you want to post you have to take an effort and make it at least 2 lines long. You cannot post two sensible words and fill it blablablabla, it wont count and the post will be deleted. The post may be absurd but must be coherent to some level. This enforces a bit of thinking and dicourages most from posting shit.

[Bloodwych]

It's ok Graham, as I said I skip read posts all the time and miss what people are saying - it's unavoidable sometimes.

CyberDruid, I think the opt in OTS wouldn't need much moderation as long as public access is not available (as with social groups).

As for general board access - if someone goes specifically looking for the hidden OTS and then complains, then that's a little silly of them, isn't it? Unless they are getting personally attacked in there or something! I can understand people's grievances with the current "in your face" stupidity spoiling normal off topic discussions however.

With all the options on the table, ultimately it is the mods and RCK who will decide and their word is final for me as they do the extra work for EAB. They have to moderate the board and RCK supplies the services. If it's decided this isn't what they want at all on the board, a kind of opt in chill out silly forum, then fair enough for me.

[TCD]

Originally Posted by Bloodwych

CyberDruid, I think the opt in OTS wouldn't need much moderation as long as public access is not available (as with social groups).

Not sure, but does that mean that the normal rules (mainly about picture content) won't apply there?

[NewDeli]

It shouldn't be so difficult / boring to moderate threads with no content at all.

For me the "root of evil" is the fact that dull threads (with one-liner posts to take Humble Worm reference) pop-up out of nowhere in a very short period of time. If threads were "pending" before people could post in them, that would make both their moderation and their public interest evaluation more accessible.

An unlock mechanism could bring to life ONE thread at a time on the condition that the thread topic would have been approved by the designated OT moderator.

Let's say I submit two threads one being "bears taking a nap by the river" and the other "happy birthday, Girv !", the mod would simply unlock the second one, based on the assumption that spammers probably won't make a mess out of it.

The system would be even better if voters could sink a thread that went wrong. For example, after seeing a picture of an elk in an unlocked thread, I could vote for it's instant closing. If OTS had, say 10 active members, and 6 of them voted likewise, the thread would be closed.

That would imply that there are more sane people than unsane ones in OTS, but guys, if you believe that's not the case, discussing the matter with us is pointless INMHO. That would also require that "active members" somehow register for an OTS account, so their activities in EAB and in OTS could be dealt with separately (a ban here would not imply a ban there).


I don't know if vBulletin allows for pending threads and similar refinements, but I think concealing OTS in such ways you describe could only lead to its disaffection.

[TCD]

Somehow I think that moderating EAB should be about EAB and not necessarily about 'unlocking' OTS threads...

[Marcuz]

i make a point of never use OT ever again.

at least what i type will not go under the scrutiny of what's smart, cool, funny, decent and what's not by someone else than myself, no more than already is in the larger and topical place of the rest of the board.

[Bloodwych]

Originally Posted by TheCyberDruid

Not sure, but does that mean that the normal rules (mainly about picture content) won't apply there?

I think there is a line to be drawn somewhere about picture content, but the stuff I've seen in off topic stupidity is mostly fine. I guess a test run would only tell the true outcome about moderation requirements.

I see humble worm and Deleauvive already don't see the point of the opt in suggestion and have reasons why, which is fair enough as we all view things differently - so it looks like there isn't a midway solution that suits everybody.

Let's simplify all this - the three options are (we could have a vote, perhaps?):

1. Leave Alone (not going to happen, too many people unhappy)
2. Stricter rules and Moderation, removal of OTS (seems too strict for me and more work for the mods)
3. Remove OTS from the general Off-Topic search at the top of the forum, and keep it separate as a hidden or opt-in service like the zone. (much less moderation, auto clean every few weeks, invisible to most forum members)

[gimbal]

why is the ghey stuff still being brought up? That was put to rest the first time there was a general roar to silence it, some many months ago (except for some individuals that keep the thought alive from time to time).

OTS is fun, but I do agree that certain jokes are stretched out far too long. Posting 15+ similarly named threads for example is not my idea of fun. It was the FIRST time it happened though. The first two threads I saw the potatoes, I found it funny. From the third one and up it was annoying.

But I don't complain about that, because OTS is for everyone and I'm pretty sure that some or most people find my posts annoying, highly or otherwise. My general wish though is that people would not push it.

[DH]

@Deli
Doesn't work, let's say if a mod's sole purpose was the OT section, he could be too busy regulating threads for submission to the OT section rather than checking what's actually being posted. For me doing this would spell disaster as members would probably decide not to bother as threads could take some time to be released.

@all
The OT section, imho, should of came with rules, that way everybody would understand where the limits were. I think that has caused so much pain in the last few days. Although some people would say "Rules are there to be broken", true, but it's better to have them than not at all. Think of driving, if there were no rules regarding driving, people would drive however they thought fit, more accidents would probably occur + deaths and everybody would blame everybody else for the failures that would occur. Something I think is sort of happening here, everyone is blaming everyone else for the outcome of OTS these last few days. The final stage would be to blame EAB itself for the failures rather than blame the members but ike Marco said "OT is everybody's responsibility" and I'll stand by that statement.

Stuff what anyone else thinks, I say the OT section should be moderated, but with a more lenient position than for the main board. The OT section should also have some general rules regarding the nature and content of threads/posts. I know it has the same rules as the main board but a few extra ones wouldn't harm but this seriously needs a debate imho. If a mod was present in the OT section then being lenient regarding it, is something that will take a while to develop but should and could work, if everyone gives the support.

I know some of you will say WTF! but how else are we going to get the OT section back in order and back to reasonable FUN. If it can't be moderated and rules applied then I say remove it altogether as I can't see how it would work otherwise. It *will* take a while for things to fall into place + members to trust the new system, but eventually it will hopefully suit all needs and become the fun and happy place it once was.

@Marco
I don't think it's about scrutinising everything that gets posted, it's about taking the edge off something that otherwise could get out of hand. If people know there is someone there to keep an eye on things, then some people would think twice about what they post or the QTY of repetitive pics they use. As I said earlier, the mod would have to be far more lenient than he/she would otherwise be for the main board.

God I could talk about this subject for hours, but I will save you lot the pain I just can't see how it could work otherwise.