Classic Workbench CF versions - Page 2

Zetr0 · 06 March 2007, 00:03

its looking fan-dabby-tastic.... there some great work

Retro-Nerd · 06 March 2007, 00:15

So we don't need to run the startup-sequence from the installed WB? This s-s should be on the bootdisk, right?

Edit: And which to files do you meant? Or folders?

ppill · 06 March 2007, 00:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Retro-Nerd

So we don't need to run the startup-sequence from the installed WB? This s-s should be on the bootdisk, right?

Edit: And which to files do you meant? Or folders?

Exactly, one s-s (on the floppy).

When you boot up with the old s-s there should be the two files (among other things) in ram:env/, Workbench and Kickstart. Copy them to cf0:wbench/prefs/env-archive/.

Retro-Nerd · 06 March 2007, 00:46

Edit: It works fine, there were some troubles with the _UAEFSDB._ entries in some folder. Many thanks ppill, this is a good start.

But what about the CWB setups? Is your new bootdisk s-s enough to load them properly?

ppill · 06 March 2007, 09:32

Quote:

Edit: It works fine, there were some troubles with the _UAEFSDB._ entries in some folder. Many thanks ppill, this is a good start.

Glad to hear it works. Where are these _UAEFSDB._ entries exactly? Do you get any error messages during boot time?

Quote:

But what about the CWB setups? Is your new bootdisk s-s enough to load them properly?

ClassicWB won't start properly as it uses some custom assigns not present in this s-s. This should be fairly easy to fix

What filesystem does the cf0: mount use? fat95 or ffs?

ppill · 06 March 2007, 09:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zetr0

its looking fan-dabby-tastic.... there some great work

cheers Zetr0!

Retro-Nerd · 06 March 2007, 15:11

I'm using WinUAE for copying stuff to the card. There were some UAEFSDB files, also in the monitors folder. I assume the Workbench tried to bind this file as a monitor.

The card uses Fat95, or do you only meant this "mount" command on the disk? The FastFilesystem is also on the disk, never tried it without.

ppill · 06 March 2007, 15:34

So what you've basicly done is copied the contents of your winUAE setup to the CF card (in the WBench drawer). Is that right?

Retro-Nerd · 06 March 2007, 15:37

Yes, i've mounted the card as a hdd in WinUAE and installed the plain WB. This should be only a test, so i didn't use a CW package.

ppill · 06 March 2007, 15:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Retro-Nerd

Yes, i've mounted the card as a hdd in WinUAE and installed the plain WB. This should be only a test, so i didn't use a CW package.

Okey, so we've got a plain workbench sitting on a FAT16 partition (I see trouble ahead

).

Right so what now needs to be done is to mount the HDF to access it like a normal drive and run the s-s from there. Hmmm...

I'm looking into it right now (and will be for most part of the this afternoon and possibly evening

) so expect a new s-s later in the day to try out.

PS. I've just bought a CF adapter plus a CF card (still need to pick it up) so I should be able to test my ideas tomorrow.

Retro-Nerd · 06 March 2007, 15:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by ppill

Okey, so we've got a plain workbench sitting on a FAT16 partition (I see trouble ahead

).

Right so what now needs to be done is to mount the HDF to access it like a normal drive and run the s-s from there. Hmmm...

I'm looking into it right now (and will be for most part of the this afternoon and possibly evening

) so expect a new s-s later in the day to try out.

PS. I've just bought a CF adapter plus a CF card (still need to pick it up) so I should be able to test my ideas tomorrow.

Very good news. I'm pretty sure you can handle this little "beast".

ppill · 06 March 2007, 19:37

A quick update:

- just installed my new CF adapter and CF card and both work great

- I've got three candidates for the device to mount the HDF file, namely:
* file.device from xfs
* diskimage.device
* filedisk.device from MountISO
and now I'm trying to create a suitable mountlist for the HDF file using these.

Retro-Nerd · 06 March 2007, 19:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by ppill

A quick update:

- just installed my new CF adapter and CF card and both work great

- I've got three candidates for the device to mount the HDF file, namely:
* file.device from xfs
* diskimage.device
* filedisk.device from MountISO
and now I'm trying to create a suitable mountlist for the HDF file using these.

I'm staying tuned.....

ppill · 07 March 2007, 17:28

This is proving to be more challenging than I initially thought. I didn't manage to mount a HDF file (can't get giggledisk to work on winuae to get the correct mountlist values especially the lowcyl and endcyl numbers

). I did however mount a 100meg file created with an util from diskimage's archive and tried to copy an already installed ClassicWb setup. The bad news is that it's pretty slow (it took like 6 minutes to copy the C drawer) on my a1240/40 so on a vanilla one it will crawl.

I'm gonna go ahead with this anyway to see if I can mount that damn HDF file (just need to ask around for help) but there is (*possibly*) a better solution.

You could partition the CF card on the PC and leave some space at the end. Create an amiga partition there (without a RDB), install ClassicWB and mount it during boot time. I'm not sure if it's possible but seems likely that it could work and be so much faster that using a 200mb HDF file. You could have the best of two worlds without having to sacrifice speed.

Retro-Nerd · 07 March 2007, 17:37

Much more trouble as i thought. Maybe it is better to copy the CWB files to the card. I don't care about the HDF mounting, when it causes problems or slowdowns.

ppill · 07 March 2007, 17:56

Having a SYS: partition with fat95 as the filesystem is not a very good idea since it could lead to problems caused by incompatibility (file names, protection disks, comments etc.).

Having a "hybrid" CF card (as described above) could be a feasible solution.

Retro-Nerd · 07 March 2007, 18:08

Even on a PC it took me ages to copy some amiga files to the FAT16 formatted card. But this is probably a Windows problem, to much small files.

Maybe Toni shows in and gives us some hints. Have you noticed some incompatibilities with the WB & FAT95 filesystem so far?

Zetr0 · 07 March 2007, 22:42

so (imma playing cachup

) we have several solutions with vairous problems and bennefits... lets list them

1. single boot method
CF is FAT format, Workbench is instigated from the floppy disk, then hands over system to the CF disk

2. dual boot method
CC0 and CF card mounted from FDD. SYS is handed to CF card to continue booting.

3. CC0 and CF card mounted from FDD, Hard Disk File mounted from FDD. SYS handed over to HDF

4. PrePartition CF: 100MB ClassicWB OS installed, remaining partition in FAT.
CC0 mounted from FDD, SYS handed over to CWB partition on CC0!

whoa... lots of cool ways to do it!

I really love option 4. it safe guards OS files from FAT file name limmitations! but one can plug the CF card into the PC and "whoop'der'is!"

ppill · 08 March 2007, 22:07

YEEEES!

Finally managed to boot the miggy of a HDF file sitting on a FAT formatted CompactFlash card.

And I've even made a video (sorry for the poor quality but I've used my cheap DigiCam):

http://video.google.pl/videoplay?doc...67966372585187

Some comments:
- the boot process roughly starts from the moment I switch the channel.

- the boot process starts on the floppy disk and later is carried out on the HDF file. Here's the s-s form the floppy disk:

Code:

cardreset
cardpatch
mount CF0: ;devs:compactflash.device + l:fat95
mount DH0: ;devs:filedisk.device + l:FastFileSystem + HDF sitting on the CF card
movesys cd DH0:
run >NIL: execute s:startup-sequence ;from this point the system starts booting from the HDF
endcli

- the HDF file (100mb) has been created under WinUAE (RDB Enabled - IMPORTANT!) and it's got ClassicWB_ADV installed on it(I've made no alternations to its s-s).

- as you can see (barely

) on the video it's my a1240/40 16meg (apollo) with a sandisk cf card and adapter, elbox keyboard interface and a normal amiga floppy drive (DD). Everything connected to a PAL TV set.

- I haven't stripped the computer on purpose it's just that the tower is still at my parents' place

More info to follow...

Retro-Nerd · 08 March 2007, 22:40

Good work, ppill. I will try this later, my 512 MB card is mostly full with WHDLoad games. Need some space for testing this.

06 March 2007, 00:15	#22
Retro-Nerd Missile Command Champion Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Germany Age: 52 Posts: 12,436	So we don't need to run the startup-sequence from the installed WB? This s-s should be on the bootdisk, right? Edit: And which to files do you meant? Or folders? Last edited by Retro-Nerd; 06 March 2007 at 00:29.

06 March 2007, 00:46	#24
Retro-Nerd Missile Command Champion Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Germany Age: 52 Posts: 12,436	Edit: It works fine, there were some troubles with the _UAEFSDB._ entries in some folder. Many thanks ppill, this is a good start. But what about the CWB setups? Is your new bootdisk s-s enough to load them properly? Last edited by Retro-Nerd; 06 March 2007 at 01:04.

07 March 2007, 17:28	#34
ppill CON: artist Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Poland Age: 43 Posts: 1,250	This is proving to be more challenging than I initially thought. I didn't manage to mount a HDF file (can't get giggledisk to work on winuae to get the correct mountlist values especially the lowcyl and endcyl numbers ). I did however mount a 100meg file created with an util from diskimage's archive and tried to copy an already installed ClassicWb setup. The bad news is that it's pretty slow (it took like 6 minutes to copy the C drawer) on my a1240/40 so on a vanilla one it will crawl. I'm gonna go ahead with this anyway to see if I can mount that damn HDF file (just need to ask around for help) but there is (possibly) a better solution. You could partition the CF card on the PC and leave some space at the end. Create an amiga partition there (without a RDB), install ClassicWB and mount it during boot time. I'm not sure if it's possible but seems likely that it could work and be so much faster that using a 200mb HDF file. You could have the best of two worlds without having to sacrifice speed. Last edited by ppill; 07 March 2007 at 17:45.

08 March 2007, 22:07	#39
ppill CON: artist Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Poland Age: 43 Posts: 1,250	YEEEES! Finally managed to boot the miggy of a HDF file sitting on a FAT formatted CompactFlash card. And I've even made a video (sorry for the poor quality but I've used my cheap DigiCam): http://video.google.pl/videoplay?doc...67966372585187 Some comments: - the boot process roughly starts from the moment I switch the channel. - the boot process starts on the floppy disk and later is carried out on the HDF file. Here's the s-s form the floppy disk: Code: cardreset cardpatch mount CF0: ;devs:compactflash.device + l:fat95 mount DH0: ;devs:filedisk.device + l:FastFileSystem + HDF sitting on the CF card movesys cd DH0: run >NIL: execute s:startup-sequence ;from this point the system starts booting from the HDF endcli - the HDF file (100mb) has been created under WinUAE (RDB Enabled - IMPORTANT!) and it's got ClassicWB_ADV installed on it(I've made no alternations to its s-s). - as you can see (barely ) on the video it's my a1240/40 16meg (apollo) with a sandisk cf card and adapter, elbox keyboard interface and a normal amiga floppy drive (DD). Everything connected to a PAL TV set. - I haven't stripped the computer on purpose it's just that the tower is still at my parents' place More info to follow... Last edited by ppill; 08 March 2007 at 22:52.

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06 March 2007, 00:03	#21
Zetr0 Ya' like it Retr0? Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: United Kingdom Age: 49 Posts: 9,768	its looking fan-dabby-tastic.... there some great work

06 March 2007, 15:11	#27
Retro-Nerd Missile Command Champion Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Germany Age: 52 Posts: 12,436	I'm using WinUAE for copying stuff to the card. There were some UAEFSDB files, also in the monitors folder. I assume the Workbench tried to bind this file as a monitor. The card uses Fat95, or do you only meant this "mount" command on the disk? The FastFilesystem is also on the disk, never tried it without.

06 March 2007, 15:34	#28
ppill CON: artist Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Poland Age: 43 Posts: 1,250	So what you've basicly done is copied the contents of your winUAE setup to the CF card (in the WBench drawer). Is that right?

06 March 2007, 15:37	#29
Retro-Nerd Missile Command Champion Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Germany Age: 52 Posts: 12,436	Yes, i've mounted the card as a hdd in WinUAE and installed the plain WB. This should be only a test, so i didn't use a CW package.

06 March 2007, 19:37	#32
ppill CON: artist Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Poland Age: 43 Posts: 1,250	A quick update: - just installed my new CF adapter and CF card and both work great - I've got three candidates for the device to mount the HDF file, namely: * file.device from xfs * diskimage.device * filedisk.device from MountISO and now I'm trying to create a suitable mountlist for the HDF file using these.

07 March 2007, 17:37	#35
Retro-Nerd Missile Command Champion Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Germany Age: 52 Posts: 12,436	Much more trouble as i thought. Maybe it is better to copy the CWB files to the card. I don't care about the HDF mounting, when it causes problems or slowdowns.

07 March 2007, 17:56	#36
ppill CON: artist Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Poland Age: 43 Posts: 1,250	Having a SYS: partition with fat95 as the filesystem is not a very good idea since it could lead to problems caused by incompatibility (file names, protection disks, comments etc.). Having a "hybrid" CF card (as described above) could be a feasible solution.

07 March 2007, 18:08	#37
Retro-Nerd Missile Command Champion Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Germany Age: 52 Posts: 12,436	Even on a PC it took me ages to copy some amiga files to the FAT16 formatted card. But this is probably a Windows problem, to much small files. Maybe Toni shows in and gives us some hints. Have you noticed some incompatibilities with the WB & FAT95 filesystem so far?

07 March 2007, 22:42	#38
Zetr0 Ya' like it Retr0? Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: United Kingdom Age: 49 Posts: 9,768	so (imma playing cachup ) we have several solutions with vairous problems and bennefits... lets list them 1. single boot method CF is FAT format, Workbench is instigated from the floppy disk, then hands over system to the CF disk 2. dual boot method CC0 and CF card mounted from FDD. SYS is handed to CF card to continue booting. 3. CC0 and CF card mounted from FDD, Hard Disk File mounted from FDD. SYS handed over to HDF 4. PrePartition CF: 100MB ClassicWB OS installed, remaining partition in FAT. CC0 mounted from FDD, SYS handed over to CWB partition on CC0! whoa... lots of cool ways to do it! I really love option 4. it safe guards OS files from FAT file name limmitations! but one can plug the CF card into the PC and "whoop'der'is!"

08 March 2007, 22:40	#40
Retro-Nerd Missile Command Champion Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Germany Age: 52 Posts: 12,436	Good work, ppill. I will try this later, my 512 MB card is mostly full with WHDLoad games. Need some space for testing this.

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