Another retrosite bites the dust

7-Zark-7 · 24 May 2003, 12:51

Learned about this via the Lemon 64 site. It seems the infamous IDSA bots strikes again.

http://cia.c64.org/

http://www.lemon64.com/forum/viewtop...er=asc&start=0

Sadly it seems like no 8bit & 16bit computer retro sites are safe nowadays. When even "legitimate" sites like BTTR get attacked in this sort of fashion, is it little wonder that site authors must get fed up with trying to justify themselves against these nameless men-in-suits?

(Btw-mods, feel free to move this to Off-topic if you deem it appropriate, wasn't sure where it was better suited)

wakeupbomb · 24 May 2003, 12:55

That's really crap
The internet fascists strike again

Mr Creosote · 24 May 2003, 20:19

Diablo? Come on, I can virtually smell the mistake of those stupid searchbots there! If they uphold the claim of copyright of that title (as well as a few others mentioned), they're committing a crime themselves! Why do people always take their sites down completely when something like that happens?

Bernd · 24 May 2003, 21:46

It has already been said in BTTR news that Robert L. Hunter, IV is a robot and no human beiing.

These e-mails are generated automatically and check sites for keywords (game titles). For instance we were asked to remove PacMan. The game which was online, however, was a PD clone...

If people get cold feet and close their sites voluntarily after receiving this standardized e-mail it is their own fault/stupidity...

WOC_Admin · 28 May 2003, 01:28

Hi,

I dont think its about them being 'stupid'. I mean, not all of us know about the in's and out's of the law. An e-mail like that will strike fear into some webmasters and they could be thinking 'Is it really worth me doing this?".

I must confess, I'm not an expert on law, it chops and changes all the time and I only know the basics. I mean, you mentioned Pacman which is of course a PD clone as you say. The thing is Pacman (the character) is copyrighted, so if anyone basis a game on Pacman, arent the infringing some rights? It's the same with screenshots, isnt that technically illegal? In most terms and conditions it says 'in whole or in part' - Does that include screenshots or not? The law is a funny thing, its hard to understand and I guess it depends on how fussy the company in question is going to be. Like I say, I'm no expert, far from

Mr Creosote · 28 May 2003, 11:43

Screenshots are legal under the terms of "fair use" - you're allowed to use excerpts of any work for the sake of reviewing it.

In any case, even if the letter strikes fear into someone, it would be enough to pull down the downloads of the games which actually belong to IDSA members! They can't speak for any other copyright holders, so they can't do anything about anyone offering games made by anyone not on their member list. In the case of a C64-related site, the games actually belonging to these companies should be very small.

Adeptus · 29 May 2003, 06:06

Quote:

Originally posted by Mr Creosote
Why do people always take their sites down completely when something like that happens?

Could have been the ISP/host that took it down?
(though if that were the case, I wouldn't expect to see the letter from IDSA there)

Mr Creosote · 29 May 2003, 11:42

Exactly - if it had been the ISP, there would be a page saying something like "removed due to violation of the TOS and AUP".

JudasEZT · 30 May 2003, 00:12

how bots works??

what they do??

Bernd · 02 June 2003, 10:47

Quote:

I must confess, I'm not an expert on law, it chops and changes all the time and I only know the basics. I mean, you mentioned Pacman which is of course a PD clone as you say. The thing is Pacman (the character) is copyrighted, so if anyone basis a game on Pacman, arent the infringing some rights?

You're right with this assumption. These game clones are not legal in a way. But nobodey seems to care about it. (except Nintendo and the Tetris maker) By offering these PD clones for downloading we are in "good faith" that the developer has asked the character-, game principle owner for a licence and/or tolerates these game clones.

If we were asked by Namco to remove a PacMan clone we would not hesitate to do so. But not in the case of IDSA who create auto-generated e-mails and decline any form of communication.

As for screenshots etc Mr Creosote has already commented correctly...

andreas · 02 June 2003, 13:18

Someone should *PERSONALLY* go to these IDSA dudes and ask if this thing can't be ignored in some cases.
Remember: E-mails are fruitless and will only be answered using another dumb e-mail autoresponder. This is just wasted time. Maybe a REAL letter would give more insight.

Maybe they don't even know what they "land" by "scanning" "innocent" websites with their cheap script??
And yes, it *IS* a script. The wording is EXACTLY the same every time, only the data is variable.

Too many webmasters let themselves buffalo by this stuff, I think. It's a matter of RESISTANCE, that's what it is.

24 May 2003, 12:51	#1
7-Zark-7 Zone Friend Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Brisbane/Australia Posts: 1,270	Another retrosite bites the dust Learned about this via the Lemon 64 site. It seems the infamous IDSA bots strikes again. http://cia.c64.org/ http://www.lemon64.com/forum/viewtop...er=asc&start=0 Sadly it seems like no 8bit & 16bit computer retro sites are safe nowadays. When even "legitimate" sites like BTTR get attacked in this sort of fashion, is it little wonder that site authors must get fed up with trying to justify themselves against these nameless men-in-suits? (Btw-mods, feel free to move this to Off-topic if you deem it appropriate, wasn't sure where it was better suited)

28 May 2003, 01:28	#5
WOC_Admin Zone Friend Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: England Posts: 73	Hi, I dont think its about them being 'stupid'. I mean, not all of us know about the in's and out's of the law. An e-mail like that will strike fear into some webmasters and they could be thinking 'Is it really worth me doing this?". I must confess, I'm not an expert on law, it chops and changes all the time and I only know the basics. I mean, you mentioned Pacman which is of course a PD clone as you say. The thing is Pacman (the character) is copyrighted, so if anyone basis a game on Pacman, arent the infringing some rights? It's the same with screenshots, isnt that technically illegal? In most terms and conditions it says 'in whole or in part' - Does that include screenshots or not? The law is a funny thing, its hard to understand and I guess it depends on how fussy the company in question is going to be. Like I say, I'm no expert, far from Last edited by WOC_Admin; 28 May 2003 at 01:34.

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24 May 2003, 12:55	#2
wakeupbomb Amiga Collector Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Leeds, England Age: 39 Posts: 191	That's really crap The internet fascists strike again

24 May 2003, 20:19	#3
Mr Creosote Evil Mastermind Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Home Posts: 740	Diablo? Come on, I can virtually smell the mistake of those stupid searchbots there! If they uphold the claim of copyright of that title (as well as a few others mentioned), they're committing a crime themselves! Why do people always take their sites down completely when something like that happens?

24 May 2003, 21:46	#4
Bernd Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Germany Posts: 164	It has already been said in BTTR news that Robert L. Hunter, IV is a robot and no human beiing. These e-mails are generated automatically and check sites for keywords (game titles). For instance we were asked to remove PacMan. The game which was online, however, was a PD clone... If people get cold feet and close their sites voluntarily after receiving this standardized e-mail it is their own fault/stupidity...

28 May 2003, 11:43	#6
Mr Creosote Evil Mastermind Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Home Posts: 740	Screenshots are legal under the terms of "fair use" - you're allowed to use excerpts of any work for the sake of reviewing it. In any case, even if the letter strikes fear into someone, it would be enough to pull down the downloads of the games which actually belong to IDSA members! They can't speak for any other copyright holders, so they can't do anything about anyone offering games made by anyone not on their member list. In the case of a C64-related site, the games actually belonging to these companies should be very small.

29 May 2003, 11:42	#8
Mr Creosote Evil Mastermind Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Home Posts: 740	Exactly - if it had been the ISP, there would be a page saying something like "removed due to violation of the TOS and AUP".

30 May 2003, 00:12	#9
JudasEZT Registered User Join Date: May 2003 Location: mercury Posts: 577	how bots works?? what they do??

02 June 2003, 13:18	#11
andreas Zone Friend Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Germany Age: 50 Posts: 5,857	Someone should PERSONALLY go to these IDSA dudes and ask if this thing can't be ignored in some cases. Remember: E-mails are fruitless and will only be answered using another dumb e-mail autoresponder. This is just wasted time. Maybe a REAL letter would give more insight. Maybe they don't even know what they "land" by "scanning" "innocent" websites with their cheap script?? And yes, it IS a script. The wording is EXACTLY the same every time, only the data is variable. Too many webmasters let themselves buffalo by this stuff, I think. It's a matter of RESISTANCE, that's what it is.

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