English Amiga Board


Go Back   English Amiga Board > Main > Nostalgia & memories

 
 
Thread Tools
Old 24 November 2017, 19:27   #121
plasmab
Registered User

plasmab's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Glasgow
Posts: 1,576
Quote:
Originally Posted by idrougge View Post
Did any good ones exist?
WD177x series disk controller i believe.. basically look at the controllers the BBC B used.
plasmab is offline  
AdSense AdSense  
Old 25 November 2017, 10:29   #122
sandruzzo
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Italy/Rome
Posts: 1,109
Many things on Amiga 500 and 1000 seems be rushed. Since Amiga was kind of computer and not only consolle games, some thing with less more money should be added:

- a little bit of fast ram
- more dma slots to have Ham in Hi-res
- blitter capable of multy blitting without cpu aid
- async copper, and better design move instruction were once you've load register on copper, then with only one word you could load the data and change register with offest.
- horizontal and vertical flip for both sprites and bobs.
sandruzzo is offline  
Old 04 December 2017, 15:56   #123
alewis
Monochrome and 8 bit

 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Underbarrow, Gods Country
Age: 51
Posts: 589
Quote:
Originally Posted by ajk View Post
When the Amiga came out (the A1000) in 1985, it was hardly a budget computer though. It was quite expensive and advertised as a multimedia system, for audio, graphics design and other productivity and of course games too.

Later on the A500 could be considered a budget computer, although it still wasn't that cheap when launched.
Actually, the A1000 was a budget computer compared to likes of Kaypro and Compaq 286s at the time. From the August 1985 issue of PCW, which had the first A1000 review, here are two 286s

Kaypro 286i
Intel 80286 CPU 6MHz
512KB RAM
Single 1.2MB floppy
No hard disk
6 16bit AT slots
2 8bit XT slots
serial and parallel interfaces
Colour graphics card
Price 4136 (!!!)

Compaq 286
Intel 80286 @ 6 or 8MHz
256KB RAM
Single 1.2MB floppy
same expansion slots
No price finalised

BBC Model B 32MB RAM - 339. With single disk drive 420
Sony 10 Word Processor 'from 2595 inc printer" plus VAT @15%
Olivetti M24 16bit 8086@8MHz, 128K RAM 1499 plus VAT @15%

Guy Kewney's article on the A1000 opened with "I'm sure I'm in for a terrible disappointment with the Amiga, because no computer could quite live up to the effect this one has already had on me... it does multi-tasking. It has colour. It uses a mouse and icons. Its fast. It has plenty of storage. And it costs around $1200 in the US without display but including one disk"

"In perspective
The Amiga, at $1500 for a colour system, is obviously going to be a business system first and foremost"

It was budget compared to a 286 in 1985. It was budget compared even to a word processor. It was only "costly" compared to the leading 8bit 'home micro-computers" of the time.
alewis is offline  
Old 04 December 2017, 17:23   #124
plasmab
Registered User

plasmab's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Glasgow
Posts: 1,576
BBC B was 32Kb ram, not 32MB
plasmab is offline  
Old 06 December 2017, 20:52   #125
alewis
Monochrome and 8 bit

 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Underbarrow, Gods Country
Age: 51
Posts: 589
Quote:
Originally Posted by plasmab View Post
BBC B was 32Kb ram, not 32MB
Fingeritus on my part, trying to use an iPad for writing is not recommended.
alewis is offline  
Old 06 December 2017, 21:12   #126
Juz400
Registered User

 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: London
Posts: 25
Crikey!
Thinking of a BBC B with 32MB of RAM in the 1980`s
The familiar paving slab with red keys would have become a patio!
Juz400 is offline  
Old 07 December 2017, 07:26   #127
Foebane
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Cardiff, UK
Posts: 600
I was just thinking of that, a 32Mb BBC Micro! HOT DAMN!
Foebane is offline  
Old 07 December 2017, 10:05   #128
drHirudo
Amiga user
drHirudo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Sofia / Bulgaria
Posts: 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foebane View Post
I was just thinking of that, a 32Mb BBC Micro! HOT DAMN!
Amiga with 32 MB RAM in 1985 would be even hotter. But according to memory prices in 1985 from http://jcmit.net/memoryprice.htm it would have costed 32*300 = 9600$ for the memory alone (Not that expensive for business, but still not for home use). Also add that the need for 68010 or even 68012 and the price would go over 15000$ for a complete system, so it would be fit only for business use.
drHirudo is offline  
Old 07 December 2017, 12:57   #129
Glen M
Registered User

 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Belfast
Posts: 84
Biggest mistake made..... easy....

Not selling Amiga to David Pleasance.
Glen M is offline  
Old 07 December 2017, 13:32   #130
idrougge
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Stockholm
Posts: 3,080
Quote:
Originally Posted by plasmab View Post
WD177x series disk controller i believe.. basically look at the controllers the BBC B used.
That's what the ST used. I don't see in what way the ST handles disks better.
idrougge is offline  
Old 07 December 2017, 13:41   #131
plasmab
Registered User

plasmab's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Glasgow
Posts: 1,576
Standard file format, standard drives and an off the shelf chip. Rolling your own disc controller and is madness. I guess they had a better file system planned but the OFS was a rush job at the last minute.
plasmab is offline  
Old 07 December 2017, 21:01   #132
Foebane
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Cardiff, UK
Posts: 600
One thing: Direct Memory Access. Modern PCs have it, yet only one type of memory is required. The Amiga pioneered DMA (or was at least one of the first) and yet it required two or even three types of memory at least. Why?
Foebane is offline  
Old 07 December 2017, 21:28   #133
Juz400
Registered User

 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: London
Posts: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by plasmab View Post
Standard file format, standard drives and an off the shelf chip. Rolling your own disc controller and is madness. I guess they had a better file system planned but the OFS was a rush job at the last minute.
Buying an off the shelf chip and drive could have been easier and cheaper to start with but when you are fabbing your own chips would that have been cheaper once you go over 100k units?
Were there licencing issues?
If you use the off the shelf, would you have to licence the code from WD to read/write to the format in your OS?
CBM didnt like to spend money on that sort of thing
Juz400 is offline  
Old 07 December 2017, 21:34   #134
Daedalus
Registered User

Daedalus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Dublin, then Glasgow
Posts: 2,342
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foebane View Post
One thing: Direct Memory Access. Modern PCs have it, yet only one type of memory is required. The Amiga pioneered DMA (or was at least one of the first) and yet it required two or even three types of memory at least. Why?
I think it's actually relatively clever - each separate section of memory is capable of DMA independently, which means that SCSI controllers can DMA directly into fast RAM while the chipset DMAs directly into chip RAM, for example. Doing it that way meant two things: first, the custom chipset were simplified and therefore cheaper. Mainboards were also cheaper without needing a full 32-bit address bus to every chip. And second, the limited bandwidth of standard memory buses of the time wasn't a complete bottleneck. Of course, the downsides were that chip RAM was never increased beyond 2MB, but an entire system of chip RAM would be far, far slower than the equivalent expanded Amiga.
Daedalus is online now  
Old 08 December 2017, 02:40   #135
robinsonb5
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Norfolk, UK
Posts: 522
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foebane View Post
One thing: Direct Memory Access. Modern PCs have it, yet only one type of memory is required.
Not strictly true once you consider that PC graphics cards have their own video memory, which could be considered roughly equivalent to the Amiga's chip memory. (OK, in more recent years onboard graphics chipsets use a portion of main system memory instead of their own memory on a separate bus - and this is precisely why their performance is poor.)
robinsonb5 is online now  
Old 08 December 2017, 02:55   #136
Foebane
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Cardiff, UK
Posts: 600
Quote:
Originally Posted by robinsonb5 View Post
Not strictly true once you consider that PC graphics cards have their own video memory, which could be considered roughly equivalent to the Amiga's chip memory.
EXCELLENT point, never realised that until you pointed it out!
Foebane is offline  
Old 08 December 2017, 04:01   #137
sandruzzo
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Italy/Rome
Posts: 1,109
Amiga Lacked of enought memory cycles to show Ham6 in hires
sandruzzo is offline  
Old 08 December 2017, 05:53   #138
ruinashiro
Registered User

 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Tokyo, Japan
Posts: 15
Ham6 in hires happened all the time. Including sliced ham/dynamic ham in ~736x520 or whatever the overscan settings were for hires at the time.

Or do you mean in video motion?

[ Show youtube player ]
ruinashiro is offline  
Old 08 December 2017, 07:30   #139
sandruzzo
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Italy/Rome
Posts: 1,109
Quote:
Originally Posted by ruinashiro View Post
Ham6 in hires happened all the time. Including sliced ham/dynamic ham in ~736x520 or whatever the overscan settings were for hires at the time.

Or do you mean in video motion?

[ Show youtube player ]
I know it, but I was talking about Ham6 with 6 planes, since Amiga was labeled as home computer.
sandruzzo is offline  
Old 08 December 2017, 07:40   #140
McTrinsic
Registered User

 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Germany
Posts: 302
Wow.
Is that Demo available somewhere?
McTrinsic is online now  
AdSense AdSense  
 


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Non-Amiga things that remind you of Amiga things? Fingerlickin_B Retrogaming General Discussion 831 Yesterday 02:17
Why game companies didn't make better games for Amiga ancalimon Retrogaming General Discussion 35 17 July 2017 13:27
wanting to experiment, using Amiga (emulator) as my day to day machine, need advice mmace New to Emulation or Amiga scene 12 17 August 2013 19:16
New Year Day = throw CD32 in the dishwasher day Paul_s Hardware mods 16 03 January 2009 20:45
Amazing things you've done with your Amiga mr_a500 Amiga scene 67 05 July 2007 20:45

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 15:47.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Page generated in 0.40909 seconds with 14 queries