CD32 - Is NTSC/PAL switch and 50/60 switch possible?

21 September 2008, 03:28

Its killing me to not be able to add a CD32 to my console collection, simply because even with a NTSC CD32, the PAL games are going to output PAL, and my American TV only takes NTSC/60hz, and doesn't take RGB.

So my question, is, is there a way to get past all this and make a NTSC/PAL switch and a 50/60 switch on a NTSC cd32?

I've read recent stuff here about Amigas and S-Video, etc. but I'm not sure if any of that would solve this problem.

If there's a way to do it, I know someone who might be willing to do it for me (fingers crossed)

I'm not being lazy, I've read a *lot* about NTSC/60 output and the Amiga CD32, including the following:

http://www.faqs.org/faqs/amiga/CD32-FAQ/part2/

and also I know about the "mouse NTSC/PAL changing trick", which also doesn't solve the problem...

Thanks

Zetr0 · 21 September 2008, 03:46

@missyrelm

alas, without some form of colour conversion (from PAL to NTSC) I am afraid there is not

have a look at this PAL to NTSC converter, now i dont know anything about this unit or its type I am afraid to say, however it would solve your purpose, albeit in composite.

Have a look around if you spot something your unsure of, just post back here and we can help with advice

hope that helps.

illy5603 · 21 September 2008, 04:17

@Missyrelm - I am in Norcal too, good to see another! Your situation is no different than running any other PAL console, or any other PAL Amiga for that matter on an NTSC TV. You will get screen roll or a black and white display when you boot PAL games depending on what device your are connecting to. A 1084 should work but why would anyone want to look at one of those nowadays?

Two options I have considered:

1) Buy a PAL CD32 and display it on a multisystem TV set. Hooking up an NTSC CD32 booted in PAL on a multisystem TV will give you a black and white image.
2) Connect a PAL CD32 to an S-Video / Composite to VGA converter box and play it on a device that takes VGA input, in my case our 61" samsung LCD DLP. :P Remember, connecting an NTSC CD32 to one of these devices will give you a black and white image no matter how it is booted.

I am hoping my indivision AGA board will fix all of this on my NTSC A1200 as it should convert everything, PAL or NTSC to VGA for me, but I will not be able to report on this till it comes in next week.

NTSC systems suck for playing PAL games, that is the bottom line.

@Zetr0 - I think the problem would be that when the NTSC Amiga boots into PAL mode it only changes the scan frequency and not the color system which will result in a black and white image even with the converter. I could be mistaken, but I believe this to be the case.

Chain · 09 October 2008, 10:38

there is an option to shorten one resistor wit the switch and you have pal/ntsc choice. ive saw this hack somewhere, wit detailed pics

needs to be googled

Fingerlickin_B · 09 October 2008, 12:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chain

there is an option to shorten one resistor wit the switch and you have pal/ntsc choice. ive saw this hack somewhere, wit detailed pics

needs to be googled

Alex certainly has the best Googling skills...but will he rise to the challenge?

PZ.

illy5603 · 09 October 2008, 17:42

An NTSC CD32 forced to boot in PAL mode with a hardware mod would still be black and white on a PAL television as the colour system is not being changed, just the display frequency.

Fingerlickin_B · 09 October 2008, 23:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by illy5603

An NTSC CD32 forced to boot in PAL mode with a hardware mod would still be black and white on a PAL television as the colour system is not being changed, just the display frequency.

Erm, why would you say that?!?!

I have a standard NTSC CD32, all my TVs are PAL & it displays colour on all of them

The problem with NTSC is that it "overfills" the screen...so you can't see everything...the edges are "cut off".

PZ.

Cammy · 10 October 2008, 00:40

Someone needs to make a list of which games work on an NTSC CD32. Perhaps the list should have three columns:

* Boots in NTSC and fits on screen

* Boots in NTSC but disappears offscreen (larger than 320x200)

* Doesn't boot in NTSC and is therefore useless to common NTSC CD32 users.

Surely someone out there has all the CD32 games (maybe they found them on a FTP or Torrent, or bought them all on eBay, who knows) and also has a NTSC CD32 that they can test the games on.

Missyrelm, even though most games were designed for PAL CD32s, there are still several games that will work no problem on a NTSC CD32, we just need to compile a complete list first, to help you all out. Also, using the upcoming game selector menus, we can compile CDs FILLED with awesome, NTSC-compatible Amiga games. In fact, as soon as KG's Menu or the new AGS is finished, that should be top priority, a NTSC Amiga game compilation CD for the NTSC CD32s that are flooding the market now.

Also, Underground Arcade will also always try to support NTSC CD32 owners with all our upcoming games.

Fingerlickin_B · 10 October 2008, 01:15

Hey Cammy, I have a fairly decent collection, but not enough time (or good enough memory) to tell you which ones go off-screen (well, most do to be honest).

I'll list the ones I know to actually work on an NTSC machine tonight though

PZ.

10 October 2008, 02:07

Maybe I can help, I am almost finished downloading 9 gigs of CD32 games, I can go through them and create a list of which games run ok, badly and not at all on an NTSC system. I am not working at the moment so I have the time, then we could create a NTSC compilation disc.

I guess for the CD32 game menu creator it will run on a stock A1200 with extra ram?

Cammy · 10 October 2008, 05:46

That's fantastic news, guys, let's get productive and make a list, once and for all! Then we can post the list all over the web so anyone can search and find it. If I had time, I'd make an Amiga games website to review new/recent games, and have other useful info like this NTSC compatibility ist on there, and if this hack is possible, have a guide for that too.

It's a shame people are forced to ask about these things on forums because there's no other info online (not that a new member isn't a good thing). But the Amiga community is the best in the world when it comes to resourcefulness, and with so many useful Amiga sites out there already, it's confusing that something like this hasn't already been made.

I'm sorry if I'm not making much sense, but I've been talking to a lot of people on IRC and MSN about NTSC CD32s lately and they're all in the dark about what they can do with them.

10 October 2008, 08:47

Funny you should say that, I have just started working on a new site, www.cd32gamer.com, thought might be time to get a proper resource up about the cd32, issues, game downloads and stuff. I am looking to start doing a remake of Space Taxi for the CD32, I am ok at graphics but my programming is bollocks so if anyone is interested on working on the project please feel free to pm me. I think the CD32 is one of the few really exciting consoles to work on as there is still so much it can do.

Fingerlickin_B · 10 October 2008, 09:33

Here is my list.

The following are PAL games that I know to run on my standard NTSC CD32:

Akira
Alfred Chicken
Alien Breed SE
Alien Breed - Tower Assault
All Terrain Racing
Arabian Nights
Banshee
Battletoads
Beavers
Beneath a Steel Sky
Black Viper
Bubba 'n' Stix
Bubble & Squeak
Cannon Fodder
Cedric (German)
Chambers of Shaolin
Chuck Rock
D-generation
Darkseed
Deep Core
Dragonstone
Exile
Fields of Glory
Fire Force
Flink
Fly Harder
Frontier Elite II
Global Effect
Gloom
Gulp!
International Karate
James Pond III
Jungle Strike
Kid Chaos
The Last Ninja III
The Lost Vikings
Lotus Trilogy
Max Rally
Mean Arenas
Morph
Naughty Ones
Out to Lunch
Overkill
Pinball Fantasies
Premiere
Prey
Project-X SE
Quik the Thunder Rabbit
Rise of The Robots
Roadkill
Sabre Team
Seven Gates of Jambala
Skeleton Krew
Subwar 2050
Super Frog
Super Putty
Syndicate
Total Carnage
Turbo Trax
UFO Enemy Unknown
Ultimate Super Skidmarks
Vital Light
Wendetta (edit - Wendetta runs out of memory after loading first 2 intro screens)
Wrath of The Demon
Xenon II (CDTV).

These are all the disks in my NTSC "for playing" box, so they are guaranteed to work on NTSC machines

PZ.

Cammy · 10 October 2008, 16:00

Do any of these games cut parts of the screen off when running in NTSC?

illy5603 · 11 October 2008, 20:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fingerlickin_B

Erm, why would you say that?!?!

I have a standard NTSC CD32, all my TVs are PAL & it displays colour on all of them

The problem with NTSC is that it "overfills" the screen...so you can't see everything...the edges are "cut off".

PZ.

Are you booting the NTSC CD32 in PAL mode or leaving it in NTSC mode? Boot your CD32 in PAL mode and tell me if it is in colour. I understand PAL TV sets can display NTSC but you may still have goofy screen centering and sound issues. I know for a fact that pinball dreams and cannon fodder played on native NTSC units in NTSC mode have horrible sound issues. I think it is silly to make a list of games that "run" on NTSC CD32's. You should make a list of games that "run correctly". It will be a LOT smaller. The real issue here is the lack of native NTSC games for the CD32.

I do not have a PAL TV. I live in California and have owned an NTSC CD32 and left in NTSC mode most games ran like garbage. Booting in Pal mode didn't work at all on my TV and worked OK on my 1084S back in the day. The assistance I am trying to provide to people with PAL TV's wanting to play with Native NTSC device comes mostly from this thread where colour system etc are explained.

Cammy · 12 October 2008, 04:50

illy, since you have owned a NTSC CD32, perhaps you can help us make a list then? We suggested the list have different catagories, including one for the short list of games that "run correctly". So if you can remember any that DO run correctly, we can add those to the list. We can now add Pinball Dreams and Cannon Fodder to the "does not work properly" list then.

illy5603 · 12 October 2008, 08:35

@Cammy,

Well, I am afraid I won't be of much help because I bought the CD32 in 1995 or so and sold it a few months later as most games were unacceptable. I currently own an NTSC Amiga 1200 and the reason it works so well is because the indivision AGA board converts everything to VGA so there is no colour system issues. I get pal timing in a centered VGA screen. I manually boot my A1200 in PAL mode every time I boot with the two mouse buttons. Most games will work great if booted in PAL mode from an NTSC 1200 / CD32, the question is will it be in colour or not for you guys with PAL TV sets.

Fingerlickin_B · 13 October 2008, 00:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cammy

Do any of these games cut parts of the screen off when running in NTSC?

A lot of them do, but not as much when run in PAL mode.

PZ.

Fingerlickin_B · 13 October 2008, 00:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by illy5603

Are you booting the NTSC CD32 in PAL mode or leaving it in NTSC mode? Boot your CD32 in PAL mode and tell me if it is in colour. I understand PAL TV sets can display NTSC but you may still have goofy screen centering and sound issues. I know for a fact that pinball dreams and cannon fodder played on native NTSC units in NTSC mode have horrible sound issues. I think it is silly to make a list of games that "run" on NTSC CD32's. You should make a list of games that "run correctly". It will be a LOT smaller. The real issue here is the lack of native NTSC games for the CD32.

I do not have a PAL TV. I live in California and have owned an NTSC CD32 and left in NTSC mode most games ran like garbage. Booting in Pal mode didn't work at all on my TV and worked OK on my 1084S back in the day. The assistance I am trying to provide to people with PAL TV's wanting to play with Native NTSC device comes mostly from this thread where colour system etc are explained.

Yep, it runs colour in both NTSC & PAL modes.

PZ.

r.cade · 21 November 2008, 01:42

I use an NTSC CD32 with PAL games hooked to a regular television (composite or s-video works). Just hook a mouse to port 2, hold both mouse buttons, and select PAL from display options.

Works fine. Full color. My TV seems to like the 50Hz signal OK and it's just a cheap WalMart Apex 20" TV.

21 September 2008, 03:28	#1
missyrelm Posts: n/a	CD32 - Is NTSC/PAL switch and 50/60 switch possible? Its killing me to not be able to add a CD32 to my console collection, simply because even with a NTSC CD32, the PAL games are going to output PAL, and my American TV only takes NTSC/60hz, and doesn't take RGB. So my question, is, is there a way to get past all this and make a NTSC/PAL switch and a 50/60 switch on a NTSC cd32? I've read recent stuff here about Amigas and S-Video, etc. but I'm not sure if any of that would solve this problem. If there's a way to do it, I know someone who might be willing to do it for me (fingers crossed) I'm not being lazy, I've read a lot about NTSC/60 output and the Amiga CD32, including the following: http://www.faqs.org/faqs/amiga/CD32-FAQ/part2/ and also I know about the "mouse NTSC/PAL changing trick", which also doesn't solve the problem... Thanks

21 September 2008, 04:17	#3
illy5603 Registered User Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: SPaT CiTY Posts: 557	@Missyrelm - I am in Norcal too, good to see another! Your situation is no different than running any other PAL console, or any other PAL Amiga for that matter on an NTSC TV. You will get screen roll or a black and white display when you boot PAL games depending on what device your are connecting to. A 1084 should work but why would anyone want to look at one of those nowadays? Two options I have considered: 1) Buy a PAL CD32 and display it on a multisystem TV set. Hooking up an NTSC CD32 booted in PAL on a multisystem TV will give you a black and white image. 2) Connect a PAL CD32 to an S-Video / Composite to VGA converter box and play it on a device that takes VGA input, in my case our 61" samsung LCD DLP. :P Remember, connecting an NTSC CD32 to one of these devices will give you a black and white image no matter how it is booted. I am hoping my indivision AGA board will fix all of this on my NTSC A1200 as it should convert everything, PAL or NTSC to VGA for me, but I will not be able to report on this till it comes in next week. NTSC systems suck for playing PAL games, that is the bottom line. @Zetr0 - I think the problem would be that when the NTSC Amiga boots into PAL mode it only changes the scan frequency and not the color system which will result in a black and white image even with the converter. I could be mistaken, but I believe this to be the case. Last edited by illy5603; 21 September 2008 at 09:54.

10 October 2008, 09:33	#13
Fingerlickin_B Amiga Nut Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Belco, Australia Posts: 2,242	Here is my list. The following are PAL games that I know to run on my standard NTSC CD32: Akira Alfred Chicken Alien Breed SE Alien Breed - Tower Assault All Terrain Racing Arabian Nights Banshee Battletoads Beavers Beneath a Steel Sky Black Viper Bubba 'n' Stix Bubble & Squeak Cannon Fodder Cedric (German) Chambers of Shaolin Chuck Rock D-generation Darkseed Deep Core Dragonstone Exile Fields of Glory Fire Force Flink Fly Harder Frontier Elite II Global Effect Gloom Gulp! International Karate James Pond III Jungle Strike Kid Chaos The Last Ninja III The Lost Vikings Lotus Trilogy Max Rally Mean Arenas Morph Naughty Ones Out to Lunch Overkill Pinball Fantasies Premiere Prey Project-X SE Quik the Thunder Rabbit Rise of The Robots Roadkill Sabre Team Seven Gates of Jambala Skeleton Krew Subwar 2050 Super Frog Super Putty Syndicate Total Carnage Turbo Trax UFO Enemy Unknown Ultimate Super Skidmarks Vital Light Wendetta (edit - Wendetta runs out of memory after loading first 2 intro screens) Wrath of The Demon Xenon II (CDTV). These are all the disks in my NTSC "for playing" box, so they are guaranteed to work on NTSC machines PZ. Last edited by Fingerlickin_B; 21 May 2009 at 13:33.

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21 September 2008, 03:46	#2
Zetr0 Ya' like it Retr0? Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: United Kingdom Age: 49 Posts: 9,768	@missyrelm alas, without some form of colour conversion (from PAL to NTSC) I am afraid there is not have a look at this PAL to NTSC converter, now i dont know anything about this unit or its type I am afraid to say, however it would solve your purpose, albeit in composite. Have a look around if you spot something your unsure of, just post back here and we can help with advice hope that helps.

09 October 2008, 10:38	#4
Chain A-Collector, repairments Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Czech Rep. Age: 50 Posts: 1,536	there is an option to shorten one resistor wit the switch and you have pal/ntsc choice. ive saw this hack somewhere, wit detailed pics needs to be googled

09 October 2008, 17:42	#6
illy5603 Registered User Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: SPaT CiTY Posts: 557	An NTSC CD32 forced to boot in PAL mode with a hardware mod would still be black and white on a PAL television as the colour system is not being changed, just the display frequency.

10 October 2008, 00:40	#8
Cammy Registered User Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Tasmania, Australia Age: 39 Posts: 1,189	Someone needs to make a list of which games work on an NTSC CD32. Perhaps the list should have three columns: * Boots in NTSC and fits on screen * Boots in NTSC but disappears offscreen (larger than 320x200) * Doesn't boot in NTSC and is therefore useless to common NTSC CD32 users. Surely someone out there has all the CD32 games (maybe they found them on a FTP or Torrent, or bought them all on eBay, who knows) and also has a NTSC CD32 that they can test the games on. Missyrelm, even though most games were designed for PAL CD32s, there are still several games that will work no problem on a NTSC CD32, we just need to compile a complete list first, to help you all out. Also, using the upcoming game selector menus, we can compile CDs FILLED with awesome, NTSC-compatible Amiga games. In fact, as soon as KG's Menu or the new AGS is finished, that should be top priority, a NTSC Amiga game compilation CD for the NTSC CD32s that are flooding the market now. Also, Underground Arcade will also always try to support NTSC CD32 owners with all our upcoming games.

10 October 2008, 01:15	#9
Fingerlickin_B Amiga Nut Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Belco, Australia Posts: 2,242	Hey Cammy, I have a fairly decent collection, but not enough time (or good enough memory) to tell you which ones go off-screen (well, most do to be honest). I'll list the ones I know to actually work on an NTSC machine tonight though PZ.

10 October 2008, 02:07	#10
ami_junkie Posts: n/a	Maybe I can help, I am almost finished downloading 9 gigs of CD32 games, I can go through them and create a list of which games run ok, badly and not at all on an NTSC system. I am not working at the moment so I have the time, then we could create a NTSC compilation disc. I guess for the CD32 game menu creator it will run on a stock A1200 with extra ram?

10 October 2008, 05:46	#11
Cammy Registered User Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Tasmania, Australia Age: 39 Posts: 1,189	That's fantastic news, guys, let's get productive and make a list, once and for all! Then we can post the list all over the web so anyone can search and find it. If I had time, I'd make an Amiga games website to review new/recent games, and have other useful info like this NTSC compatibility ist on there, and if this hack is possible, have a guide for that too. It's a shame people are forced to ask about these things on forums because there's no other info online (not that a new member isn't a good thing). But the Amiga community is the best in the world when it comes to resourcefulness, and with so many useful Amiga sites out there already, it's confusing that something like this hasn't already been made. I'm sorry if I'm not making much sense, but I've been talking to a lot of people on IRC and MSN about NTSC CD32s lately and they're all in the dark about what they can do with them.

10 October 2008, 08:47	#12
ami_junkie Posts: n/a	Funny you should say that, I have just started working on a new site, www.cd32gamer.com, thought might be time to get a proper resource up about the cd32, issues, game downloads and stuff. I am looking to start doing a remake of Space Taxi for the CD32, I am ok at graphics but my programming is bollocks so if anyone is interested on working on the project please feel free to pm me. I think the CD32 is one of the few really exciting consoles to work on as there is still so much it can do.

10 October 2008, 16:00	#14
Cammy Registered User Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Tasmania, Australia Age: 39 Posts: 1,189	Do any of these games cut parts of the screen off when running in NTSC?

12 October 2008, 04:50	#16
Cammy Registered User Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Tasmania, Australia Age: 39 Posts: 1,189	illy, since you have owned a NTSC CD32, perhaps you can help us make a list then? We suggested the list have different catagories, including one for the short list of games that "run correctly". So if you can remember any that DO run correctly, we can add those to the list. We can now add Pinball Dreams and Cannon Fodder to the "does not work properly" list then.

12 October 2008, 08:35	#17
illy5603 Registered User Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: SPaT CiTY Posts: 557	@Cammy, Well, I am afraid I won't be of much help because I bought the CD32 in 1995 or so and sold it a few months later as most games were unacceptable. I currently own an NTSC Amiga 1200 and the reason it works so well is because the indivision AGA board converts everything to VGA so there is no colour system issues. I get pal timing in a centered VGA screen. I manually boot my A1200 in PAL mode every time I boot with the two mouse buttons. Most games will work great if booted in PAL mode from an NTSC 1200 / CD32, the question is will it be in colour or not for you guys with PAL TV sets.

21 November 2008, 01:42	#20
r.cade Registered User Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Augusta, Georgia, USA Posts: 548	I use an NTSC CD32 with PAL games hooked to a regular television (composite or s-video works). Just hook a mouse to port 2, hold both mouse buttons, and select PAL from display options. Works fine. Full color. My TV seems to like the 50Hz signal OK and it's just a cheap WalMart Apex 20" TV.

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