What tools for getting started?

Ledfoot · 12 December 2018, 01:26

Hey gang,

I'm wanting to get back to writing code, and was thinking I'd like to get into Amiga programming. I'd like to do the dev directly on the Amiga, and probably in C++ (and maybe some Assembly), so no cross-compiling - I want to use the actual tools directly on the Amiga, code on it, etc.

This is for OS 3.1.x and 3.9...A1200 wth Blizzard 1230, Mathcoproccor and 128 MB fast ram.

What tools should I be looking for? I remember there being SAS/C back in the day, but don't know if that does C++. I've gotten my hands on some old Amiga programming books from back in the day as well, so I have some reference materials.

What about for Assembly? Debugging? A good editor (assuming there's nothing approaching an IDE...)

(Yeah, I've been spoiled as a Java developer using Netbeans and Eclipse for the last 20 years...)

MartinW · 12 December 2018, 02:13

Ditto (but with IntelliJ).

What Amiga is it you're planning on using because I can tell you from trying myself that anything remotely "normal" will be horrible and really drive you towards cross compiling. I eventually managed to build a machine with 68060 running at 100Mhz and RTG graphics at 1024x768 and I could see myself doing C / C++ on this. I'd probably still drop the resolution down to 800x600 to make the scrolling speed more bearable.

I'm not saying you can't do it with a more classic experience, especially if you just want to use a classic assembler but you'll likely find it horrible).

I can't really offer much wisdom as I've not done much but what little I did do, I used Storm C as it had a semblance of an IDE. However, even setting up fonts and colours etc., will show you just how spoilt we have become.

I'll be interested in also seeing what other replies there are as I may have another go myself.

arcanist · 12 December 2018, 02:14

Back in the day I quite liked Storm C. It was a fairly well integrated IDE. I think it's on the 2.1 developer CD.

If you have an MMU then MuForce and MuGuardianAngel are very useful.

Ledfoot · 12 December 2018, 02:31

Come on, it can't be THAT bad. I remember doing some of my college programming assignments in Pascal on my Amiga 500 back in the day. I mean, geez, they wrote applications and games for the Amiga ON Amigas after all! It can't be THAT bad!

MartinW · 12 December 2018, 02:38

Well back in the day there wasn't a massive amount of choice!

As Arcanist suggests, give StormC a try just to get a feel for it. I don't recall how well regarded it is for coding, but it does have a reasonable stab at an IDE, or integrated set of tools at least with the concept of projects.

Honestly, I get what you're saying. I'd like to have a decent Native Amiga IDE / Environment as well.

arcanist · 12 December 2018, 02:56

Back in the day serious non-OS friendly development was done with two systems. One (not necessarily an Amiga but could be) ran the IDE and the other would run the program, with the two communicating through a serial connection.

One of the older tools for this was ROMWack, later superseded by SAD.

But it's perfectly possible to develop and run on one system. It's just a bit annoying with the lack of memory protection. MuForce helps greatly if you have a full (MMU-capable) 030. Over the last six months I've been cross-compiling with GCC/Linux into FS-UAE and the number of times I've hit the "snapshot load" button is ridiculous.

Ledfoot · 12 December 2018, 02:57

I obviously don't expect a modern experience with integrated Dev tools, debuggers, etc. I don't expect it to be blazingly fast compiling either - ~10 minute builds I can live with for reasonable size projects, more for bigger ones. I realize we're working with a fraction of the computing power we have today, but we're also building significantly smaller applications with a LOT less libraries to link in and so on.

Leffmann · 12 December 2018, 12:42

SAS/C has most of what you're looking for, the editor being the weakest part:

http://eab.abime.net/showpost.php?p=1079045&postcount=7

Daedalus · 12 December 2018, 13:45

CubicIDE gives a reasonable IDE for classic machines, and is based around GoldEd (which you can of course use separately to replace an old editor if you wish).

nogginthenog · 12 December 2018, 19:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcanist

One of the older tools for this was ROMWack, later superseded by SAD.

Later superseded by ROMWack (OS3.1.4)...

I used GCC 2.9.5 on my 060. Wrote/ported C code only. Worked OK. C++ in this version is going to be slow and very outdated.

You're better off using Bebbo's GCC v6 cross-compiler.
If you have ethernet or wifi you can compile to a shared drive.

For assembly I used Devpac (IDE with debugger) which runs fine even on a basic A500 (HD & extra ram of course).

12 December 2018, 01:26	#1
Ledfoot Registered User Join Date: Oct 2018 Location: Cherry Hill, NJ USA Posts: 85	What tools for getting started? Hey gang, I'm wanting to get back to writing code, and was thinking I'd like to get into Amiga programming. I'd like to do the dev directly on the Amiga, and probably in C++ (and maybe some Assembly), so no cross-compiling - I want to use the actual tools directly on the Amiga, code on it, etc. This is for OS 3.1.x and 3.9...A1200 wth Blizzard 1230, Mathcoproccor and 128 MB fast ram. What tools should I be looking for? I remember there being SAS/C back in the day, but don't know if that does C++. I've gotten my hands on some old Amiga programming books from back in the day as well, so I have some reference materials. What about for Assembly? Debugging? A good editor (assuming there's nothing approaching an IDE...) (Yeah, I've been spoiled as a Java developer using Netbeans and Eclipse for the last 20 years...) Last edited by Ledfoot; 12 December 2018 at 02:19.

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12 December 2018, 02:13	#2
MartinW Registered User Join Date: Mar 2017 Location: Minehead / UK Posts: 608	Ditto (but with IntelliJ). What Amiga is it you're planning on using because I can tell you from trying myself that anything remotely "normal" will be horrible and really drive you towards cross compiling. I eventually managed to build a machine with 68060 running at 100Mhz and RTG graphics at 1024x768 and I could see myself doing C / C++ on this. I'd probably still drop the resolution down to 800x600 to make the scrolling speed more bearable. I'm not saying you can't do it with a more classic experience, especially if you just want to use a classic assembler but you'll likely find it horrible). I can't really offer much wisdom as I've not done much but what little I did do, I used Storm C as it had a semblance of an IDE. However, even setting up fonts and colours etc., will show you just how spoilt we have become. I'll be interested in also seeing what other replies there are as I may have another go myself.

12 December 2018, 02:14	#3
arcanist Registered User Join Date: Dec 2017 Location: Austin, TX Age: 41 Posts: 405	Back in the day I quite liked Storm C. It was a fairly well integrated IDE. I think it's on the 2.1 developer CD. If you have an MMU then MuForce and MuGuardianAngel are very useful.

12 December 2018, 02:31	#4
Ledfoot Registered User Join Date: Oct 2018 Location: Cherry Hill, NJ USA Posts: 85	Come on, it can't be THAT bad. I remember doing some of my college programming assignments in Pascal on my Amiga 500 back in the day. I mean, geez, they wrote applications and games for the Amiga ON Amigas after all! It can't be THAT bad!

12 December 2018, 02:38	#5
MartinW Registered User Join Date: Mar 2017 Location: Minehead / UK Posts: 608	Well back in the day there wasn't a massive amount of choice! As Arcanist suggests, give StormC a try just to get a feel for it. I don't recall how well regarded it is for coding, but it does have a reasonable stab at an IDE, or integrated set of tools at least with the concept of projects. Honestly, I get what you're saying. I'd like to have a decent Native Amiga IDE / Environment as well.

12 December 2018, 02:56	#6
arcanist Registered User Join Date: Dec 2017 Location: Austin, TX Age: 41 Posts: 405	Back in the day serious non-OS friendly development was done with two systems. One (not necessarily an Amiga but could be) ran the IDE and the other would run the program, with the two communicating through a serial connection. One of the older tools for this was ROMWack, later superseded by SAD. But it's perfectly possible to develop and run on one system. It's just a bit annoying with the lack of memory protection. MuForce helps greatly if you have a full (MMU-capable) 030. Over the last six months I've been cross-compiling with GCC/Linux into FS-UAE and the number of times I've hit the "snapshot load" button is ridiculous.

12 December 2018, 02:57	#7
Ledfoot Registered User Join Date: Oct 2018 Location: Cherry Hill, NJ USA Posts: 85	I obviously don't expect a modern experience with integrated Dev tools, debuggers, etc. I don't expect it to be blazingly fast compiling either - ~10 minute builds I can live with for reasonable size projects, more for bigger ones. I realize we're working with a fraction of the computing power we have today, but we're also building significantly smaller applications with a LOT less libraries to link in and so on.

12 December 2018, 12:42	#8
Leffmann Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Sweden Posts: 2,269	SAS/C has most of what you're looking for, the editor being the weakest part: http://eab.abime.net/showpost.php?p=1079045&postcount=7

12 December 2018, 13:45	#9
Daedalus Registered User Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Dublin, then Glasgow Posts: 6,334	CubicIDE gives a reasonable IDE for classic machines, and is based around GoldEd (which you can of course use separately to replace an old editor if you wish).

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