Why are platform games on the Amiga really mediocre? - Page 4

laffer · 03 October 2009, 22:05

Depends on when you bought the Amiga, I guess. If you got an Amiga in '85 or '87, then it's obviously different.

Retro-Nerd · 03 October 2009, 22:14

Europe was focused on computer games. The SMS had a little success, the NES was pretty obsolete here. The 8-bit computers dominated the market at that time. Starting with the Mega Drive release the market moved slowly in the console direction.

prowler · 03 October 2009, 22:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Retro-Nerd

Starting with the Mega Drive release the market moved slowly in the console direction.

Yes, I would agree. With hindsight, that seems to have been the turning point.

hitm4n · 03 October 2009, 22:40

Ruff N Tumble is one of the best platformers i've ever enjoyed... Simply fantastic gameplay.

Paul_s · 03 October 2009, 22:59

My favourite genre on the Amiga are side way scrollers/platformers.

Soccerkid
Premiere
Fire N Ice
Superfrog
Arabian Nights
Rolling Thunder II
Robocop

& many many others I forget the names of (those above my favourites

)

Those who dare slag off Superfrog should be forced to eat black puddings & drink Lucozade forever.

/Thread closed.

Dastardly · 03 October 2009, 23:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul_s

Those who dare slag off Superfrog should be forced to eat black puddings & drink Lucozade forever.

/Thread closed.

Haha! Either is preferable to playing Super-frog. I'd drink a black pudding/lucozade smoothie before playing that soul-less crap

petran · 04 October 2009, 16:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Retro-Nerd

Europe was focused on computer games. The SMS had a little success, the NES was pretty obsolete here. The 8-bit computers dominated the market at that time. Starting with the Mega Drive release the market moved slowly in the console direction.

Quote:

Originally Posted by prowler

Yes, I would agree. With hindsight, that seems to have been the turning point.

The problem was rather with the target groups.

The NES was hugely successful mainly at the young age groups (both boys and girls). You had to be at least a (male) teenager to use an Amiga or any other advanced computer system properly. And definitely not only for games. Besides which 8-year old would patiently wait for a disk to load without pulling it out and reinserting it?

It is just that at the time the Amiga was beginning to show its full potential for game development, the Japanese companies caught on and expanded the console market to other age groups.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheCyberDruid

I really find the second quote much more appropiate for the simple reason that 'better' is always very much a subjective thing. Look at the tags btw

you are right. but there isnt such a word as "totally objective" or "totally subjective". It is a mixture of both. "more successful" would be a better term. the fact is that outsourcing games to Japan multimedia giants was no match for small studios. Or the opposite, Japan sending games abroad with the appropriate marketing and modifying those for Western standards. At that time same things occurred with cartoons too. Of course it is easy to say things now. Damals verstanden wir nur Bahnhof...

Retro-Nerd · 04 October 2009, 20:36

Quote:

The problem was rather with the target groups.

The NES was hugely successful mainly at the young age groups (both boys and girls). You had to be at least a (male) teenager to use an Amiga or any other advanced computer system properly. And definitely not only for games. Besides which 8-year old would patiently wait for a disk to load without pulling it out and reinserting it?

I've seen 6 year old kids in the 80s/90s without any problems to load a C64 or Amiga game. The 8-bit consoles were indeed very unimportant in Europe back then. It's known that the Sega Master System had a little success, not only in the young age groups.

I doubt that the NES had a huge success in Europe, at least i can't remember a single person who owned one at that time.

Hungry Horace · 04 October 2009, 22:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by petran

Besides which 8-year old would patiently wait for a disk to load without pulling it out and reinserting it?

i was 8 when my family had our first A500, and i had no problems with it. I was even younger waiting patiently for ZX Spectrum games to load from tape.

Graham Humphrey · 04 October 2009, 22:46

I was always perfectly capable of loading and being patient with Amiga games when I as five years old. When I was younger still I too managed to cope with a Spectrum. It ain't rocket science.

laffer · 05 October 2009, 00:25

Yeah, same here - I never had any problems loading C64 games when I was 8... in fact I really enjoyed many of the loader tunes

petran · 05 October 2009, 20:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Retro-Nerd

I've seen 6 year old kids in the 80s/90s without any problems to load a C64 or Amiga game. The 8-bit consoles were indeed very unimportant in Europe back then. It's known that the Sega Master System had a little success, not only in the young age groups.

I doubt that the NES had a huge success in Europe, at least i can't remember a single person who owned one at that time.

Ok. I take back what I said about the difficulty of use. It is just that the NES was promoted as a game console and not a computer. so this makes it an easier target for developers and promoters.

During that time I was living in Germany. The NES promotion began in the end of the 80s and lasted till it was overshadowed by the arrival of the Super Famicom in the start of the 90s. Gameboy lasted longer. Graphics and sound differences were simply too vast to be ignored. Just as the NES was promoted, it was as easily replaced. Shops had all kind of consoles and games: NES, Amiga, Atari 2600,ST,Commodore 64 etc.
Though the NES could be found even in larger shops and not those specialized in electronics and software. It was promoted just like a vacuum cleaner or coffee machine or a toy for the kids. No need to type commands.

Console game prices were very expensive. Eg Castlevania 3 for the NES cost 120 DM in 1992!

But I remember the huge promotion of the NES. Since I was young at that time, a great deal of youngsters had an NES. There were many advertisements. You sure remember the Zelda 2 advertisement? An actor like Klaus Kinski was playing Link.

And not only that. There were also cartoons, eg the Super Mario cartoon and the Captain N the Gamemaster. This shows how popular the NES was, overshadowing the vast majority of other and often better and cheaper options available

s2325 · 06 October 2009, 16:39

Klaus Kinsky as Link?

papa_november · 01 November 2009, 19:39

Lionheart is a pretty game and the controls are even decent, but the balance completely falls apart less than halfway through. Same deal for Apidya, same deal for a lot of European games- even the best ones often suffer from hideous balance problems and excessive difficulty.

I remember an article somewhere about Rare where they were going through Nintendo's QA process. Nintendo was pleased with the game they were testing but had just one niggling complaint - it was almost unbeatable to something like 99% of players without cheating.

Legend has it that the Rare rep was dumbfounded at the idea of a game that was actually beatable. That is the mentality that plagued the design of most the Amiga's games and it shows.

Mogilny · 01 November 2009, 19:45

Robocod > Mario

Hungry Horace · 02 November 2009, 00:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mogilny

Robocod > Mario

agreed.

just played Robocod for a decent stint for the first time in many many years, and have to say i think it still holds up as a really enjoyable game.

TCD · 02 November 2009, 00:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hungry Horace

just played Robocod for the first time in many many years, and have to say i think it still holds up as a really enjoyable game.

Robocod is a great Amiga platformer

Not too sure about the controls in Lionheart. They feel a tad sluggish here.

Retro-Nerd · 02 November 2009, 01:22

Lionheart has long animation phases, that's why you probably think they are sluggish. Never had problems with it, works better with a stick imho.

Cammy · 02 November 2009, 07:02

Ooh, I think Lionheart plays perfectly with a 2+button control pad.

switchblade · 02 November 2009, 19:32

For some odd reason, there's a voice in the back of my head that's telling me that I shouldn't have made this thread in the first place.

....

Am I going insane?

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03 October 2009, 22:05	#61
laffer Zone Friend Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Norway Age: 43 Posts: 1,335	Depends on when you bought the Amiga, I guess. If you got an Amiga in '85 or '87, then it's obviously different.

03 October 2009, 22:14	#62
Retro-Nerd Missile Command Champion Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Germany Age: 52 Posts: 12,438	Europe was focused on computer games. The SMS had a little success, the NES was pretty obsolete here. The 8-bit computers dominated the market at that time. Starting with the Mega Drive release the market moved slowly in the console direction.

03 October 2009, 22:40	#64
hitm4n Registered User Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Lincoln, UK Posts: 604	Ruff N Tumble is one of the best platformers i've ever enjoyed... Simply fantastic gameplay.

03 October 2009, 22:59	#65
Paul_s Registered User Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Amigaville Age: 46 Posts: 3,334	My favourite genre on the Amiga are side way scrollers/platformers. Soccerkid Premiere Fire N Ice Superfrog Arabian Nights Rolling Thunder II Robocop & many many others I forget the names of (those above my favourites ) Those who dare slag off Superfrog should be forced to eat black puddings & drink Lucozade forever. /Thread closed.

04 October 2009, 22:46	#70
Graham Humphrey Moderator Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Norwich, Norfolk, UK Age: 37 Posts: 11,167	I was always perfectly capable of loading and being patient with Amiga games when I as five years old. When I was younger still I too managed to cope with a Spectrum. It ain't rocket science.

05 October 2009, 00:25	#71
laffer Zone Friend Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Norway Age: 43 Posts: 1,335	Yeah, same here - I never had any problems loading C64 games when I was 8... in fact I really enjoyed many of the loader tunes

06 October 2009, 16:39	#73
s2325 Zone Friend Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Gargore Age: 43 Posts: 17,789	Klaus Kinsky as Link?

01 November 2009, 19:39	#74
papa_november Registered User Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: California Posts: 184	Lionheart is a pretty game and the controls are even decent, but the balance completely falls apart less than halfway through. Same deal for Apidya, same deal for a lot of European games- even the best ones often suffer from hideous balance problems and excessive difficulty. I remember an article somewhere about Rare where they were going through Nintendo's QA process. Nintendo was pleased with the game they were testing but had just one niggling complaint - it was almost unbeatable to something like 99% of players without cheating. Legend has it that the Rare rep was dumbfounded at the idea of a game that was actually beatable. That is the mentality that plagued the design of most the Amiga's games and it shows.

01 November 2009, 19:45	#75
Mogilny Registered User Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Amiga 4-ever! Posts: 121	Robocod > Mario

02 November 2009, 01:22	#78
Retro-Nerd Missile Command Champion Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Germany Age: 52 Posts: 12,438	Lionheart has long animation phases, that's why you probably think they are sluggish. Never had problems with it, works better with a stick imho.

02 November 2009, 07:02	#79
Cammy Registered User Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Tasmania, Australia Age: 39 Posts: 1,189	Ooh, I think Lionheart plays perfectly with a 2+button control pad.

02 November 2009, 19:32	#80
switchblade Registered User Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: United States Age: 37 Posts: 99	For some odd reason, there's a voice in the back of my head that's telling me that I shouldn't have made this thread in the first place. .... Am I going insane?

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