EAB/Lemon Super League 2011: Round 10 - Turrican II

[Graham Humphrey]

EAB/Lemon Super League 2011: Round 10 - Turrican II


Starts: 00:01 August 21 Finishes: 23:59 September 10

Rules

Post a picture of your score here with the score written underneath. Enter as often as you like. Only scores achieved during the round's time frame count.

No cheating of any kind (including score leeching) - this includes save states. No continues/passwords allowed. If you suspect anyone of cheating please let us know in private - anyone found guilty will be banned for the entire season.

The winner of this round gets to choose the letter for round 12 - the third special round where you can only vote for games that begin with the specified letter (although B, G and W are taken). So a bit of extra incentive.

Remember, anyone can join in at any time. Have fun and feel free to ask any questions you may have.

Downloads

- Disk 1, Disk 2
- WHDLoad-installed

Extras

- Full rules and FAQ (incorporating the Hall of Fame)
- Results and standings
- Lemon thread

Final Scores - EAB, Lemon

1. john4p - 3,464,600
2. Harry - 3,190,200
3. lifeschool - 2,989,700
4. capehorn - 2,952,300
5. Shawn Dimery - 2,627,700
6. Alpha One - 2,454,100
7. TurricanX - 2,289,800
8. frikilokooo - 2,232,300
9. richjharrison - 2,180,300
10. Ze Emulatron - 326,400
11. ChrisN82 - 289,900
12. bbsteal - 272,500
13. Graham Humphrey - 248,500
14. mailman - 238,800
15. mihcael - 98,400
16. Chuckles - 56,100
17. LinesMachine - 39,500
18. robotron - 36,900

[Harry]

I thought there had been an agreement that mode should be most lives (for those completing the game), then score, as discussed here. Score only is much more boring.

[mihcael]

There was a discussion but i dont recall any agreement. This score method would only differentiate between people who complete it right? (i didnt read the thread/in a a rush back later)

[Harry]

Originally Posted by mihcael

There was a discussion but i dont recall any agreement. This score method would only differentiate between people who complete it right? (i didnt read the thread/in a a rush back later)

As Turrican 2 is a popular and easy game, I expect a lot of people completing it. And either we banish shooting the endless possible scoregivers for this game despite its only milking or change the competition mode to first lives, then score. Please. (I should have mentioned this before in the voting thread, but thought all was agreed.)

[john4p]

Thanks for the support, Harry. Completely agree - playing this for score won't be much fun (for the people who can easily complete it).

Originally Posted by mihcael

There was a discussion but i dont recall any agreement. This score method would only differentiate between people who complete it right? (i didnt read the thread/in a a rush back later)

It would affect anyone. If you can't complete it, you'd have 0 lives - the score is the tie-breaker between people with same amount of lives.
Let's repeat this suggestion:

To make Turrican II more enjoyable and less of a milk-fest we could use these special rules:

primary score: number of lives at the end of the game
secondary score (tie-breaker for people with same lives-counts): highscore

Special case: the players who can't finish the game would just have "0 lives" as primary score and then their highscore would decide who's best among them.

Example:

1. Graham 50 lives, 1 million points
2. Harry 49 lives, 3 million points
3. Mailman 0 lives, 150k points
4. John 0 lives, 100k points


Losing as few lives as possible (while collecting all the one-ups) is way more challenging and fun then shooting at respawning enemies for 40*800 seconds.

[mihcael]

that sounds ok, anyone disagree?

[lifeschool]

All I can do is to ask all those who can complete this game easily to avoid milking and play fair - you'll only be cheating yourself.

YES, playing for lives as first priority seems like a good idea. But what happens when you complete the game with a big score but with zero lives remaining? Does this rank below only getting to world 4 (with less score) but with six lives remaining? (See my score posted on Lemon) How about multiplying the score by the lives remaining, is this fairer??

[mihcael]

Originally Posted by lifeschool

YES, playing for lives as first priority seems like a good idea. But what happens when you complete the game with a big score but with zero lives remaining? Does this rank below only getting to world 4 (with less score) but with six lives remaining? (See my score posted on Lemon) How about multiplying the score by the lives remaining, is this fairer??

Normally scores where a game is in progress (your score) are not accepted unless a bug has caused them, so this shouldn't be an issue.

Multiplying the score by lives left is a better solution, makes it easier for mods to enter scores

edit - but using Johns example things would be reversed....

1. Harry 49 lives, 3 million points = 147 Million
2. Graham 50 lives, 1 million points = 50 million

edit2 - Graham will know the answer... Graham?

[Harry]

Originally Posted by mihcael

Multiplying the score by lives left is a better solution, makes it easier for mods to enter scores

Multiplying makes the things not much better. At the milking place, someone can get some 100.000 points per life, so if you do it for 20 of your 40 lives this would still seriously distort the competition.

[john4p]

Also multiplying the score with 0 lives (if someone can't complete the game) would net a total score of 0.

Another solution is: each life at the end is worth an additional 10,000,000 points.

Then the above example would look like this:

1. Graham 50 lives, 1 million points => 501,000,000 total score
2. Harry 49 lives, 3 million points => 493,000,000
3. Mailman 0 lives, 150k points => 150,000
4. John 0 lives, 100k points => 100,000

[lifeschool]

Originally Posted by john4p

Also multiplying the score with 0 lives (if someone can't complete the game) would net a total score of 0

Well, if I multiply 1 million by zero I get 1 million. If I multiply 1 million by 1 - I still get 1 million.

[john4p]

Originally Posted by lifeschool

Well, if I multiply 1 million by zero I get 1 million. If I multiply 1 million by 1 - I still get 1 million.

Hmm... my Windows calculator stubbornly claims that 1,000,000 * 0 = 0

[Harry]

Here is a screenshot of a completed game without repeatedly shooting the repeatedly generated items.

After applying all bonuses, lives are still visible (although this screen stays only for 3 seconds when all bonuses are counted, so better be fast with the screenshot).

Score: 3.190.200

[Graham Humphrey]

Wow, you turn your back for a few hours and...

My head hurts now. Hmmm - every game ever we've played purely on the basis of score so I don't see why an exception should be made for this? We played it years ago in the old EAB league and nobody objected to it then. Now granted I don't know loads about this game but I'm guessing most of us mere mortals won't find it that easy so I don't see why we need to complicate things for this.

[john4p]

Well, let's just agree to not milk in this game. If there is a wasps' nest or those falling balls just destroy the source right away.

Then score should be fine.

[Graham Humphrey]

So are any of the scores here an example of abusing the problem outlined above?

I still don't know the answer and I'm hardly here at the minute so you better all hurry up and find a solution you can agree on

[john4p]

Yes, those top 2 scores show the problem. Having scored them must've been an extremely tedious task. You'd have to milk multiple spots for a very long time.

If you go everywhere, collect every powerup and life and destroy any enemy (right away) you'll end up with a score like Harry above (or blade and Magneto Boots in your linked thread) - some score of 3,xxx,x00 points.

What farmarfred and Vermillion did there was just farming.

Trying to stay alive (while collecting as many extra lives as possible) would be an actual challenge.

Or we just abstain from milking for this game - then score is fine, too.

[Graham Humphrey]

I think where possible we should try and avoid complicating things too much with extra things like lives etc. Although I do see the merit of it I still think score is the way to go. Harry said to me in PM that someone could do it in a subtle way so you couldn't really tell that they'd been leeching. This is true of course but these are always risks you take with this sort of thing. I remember we came to a similar agreement when we played Battle Squadron a few years ago and I think we did okay out of it so I trust everyone enough to go through with this.

Yes, we'll try it like this - a gentlemen's agreement not to milk/leech/whatever. If it doesn't work then I will make up for it by changing it if we play it again (i.e. the Knockout, or a future Open Round).

[Lonewolf10]

It doesn't matter which way you do it, newbies like me will be struggling to get past level 1 - even with finding the extra 2 lives
Is the only way to beat the boss by not losing a life? I know where to shoot him, but struggle with running out of time and dodging him and/or the falling rocks. This is not an easy game, only the pro's here will complete it.


Regards,
Lonewolf10

[Harry]

In the first world, level 1, 5 lives come instantly to my mind. Maybe you will do better if you find them? (It is one of my top 20 games.)
And in that level, a loss of one life due timeout is count in.
And for the boss: Just shoot him when he stands still and does nothing and concentrate on avoiding the rocks when he jumps - you will see on the ceiling where the next ones appear.