Spoilers

eLowar · 29 June 2007, 02:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by CodyJarrett

Yes, I agree. We have discussed the issue [spoiler screenshots] before and come to the conclusion that there would be too much work involved in removing them all now, especially as many sets of screens form neat grids in multiples of four.

However, I'm going to suggest that RCK implements a new feature where screens can be marked as spoilers and replaced with a blank screen by default. They could then be turned on with an option if so desired.

Just saw this in an old thread. Whatever became of this? Has the idea been dismissed or just forgotten? I thought it was a rather good idea.

A500-Danny · 12 July 2007, 22:02

I think, it would be too much work to mark the screenshots individually as spoiler ones, but I have an idea:

I think most HOL entries with only a few screenshots (8 or less) show the beginning of a game only
(no time for more screenshots -> no time to play the game long enough to reach later stages).

The problem with spoiler screenshots appear in HOL entries with many screenshots, but these screenshots are chronological (mostly I think), showing how a player would progress in the game.

---

So why not make an automatic spoiler protection based on the number of screenshots?

For example:
The first 8 (2x4) thumbnails are always shown.
If there are more than 8 screenshots, the second half of the thumbnails after the first 8 are overlaid with a "SPOILER WARNING" graphics (numerical example: 24 screenshots -> 24-8=16 -> the last 16/2=8 thumbnails).

This way you can see, that there are more screenshots, but they may be spoilers for you.

By mouse-over, the overlaid warning disappear and you can see the normal thumbnail, clicking on it works like on the "normal" thumbnails.

---

This could be the standard way (show spoiler warnings over thumbnails).

In the options there could be two other possibilities:
- no spoiler warnings over thumbnails (current situation without spoiler protection)
- never show possible spoiler screenshots
(last option wouldn't even show that there are more screenshots for the game than shown - maybe only a short note at the end of the page would tell you: "more screenshots available (possible spoilers), to see them change settings on the options page").

What do you think?

Muzkat · 13 July 2007, 03:48

I think that is a good idea. I too do not like spoiler shots, unless I am deliberately looking for them.

eLowar · 13 July 2007, 06:03

Well there is a middle ground still. Images could just be flagged individually, but the initial flags could be generated automatically by some heuristic as suggested by A500-Danny. So for existing files the flags would be set like that and possibly also for new files above the threshold if whoever adds them doesn't say otherwise.

Whatever the method, I don't like having to be scared of scrolling down or clicking the Screenshot button in the first place.

Marcuz · 13 July 2007, 10:37

mmm i don't agree much over the issue. think of it like this:

who is browsing HOL is usually hunting for a game to play or for info on a game he wants to play. He clicks on the screenshots tab, and a page with a lot of thumbnails appears on screen. now, would he really want to check them all and therefore ruin his surprise at the game?

if he even would do so, not having already played the game, would he understand what happens in a single screenshot after a cursory view?

it's a lot like the pictures on the old magazines (or the new ones on that account) of course the editor will not post the endgame sequence pictures, but whatever it is printed is just intended for supporting the decision (to play or not to play) of the player: per se they don't tell much more.

either way i'm ok with what will be.

A500-Danny · 13 July 2007, 23:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by marco pedrana

now, would he really want to check them [the screenshots] all and therefore ruin his surprise at the game?

Nobody is perfect: I accidentally saw two or three spoilers while browsing HOL (especially thumbnails of ending screens).
Nobody wants to ruin his surprise on purpose, of course.

Quote:

Originally Posted by marco pedrana

if he even would do so, not having already played the game, would he understand
what happens in a single screenshot after a cursory view?

No, he wouldn't understand what happens most of the time, but he would see how it looks like.
The point is that some people don't want to see that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by marco pedrana

it's a lot like the pictures on the old magazines (or the new ones on that account) of course the editor
will not post the endgame sequence pictures, but whatever it is printed is just intended for supporting
the decision (to play or not to play) of the player: per se they don't tell much more.

Yes, I agree. That should be the case for screenshots in HOL, too.
However, many screenshots in HOL entries tell too much.
Much more than any game magazine would ever print (walkthroughs excluded).

The problem is that there are different kinds of people (HOL users):

Some don't care about whether there are spoiler screenshots or not.
Some think: the more screenshots the better.
Some don't want to see spoiler screenshots.

The first two groups are happy now. The third isn't.
I think it's a matter of choice, not who's right.
I only want to have the choice to browse the screenshots with warnings on.

I couldn't say better than eLowar on this:

Quote:

Originally Posted by eLowar

Whatever the method, I don't like having to be scared of scrolling down or clicking the Screenshot button in the first place.

That sums it up for me.

Well, it's okay for me if nothing is done about this, but I think HOL would be improved if some kind of spoiler protection is added.
At least a compromise like the automatic protection. Better than nothing in my view.

Konrad · 14 July 2007, 01:59

It's the same with movie trailers/previews. If you don't want to be spoiled you don't watch these.
Same thing for the screenshots in HOL. If you don't want to be spoiled, don't look at the screenshots and be happy with the doublebarrel screenshot.

It's way to much work for a little feature that really isn't important and/or required IMO.

eLowar · 14 July 2007, 02:03

Trailers/previews are supposedly designed not to contain spoilers.

Konrad · 14 July 2007, 02:11

You don't watch alot of trailers/previews, do you

? I've seen enough of those to know, that there are lots of them, which contain spoilers.

eLowar · 14 July 2007, 02:19

The point is, they shouldn't.

It's bad enough I can't look at any Wikipedia articles about books or movies I haven't read or seen.

And I don't believe that feature would be that much effort to implement. And apparently it matters to a few people at least. I'm not saying it's extremely important to me, but it would be nice if I could look at games I haven't played or finished in HOL without worrying about seeing something I don't want to see.

Maybe some global mod can add a poll to this thread.

Marcuz · 14 July 2007, 02:45

mah! i'm with konrad about the trailers, i'm not convinced about the reasons because they wouldn't to have spoilers: they are in the numbers of the things that keeps people wanting to see the movies;
spoiler = part of the story and without story there's no movie (or whatever narrative). only the people who are interested in the crew of a movie go to see it without know anything about it.
and if you heard about a little of a movie and you don't want to see the trailers, well you just don't and go to the cinema.
the same with the screenshots.
i still don't see why one should peek at all the screenshots in HOL before to decide if they want to play the game. you don't want to see them, then don't and play!

after all the motivations of HOL are about the cataloguing of the amiga games, not about pimping and pushing them.

i think internet is making people real lazy

but as i said, if you badly want them and RCK would like to code the amount of lines needed, everybody is happy.

let's go for the poll, my vote is against! let's play and don't simply watch i say

CodyJarrett · 14 July 2007, 07:55

We're definitely going to add the spoiler protection - it's just a case of when! It's still on RCK's To Do list.

I think that the games are too variable to automatically add the spoiler image to entries as Danny suggests. Some games will have no real ending, even if they have been completed, and others will have between 1 and 8 screens for it.

I should be able to find a fair amount of the endings if I search the log for stuff I've added. Until then, it's over to RCK!

andreas · 17 July 2007, 20:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by A500-Danny

The problem is that there are different kinds of people (HOL users):[*] Some don't care about whether there are spoiler screenshots or not.

Only users?

Not really. I could even name one of my team mates who does not care a single thing about that.

If he feels like it, he might unmask.

Codetapper · 17 July 2007, 23:17

Personally I am happy to see the spoilers mixed in. If I really want to play Op Wolf, but I have looked at the HOL screenshot tab and seen the endings, I am not going to think it's now a waste of time playing it!

The enjoyment is from playing the game, not just seeing a few static screens from the ending. Would people not play Grand Theft Auto because they have seen the ending?

Graham Humphrey · 18 July 2007, 00:04

I agree with Codetapper - I don't play games just to see what the endings are like, and most are rubbish anyway. Surely the whole point of playing games is to enjoy yourself? And most storylines in games are hardly gripping anyway.

eLowar · 18 July 2007, 05:01

So? Knowing details or the ending also doesn't necessarily make a book not worth reading or a movie not worth watching (except certain kinds that rely solely on surprise, maybe), but it still takes some of the fun out of it. It's called "spoiler", not "something that makes the respective entity entirely pointless to ever look at again".

CodyJarrett · 18 July 2007, 09:43

We discussed this all before and the result was that some don't mind seeing spoilers and some do. It's as would be expected.

The plan to have an option to hide spoilers is therefore a reasonable solution. It would be on by default and could be turned off in the options.

eLowar · 18 July 2007, 09:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by CodyJarrett

We discussed this all before and the result was that some don't mind seeing spoilers and some do. It's as would be expected.

The plan to have an option to hide spoilers is therefore a reasonable solution. It would be on by default and could be turned off in the options.

Hooray for options.

Codetapper · 18 July 2007, 12:40

But I hope if this is going to be done, it will be after more useful things like master game records (eg. Superfrog as a single game match, and which when clicked shows all the versions) which really will be useful!

musashi5150 · 18 July 2007, 12:54

Bottom line is whatever you do somebody will always be unhappy with it

12 July 2007, 22:02	#2
A500-Danny lone-wolf-Amiga-500-fan Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Germany Posts: 19	A solution for spoiler screenshots? I think, it would be too much work to mark the screenshots individually as spoiler ones, but I have an idea: I think most HOL entries with only a few screenshots (8 or less) show the beginning of a game only (no time for more screenshots -> no time to play the game long enough to reach later stages). The problem with spoiler screenshots appear in HOL entries with many screenshots, but these screenshots are chronological (mostly I think), showing how a player would progress in the game. --- So why not make an automatic spoiler protection based on the number of screenshots? For example: The first 8 (2x4) thumbnails are always shown. If there are more than 8 screenshots, the second half of the thumbnails after the first 8 are overlaid with a "SPOILER WARNING" graphics (numerical example: 24 screenshots -> 24-8=16 -> the last 16/2=8 thumbnails). This way you can see, that there are more screenshots, but they may be spoilers for you. By mouse-over, the overlaid warning disappear and you can see the normal thumbnail, clicking on it works like on the "normal" thumbnails. --- This could be the standard way (show spoiler warnings over thumbnails). In the options there could be two other possibilities: - no spoiler warnings over thumbnails (current situation without spoiler protection) - never show possible spoiler screenshots (last option wouldn't even show that there are more screenshots for the game than shown - maybe only a short note at the end of the page would tell you: "more screenshots available (possible spoilers), to see them change settings on the options page"). What do you think? Last edited by A500-Danny; 12 July 2007 at 22:07.

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13 July 2007, 03:48	#3
Muzkat Into the Wonderful Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Earthrealm Age: 42 Posts: 1,426	I think that is a good idea. I too do not like spoiler shots, unless I am deliberately looking for them.

13 July 2007, 06:03	#4
eLowar Citizen of Elthesh Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: UK Posts: 949	Well there is a middle ground still. Images could just be flagged individually, but the initial flags could be generated automatically by some heuristic as suggested by A500-Danny. So for existing files the flags would be set like that and possibly also for new files above the threshold if whoever adds them doesn't say otherwise. Whatever the method, I don't like having to be scared of scrolling down or clicking the Screenshot button in the first place.

13 July 2007, 10:37	#5
Marcuz Registered User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: . Age: 48 Posts: 5,562	mmm i don't agree much over the issue. think of it like this: who is browsing HOL is usually hunting for a game to play or for info on a game he wants to play. He clicks on the screenshots tab, and a page with a lot of thumbnails appears on screen. now, would he really want to check them all and therefore ruin his surprise at the game? if he even would do so, not having already played the game, would he understand what happens in a single screenshot after a cursory view? it's a lot like the pictures on the old magazines (or the new ones on that account) of course the editor will not post the endgame sequence pictures, but whatever it is printed is just intended for supporting the decision (to play or not to play) of the player: per se they don't tell much more. either way i'm ok with what will be.

14 July 2007, 01:59	#7
Konrad Registered User Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Germany Age: 43 Posts: 742	It's the same with movie trailers/previews. If you don't want to be spoiled you don't watch these. Same thing for the screenshots in HOL. If you don't want to be spoiled, don't look at the screenshots and be happy with the doublebarrel screenshot. It's way to much work for a little feature that really isn't important and/or required IMO.

14 July 2007, 02:03	#8
eLowar Citizen of Elthesh Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: UK Posts: 949	Trailers/previews are supposedly designed not to contain spoilers.

14 July 2007, 02:11	#9
Konrad Registered User Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Germany Age: 43 Posts: 742	You don't watch alot of trailers/previews, do you ? I've seen enough of those to know, that there are lots of them, which contain spoilers.

14 July 2007, 02:19	#10
eLowar Citizen of Elthesh Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: UK Posts: 949	The point is, they shouldn't. It's bad enough I can't look at any Wikipedia articles about books or movies I haven't read or seen. And I don't believe that feature would be that much effort to implement. And apparently it matters to a few people at least. I'm not saying it's extremely important to me, but it would be nice if I could look at games I haven't played or finished in HOL without worrying about seeing something I don't want to see. Maybe some global mod can add a poll to this thread.

14 July 2007, 02:45	#11
Marcuz Registered User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: . Age: 48 Posts: 5,562	mah! i'm with konrad about the trailers, i'm not convinced about the reasons because they wouldn't to have spoilers: they are in the numbers of the things that keeps people wanting to see the movies; spoiler = part of the story and without story there's no movie (or whatever narrative). only the people who are interested in the crew of a movie go to see it without know anything about it. and if you heard about a little of a movie and you don't want to see the trailers, well you just don't and go to the cinema. the same with the screenshots. i still don't see why one should peek at all the screenshots in HOL before to decide if they want to play the game. you don't want to see them, then don't and play! after all the motivations of HOL are about the cataloguing of the amiga games, not about pimping and pushing them. i think internet is making people real lazy but as i said, if you badly want them and RCK would like to code the amount of lines needed, everybody is happy. let's go for the poll, my vote is against! let's play and don't simply watch i say

14 July 2007, 07:55	#12
CodyJarrett Global Moderator Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: UK Age: 46 Posts: 6,160	We're definitely going to add the spoiler protection - it's just a case of when! It's still on RCK's To Do list. I think that the games are too variable to automatically add the spoiler image to entries as Danny suggests. Some games will have no real ending, even if they have been completed, and others will have between 1 and 8 screens for it. I should be able to find a fair amount of the endings if I search the log for stuff I've added. Until then, it's over to RCK!

17 July 2007, 23:17	#14
Codetapper 2 contact me: email only! Join Date: May 2001 Location: Auckland / New Zealand Posts: 3,182	Personally I am happy to see the spoilers mixed in. If I really want to play Op Wolf, but I have looked at the HOL screenshot tab and seen the endings, I am not going to think it's now a waste of time playing it! The enjoyment is from playing the game, not just seeing a few static screens from the ending. Would people not play Grand Theft Auto because they have seen the ending?

18 July 2007, 00:04	#15
Graham Humphrey Moderator Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Norwich, Norfolk, UK Age: 37 Posts: 11,167	I agree with Codetapper - I don't play games just to see what the endings are like, and most are rubbish anyway. Surely the whole point of playing games is to enjoy yourself? And most storylines in games are hardly gripping anyway.

18 July 2007, 05:01	#16
eLowar Citizen of Elthesh Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: UK Posts: 949	So? Knowing details or the ending also doesn't necessarily make a book not worth reading or a movie not worth watching (except certain kinds that rely solely on surprise, maybe), but it still takes some of the fun out of it. It's called "spoiler", not "something that makes the respective entity entirely pointless to ever look at again".

18 July 2007, 09:43	#17
CodyJarrett Global Moderator Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: UK Age: 46 Posts: 6,160	We discussed this all before and the result was that some don't mind seeing spoilers and some do. It's as would be expected. The plan to have an option to hide spoilers is therefore a reasonable solution. It would be on by default and could be turned off in the options.

18 July 2007, 12:40	#19
Codetapper 2 contact me: email only! Join Date: May 2001 Location: Auckland / New Zealand Posts: 3,182	But I hope if this is going to be done, it will be after more useful things like master game records (eg. Superfrog as a single game match, and which when clicked shows all the versions) which really will be useful!

18 July 2007, 12:54	#20
musashi5150 move.w #$4489,$dff07e Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Norfolk, UK Age: 42 Posts: 2,351	Bottom line is whatever you do somebody will always be unhappy with it

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