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Old 30 October 2018, 12:04   #141
Marle
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Originally Posted by sean_skroht View Post
And this is precisely the type of crap I feared would happen as a result of these lawsuits between 3 completely inept entities that do nothing for the forward progression of the Amiga platform and it's community. So once again we are deprived of future development because of this. This kind of crap makes me so mad.
Absolutely this and everything you said. I could write more but why bother when you said it all.

Commodore looks like a model of professionalism and a paragon of great business management when compared to how these three entities. They're all as bad as each other.
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Old 30 October 2018, 12:15   #142
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It is a real shame that this has gone the way so many feared but we have the release now and that cannot be put back in the bottle. Further development was only ever really a possibility and never a given so we are no worse off.

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Old 30 October 2018, 12:35   #143
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Originally Posted by grond View Post
The 3.1.4 devs wanted to make 3.1.4 legal and as much official as possible. They thought that the "Settlement Agreement" was the best legal basis and that it meant that 3.1.4 could only be released through Hyperion. Thus, they gave their work to Hyperion for free so that it would get published at all (unfortunately letting a torrent show up somewhere never was an option to the 3.1.4 devs
...
...
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They would probably give their work to any party they could consider as legally owner of the rights to AmigaOS. All they really wanted is to have their work published. So this hasn't been taking sides even though it may appear this way.
Mostly accurate.

Pirating 3.1.4 is not the solution to anything. On the contrary, it only degrades the effort we all put into it, and acts as demotivation. And it also certainly kills the chance to keep developing it.

You should read and/or re-read Olaf and Thomas public joint statement/open letter regarding this matter.

The purchase will be on-line again.
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Old 30 October 2018, 13:00   #144
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Originally Posted by gulliver View Post
...
...

Mostly accurate.

Pirating 3.1.4 is not the solution to anything. On the contrary, it only degrades the effort we all put into it, and acts as demotivation. And it also certainly kills the chance to keep developing it.

You should read and/or re-read Olaf and Thomas public joint statement/open letter regarding this matter.

The purchase will be on-line again.
Do you have a link to the statement?
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Old 30 October 2018, 13:01   #145
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...
Pirating 3.1.4 is not the solution to anything.

Agreed. I would much rather see the money go to the developers.
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Old 30 October 2018, 14:11   #146
Phantasm
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Unfortunately that didn't seem to be an option however you look at it
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Agreed. I would much rather see the money go to the developers.
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Old 30 October 2018, 15:01   #147
Minuous
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@MrFlibble:

If Cloanto actually wanted to open source anything, and actually had the rights that they claim to have, they would have released the source code years ago, of course.
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Old 30 October 2018, 15:07   #148
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Shipping of AmigaOS 3.1.4 to dealers started, digital sales closed. Place your order at your Amiga dealer now!

Posted to Hyperion's FB Page a while ago.
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Old 30 October 2018, 15:10   #149
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Why would they stop selling it as download because they shipped it to dealers? Doesn't make any real sense imo.
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Old 30 October 2018, 15:31   #150
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Thinking of pirates, they might be breaking a few rules here and there, but wouldn't stoop to these levels of greed and backstabbing.

Personal opinion; Olaf and Thomas thought they were doing "the right thing" by going the lawful route, lured in by professional business attitudes and copyright claims by signing contract with NDA, which turned out to be a bunch of lies. Business is war, remember? If corporations had ethics they would pay taxes like the rest of us.

Still, if AmigaOS 3.1.4 ever turns open source or reach a point where it lovingly gets pirated in binary form by its community (gentlemen's agreement), I would be happy to support the developers using crowdfunding. Until then I'm assuming they are getting paid by Hyperion, or at least hoping they are.
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Old 30 October 2018, 15:34   #151
gulliver
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Originally Posted by alpine9000 View Post
Do you have a link to the statement?
https://www.amigafuture.de/viewtopic.php?t=44329
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Old 30 October 2018, 15:35   #152
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Why would they stop selling it as download because they shipped it to dealers? Doesn't make any real sense imo.
It will still be available online. They are fixing this.
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Old 30 October 2018, 15:54   #153
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Until then I'm assuming they are getting paid by Hyperion, or at least hoping they are.
http://eab.abime.net/showpost.php?p=...0&postcount=79
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Old 30 October 2018, 16:01   #154
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Personal opinion; Olaf and Thomas thought they were doing "the right thing" by going the lawful route, lured in by professional business attitudes and copyright claims by signing contract with NDA, which turned out to be a bunch of lies.
It is not like they were not warned, but anyone who warned them were branded as trolls by Thomas himself. The irony of him now being involved in professional piracy is rather entertaining, to say the least.
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Old 30 October 2018, 16:01   #155
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Thanks, it's worse than I thought. Labor of love with humble claims indeed, makes this lawsuit bullshit even more insulting.
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Old 30 October 2018, 16:14   #156
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The developers are naive. It's great that they want to give their work away for free - I think this is very generous. But they insist on handing their work to Hyperion and then hope that Hyperion will give them the money for developing some more. Are they serious? Do they still believe in Santa? Why would Hyperion part with any of that money? Even more so if they learn they can get stuff for free?

And an open letter that basically says "yes, the copyrights are what ensures your income from us but please reconsider because we might stop buying from you"? That must have frightened the hell out of both Cloanto and Hyperion!

Last edited by grond; 30 October 2018 at 17:53.
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Old 30 October 2018, 16:20   #157
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It is not like they were not warned, but anyone who warned them were branded as trolls by Thomas himself. The irony of him now being involved in professional piracy is rather entertaining, to say the least.
+1

I warned him (over at A1K.org) too, but his attitude was all warnings are from trolls. The second irony here, is all of his "Warnings" about my crappy and useless software projects.

Amiga trivia: Who first developed the exec.library 060 support code and who trolled against it? (Now, it's a "New" feature of OS 3.1.4)

I guess real Trolls never look themselves in the mirror!
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Old 30 October 2018, 19:14   #158
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So is the expectation that digital sales will resume sometime in the (hopefully near) future?

Edit - whoops, missed gulliver's response above

Last edited by pgovotsos; 30 October 2018 at 19:50.
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Old 30 October 2018, 19:42   #159
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Presumably playing whack-a-mole with payment providers and C&D orders...
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Old 30 October 2018, 20:49   #160
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Originally Posted by gulliver View Post
It will still be available online. They are fixing this.
Yea, for sure they will fix this: https://docs.google.com/file/d/1PCGwJYRtX5wi6JwFK7DSRYcjRQLaUS4k/edit

Quote:
WHEREFORE, Amiga prays that this Court enter judgment against Hyperion as follows:
(...)
Ordering the recall from the marketplace and destruction or other reasonable disposition
of all unauthorized products, including but not limited to all 3.1.4 Products, releases of
Amiga operating system 3.1, and products that include Kickstart 1.2, 1.3, and 3.1;
(...)
I feel really sorry for the devs and testers who brought us the 3.1.4 - they did a great work, didn't get a penny for their effort, and now they see this. Users will probably just pirate the 3.1.4, just as they are pirating countless of abandonware games and software.

As for the Hyperion... well they are probably getting what they deserve, I don't feel sorry for them at all. The way they treat customers is, IMHO, terrible:
- software license not shown to some customers before the purchase, under at least some jurisdictions this makes this license non-binding to the customer (so, if Hyperion had agreement what they can distribute and on what conditions, they might have broken it)
- license containing a lot of unclear statements, questions on the official forum still unanswered: http://forum.hyperion-entertainment....hp?f=15&t=4142
- silent changes of the product, IMHO for the worse (after modifications exec takes visibly more ROM space; not fun for custom ROM builders) without notifying the customers; I was lucky, ROMs which are the most important for me I received in their original form (for A3000, A4000, and A4000T - unfortunately, I only got the 2nd release ROMs and Hyperion refuses to deliver to me the originals), but I have all the original exec's on the ADFs; as far as I know, since some time all the customers only got the 2nd release (IMHO inferior) exec.library on the Modules ADFs

So... if Hyperion gets punished, it will make me somewhat happy.

[edit] But why Hyperion and Cloanto can't came to some kind of agreement (like: Hyperion ensures OS 3 development, each time it releases a payed upgrade Cloanto is allowed to take previous versions and integrate them with Amiga Forever, possibly sharing some profit from selling it with Hyperion) - is completely beyond me.
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