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Old 29 October 2018, 01:11   #101
nexus
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well we know the take down was real and not a DNS error and we know the reason why now
as they edited it
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Old 29 October 2018, 02:26   #102
malko
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nexus View Post
hyperion entertainment starts legal actions against 4 companies
https://docs.google.com/file/d/1PCGw...jRQLaUS4k/edit
sigh
As, as far as I understood it, this is the link to the answer from Amiga, do you have by any chance a link to Hyprion's claim ?
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Old 29 October 2018, 02:35   #103
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Originally Posted by malko View Post
As, as far as I understood it, this is the link to the answer from Amiga, do you have by any chance a link to Hyprion's claim ?
The document you refer to is in response to item 7 of the court records:

Hyperion amended complaint of April 12, 2018

#6
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Old 29 October 2018, 03:24   #104
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I'm the last person you'd expect to back AROS, but we really need to just make that our top priority.

AROS is slow as hell on real hardware, buggy and has no real focus to get any better on classics, but it's something we could fix and own at least.

The companies that have a legal stake in the community obviously aren't ever getting us anywhere except maybe another courtroom.

What do they even want at this point? Licenses aren't making much money and the trademarks are a joke outside this community.

I bought quite a few 3.1.4 upgrades just to support development, but now I'm actually thinking that was a mistake. I fed the company more lawsuit money and the developers got nothing.

Let the tiny market run dry so they'll all just leave already.

We'd be better off as abandonware than with them dragging out the legal ownership.
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Old 29 October 2018, 07:26   #105
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Originally Posted by Heiroglyph View Post
I bought quite a few 3.1.4 upgrades just to support development, but now I'm actually thinking that was a mistake. I fed the company more lawsuit money and the developers got nothing.
We can always support the developers behind AmigaOS 3.1.4 using an alternate platform, Patreon for example, but then it would be nice to know the deal first. Maybe they got paid for their time spent already through contract?

Also, besides Thomas Richter and Olaf Barthel, who else was involved in the development?

Last edited by modrobert; 29 October 2018 at 15:45. Reason: Forgot the quote first attempt.
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Old 29 October 2018, 13:55   #106
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Originally Posted by modrobert View Post
We can always support the developers behind AmigaOS 3.1.4 using an alternate platform, Patreon for example, but then it would be nice to know the deal first. Maybe they got paid for their time spent already through contract?

Also, besides Thomas Richter and Olaf Barthel, who else was involved in the development?
I think a few testers, they were the only developers involved. If I remember right Thor said that the developers at Hyperion are not interested in 68k except them two.
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Old 29 October 2018, 14:10   #107
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Originally Posted by modrobert View Post
Also, besides Thomas Richter and Olaf Barthel, who else was involved in the development?
A few others.
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Old 29 October 2018, 15:31   #108
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Not sure this has been explicitly mentioned but Amiga Inc. requests in their response linked above that the infamous "Settlement Agreement" be rescinded and that (among others) all 3.1.4-products be revoked and destroyed. The response explicitly mentions publication of 3.1.4 and licensing of kickstarts to Individual Computers as infringements of the "Settlement Agreement".
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Old 29 October 2018, 15:46   #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heiroglyph View Post
I'm the last person you'd expect to back AROS
its a pity.
Quote:
but we really need to just make that our top priority.
ive been telling this for ages.


Quote:
AROS is slow as hell on real hardware
admittedly,
Quote:
buggy and has no real focus to get any better on classics, but it's something we could fix and own at least.

The companies that have a legal stake in the community obviously aren't ever getting us anywhere except maybe another courtroom.
my words, exactly.

Quote:
I bought quite a few 3.1.4 upgrades just to support development, but now I'm actually thinking that was a mistake.
alas, thats why i refrained from buying it, as well as anything under that label.
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Old 29 October 2018, 16:56   #110
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If they started working together rather than battling for their small slices of an already tiny pie then everyone would benefit. Now only the lawyers are winning (I'm aware that Hyperion are mainly lawyers anyway).

In the meantime I'll await 3.1.4 appearing on a Russian website.
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Old 29 October 2018, 17:07   #111
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I also thought, now this is the software to, in real "retro style", grab without paying, as Hyperion only uses the revenue to pay lawsuits to defend their illegal activities developing 3.1.4 in the first place.

It's a shame all is happening over the back of the awesome developers.

But my impatience and curiousness won and I still bought the a500 and a1200 version, just in case it got taken down again and I ended up with nothing

If you read the response from Amiga Inc, Hyperion may have shot itself in the foot one time too many now as Amiga Inc also asks for voiding the original settlement, leaving Hyperion with nothing, even not AOS 4.x. For Ben this is what he deserves though for being so greedy and just thinking about getting his own debts earned back...
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Old 29 October 2018, 17:49   #112
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I'd happily pay the money into a fund for the actual developers & testers.
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Old 29 October 2018, 17:58   #113
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The problem with paying the original devs is that they don't have free reign to do what they want.

The source is supposedly owned by one of the companies. They have to allow them to develop for it and allow them to release it under the company terms.

If the devs worked on AROS, it would open AROS to lawsuits by the same companies because the devs can't forget what they saw in the original source.

While someone still claims to own it, we're at their mercy with the original OS and their plans and ours don't seem to have much of anything in common.
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Old 29 October 2018, 19:18   #114
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I strongly doubt such lawsuit would be successful. Compare it to a developer that works for a company and leaves to work for a competitor. That is not illegal, nor does it put the competitor into trouble. As long as you did not take company property or worked on classified (military) material, you are free. The reason general clauses like this are not enforceable is that it would mean no-one could switch company in the end. It would go against basic human rights, as it means you get prevented from practising your profession and choose who you work for.

Imagine a world where this was true, it would be endless lawsuits and people being treated essentially as slaves. Much like how it works today in Amiga world...
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Old 29 October 2018, 19:29   #115
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its fine if the developers subdue themselves to conditions they are considering fair, however i find it a bit questionable to drag wider audience in, having them to sign ndas and the like, even though im pretty certain, this audience wouldnt comtribute to an open alternative anyway.

now, whether claims based on such agreements would be successful or not, i cant predict. but if they wouldnt stand a chance, what would be the reason to sign them in the first place. i know of cases when talented developers that are prohibited to contribute to certain projects or at least they assume so. i think its enough, not really to observe these practices with content.
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Old 29 October 2018, 20:05   #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spudje View Post
I also thought, now this is the software to, in real "retro style", grab without paying, as Hyperion only uses the revenue to pay lawsuits to defend their illegal activities developing 3.1.4 in the first place.

It's a shame all is happening over the back of the awesome developers.

But my impatience and curiousness won and I still bought the a500 and a1200 version, just in case it got taken down again and I ended up with nothing

If you read the response from Amiga Inc, Hyperion may have shot itself in the foot one time too many now as Amiga Inc also asks for voiding the original settlement, leaving Hyperion with nothing, even not AOS 4.x. For Ben this is what he deserves though for being so greedy and just thinking about getting his own debts earned back...
According the "Infamous" settlement agreement Hyperion is certainly allowed to develop 3.1.4, their real problem is distributing OS 3.1 and updates with trademarks allowed "Solely for purposes of marketing, distributing and making OS 4 available".

Since OS 4 is defined as the version of AmigaOS developed by Hyperion, based in part on OS 3.1, Hyperion's obvious blunder was to use version 3.1.4 instead of a previously unused version number.

However, even if Hyperion corrects that particular mistake, the numerous OS 1.2, OS 1.3, OS 3.1 and trademark mistakes will still come back to bite them. Now, assuming the Amiga parties actually succeed in having the settlement agreement become "Null and Void", Hyperion can still distribute OS 4 under it's previous licensing agreement (until further action is taken to terminate that agreement as well).

Last edited by SpeedGeek; 29 October 2018 at 20:33.
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Old 29 October 2018, 20:26   #117
nogginthenog
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Amino Raises $1.65M To Replace Old-School Forums With Mobile Communities
https://techcrunch.com/2014/07/08/amino-seed-funding/

Watch out EAB!

Why are these guys interested in the Amiga?
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Old 29 October 2018, 21:00   #118
oscillik
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Originally Posted by nogginthenog View Post
Amino Raises $1.65M To Replace Old-School Forums With Mobile Communities
https://techcrunch.com/2014/07/08/amino-seed-funding/

Watch out EAB!

Why are these guys interested in the Amiga?
This article is from 4 years ago...
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Old 29 October 2018, 22:15   #119
spudje
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Is that even the same Amino?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SpeedGeek View Post
According the "Infamous" settlement agreement Hyperion is certainly allowed to develop 3.1.4
Well, that's what Amiga inc debates. And IMO that is one way to interpret this quote from the settlement (AOS4 and beyond only):

Quote:
Within the framework of the settlement agreement Hyperion is granted an exclusive, perpetual, worldwide right to AmigaOS 3.1 in order to use, develop, modify, commercialize, distribute and market AmigaOS 4.x (and subsequent versions of AmigaOS including without limitation AmigaOS 5) in any form, on any medium and for any current or future hardware platform under the exclusive trademark "AmigaOS" (Amiga operating system) and using other associated trademarks (such as the "BoingBall" logo).

Last edited by spudje; 29 October 2018 at 22:24.
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Old 29 October 2018, 22:16   #120
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So it still might be a good idea to buy it now instead of later?

This legal fighting makes the whole thing very strange. I am happy someone produces a product i like, and the next party wants it to be recalled from the market.

I mean, this is an operating system for a computer that is more than 25 years old. There is even no competing product from this Amiga Inc. at the market. So they dont even loose anything by letting Hyperion sell 3.1.4. It is not like anyone would loose customers due to the release of 3.1.4.

I still don't get it.
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