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Old 14 March 2018, 21:41   #1
MigaTech
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Arrow Amiga vs WinUAE

This is another Amiga vs thread in which I would like to see what the EAB community think of this one?

Disclaimer: I have no problem against WinUAE users and have only started this thread as a matter of overall interest in the views, from other EAB members.

Original Retro Amiga hardware has become very expensive these days but for good reason. I have noticed that most have reverted to using WinUAE, they say it is better. Maybe it is, maybe it isn't but is it helping the original Amiga hardware?

Could this prove to be a problem for the original Amiga hardware both in preservation, sales and future upgrades? How many people would still be using original Amiga's in the future? Is the same thing going to happen to Amiga again, whereby no one would be using originals, just copies! <Pun on the vigorous game piracy that helped to bring Amiga down back in the day! So would emulation do the same?

How many EAB members actually own any original Amiga hardware? Could this cause hardware geniuses to think, no point everyone is emulating. Just like the software houses thought, no point everyone is copying and leaving!

After all the PC finished the Amiga once, is it going to do it again with emulation?

Should it be in our interest as an Amiga passionate following community, to help keep the trueness of Amiga, forever?
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Old 15 March 2018, 15:39   #2
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Well, eventually the original MOS/CSG chips are going to wear out and die. Probably quite soon, given the age of those chips. So emulation is probably the best way to preserve Amiga, or any other vintage computer long-term.

I still have my A1200 (and an A500, two C64's and a VIC20) in storage over in my parents' attic, but I'm not using it. I mainly use my MiST when playing Amiga and C64 games, because of the accuracy, low latency and the ability to use my original old joysticks without adapters. WinUAE is extremely convenient though, and I run it on my laptop and Windows tablet, when on the move. Plus, with emulation you can do stuff that was impossible on "real" hardware, like the AmiKit, or running AB3D II at more than 5 FPS.
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Old 15 March 2018, 15:47   #3
chip
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I don't own any original Amiga hardware

I use WinUAE since 2002

My one is a practical choice

I guess real hardware would be better for experiencing demos and games

But with emulation i need just one click and i can change systems easily

No need to have 2 or 3 different real computers, just for example

Furthermore nearly all things (demos and games) i tried work fine

Perhaps if emulation would be worst i would be motivated to buy original hardware, but this is not the case of WinUAE, it works great really

So, for me, at the moment and probably in the future, emulation wins
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Old 15 March 2018, 16:21   #4
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I was using A1200 long time ago before I find winuae. So yes, I own real hardware, but I do not use it anymore. I simple have no space for it. I prefer winuae rather than building collection of hardware. Emulation is simple and allow me to keep great amount of virtual stuff well organized. Only cons are compatibility issues, there will be always few games that do not run or have some glitches on latest uae.
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Old 15 March 2018, 16:42   #5
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I only use the original kit but I sense I am an exception to the rule. Back in the nineties when I had my first Amiga problem I worried silly about the kit wearing out so my collecting started so I would always have a replacement.

Fast forward to the late nineties and everyone was gutting their kit to stick in towers to my horror, so we lost a lot of 1200s at that time.

Each five years we get another spell of gutting and hacking in an effort to keep the kit alive and each time another wave of Amiga users actually destroy more of the stock.

I don't think WinUEA can be accused of threatening the kit cus it does very little to harm the stock. It really has always been the current owner of kit that is most likely to fail when it comes to the life of an Amiga.

Ebay has become pretty stagnant in truth and there really are only Buy Now nutters on there that load anything retro with bonkers prices. This has killed off any meaningful auction activity. Did use to be different.

The kit is falling over. It will not last. You can only do so much... trust me its all I do. But just as one things fixed another rears its ugly head. It really is the biggest challenge. Time was you could be a software jocky alone to be an Amiga enthusiast. Today you need a degree in electrical engineering. And so the wheel has moved on from fitting cards to actually building components yourself. AND THAT is where the problem lies.

The emulator will in the end be the only saving factor in all of this. Imagine you are in the Star Ship whatever in the year 3035 and the captain needs data on an archaic Amiga to fight some oddity of science. I doubt they will have an old Amiga lying about. However they may just be able to emulate what is necessary.

And so I applaud those that work to emulate. I do not have such a warm view on those that keep hacking Amiga 1200s into oblivion. But then I don't condone the removal of intumescent coatings that have gone yellow just to satisfy some need for white cases.

That's my two bits. I love the Amiga.. but then I'm a nutter. I got over 25 1200s and my hope is that at least one lasts till I die. Not doing too bad as my original 1200 from 1993 still works without fault and runs every single day ... Always has done. As do all my computers ( don't tell anyone but I have never recapped a single bit of kit. I must be in a cap free zone. Never get an issue... But then I don't use an emulator or flash card or Goatie thing or even a mobile phone ... ) Bonkers.

Today I was playing on an unexpanded 1200... whoo hoo!!

http://www.scuzzscink.com/amiga/scuzzblog.htm

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Old 15 March 2018, 18:22   #6
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I've got a collection of Amigas; A500, A500+, A600, A1200, A1200T and one of the A600s and my A1200T were used daily up until I had to give up my man-cave to make way for another ankle-biter.

So, at the moment, I'm emulation only.

However, we are moving to a bigger house (hopefully), so I'll soon have my man-cave back and real hardware to run on.

I've also got quite a collection of retro gaming consoles and stuff, too. While I do loads of retro-playing on emulators, to me, there is nothing better than playing games on the original hardware.
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Old 15 March 2018, 18:37   #7
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I have 2 A500s, 1 A500+, 1 A600, 1 CD32 and 2 A1200s.

The only ones out at the moment are the CD32, the 600 and a 1200,
but they hardly get turned on.

WinUAE is good for testing purposes (although the Audio on mine is ****).
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Old 15 March 2018, 18:50   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nobby_UK View Post
WinUAE is good for testing purposes
WinUAE is the #1 tool for any real Amiga user. You can do lots of things with it to test and prepare for your hardware.

There's no way I'd set up an Amiga drive on the real thing ever again when I can do it in WinUAE in a jiffy.

WinUAE only makes real hardware usage better. Without it, there'd be a lot of masochism.
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Old 15 March 2018, 19:06   #9
Retro-Nerd
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Same for me. I use WinUAE since 2001 for testing and real hardware preparation. But i've played and completed some non action games in emulation, mostly adventures. Action games i still prefer on my real A1200+CRT TV, mostly for to the lagless gaming experience.
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Old 15 March 2018, 19:21   #10
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Like Akira I use WinUAE for setting up drives, and that's it. It's real hardware from there, the list of which is in my sig.
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Old 15 March 2018, 19:38   #11
DamienD
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I probably don't even need to comment as you all know what my preference is; WinUAE!!!

Back in the day I had a second hand expanded A500 (512KB Chip & 512KB Slow RAM). Unfortunately after a few years it started dying...

If it wasn't for WinUAE my Amiga days would have been forgotten; I was very happy when I discovered this back in 2003.

Also, as others have said:
  • I don't have space or money to buy real hardware.
  • Hardware is falling and will not last unless you keep throwing money at it.
  • No need to have numerous different real Amiga's to get the full range of games / demos working.
  • I can emulate loads of different stuff for A500 / A1200 / CD32 / CDTV / AmigaCD etc.
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Old 15 March 2018, 19:49   #12
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If you have
A modern PC capable of shaders
A 19" monitor capable of 50hz
A good joystick
A good set of speakers

Then WinUAE. You can do without the shaders anyway. So even an ancient PC, P4 or so can do with a joystick and a 50hz monitor. Real hardware is mostly for people with space and extra money.
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Old 15 March 2018, 19:53   #13
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WinUAE is my test Amiga as well as used for setting up real drives for use in my Amigas.

I'll try out programs and or patches to see how they behave under WinUAE before trying them on real hardware.

WinUAE brought me back into the Amiga scene, thanks to how well it emulated it and reminding me of how much I enjoyed my Amiga's years ago. So much that I picked up an A4000D and A4000T and became heavily involved with another emulator - Amithlon.

I like real hardware but WinUAE is fantastic and complements my real hardware very well.
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Old 15 March 2018, 21:02   #14
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"Ever since WinUAE got to the standard it is today, I haven't bothered much with my real Amiga's"

Amigaboy - Whore Apprentice / Australia
...
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Old 15 March 2018, 21:11   #15
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If only I could afford some gsync gear, I could start retiring my real Amigas. But if there's any jerks/tearing in the animation, I can't have that.. Thus emulation is currently only useful to me for setting up drives for real machines and quick tests of dumped disks.
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Old 15 March 2018, 21:13   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jope View Post
If only I could afford some gsync gear, I could start retiring my real Amigas.
You could if you sold all your Amiga's my friend

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jope View Post
But if there's any jerks/tearing in the animation, I can't have that..
Many people on EAB now have gsync and have confirmed that there's no more slight jerks/tearing
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Old 15 March 2018, 22:42   #17
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Due to space requirements, since 18 years now, an A500, A2000 & A1200 are turned off and stay quietly in the cellar (no one is vanilla )... I never lost interest in the Amiga but the PC I use for professional reason took all the place... . I will plug the Amiga back once, just hope they will turn on .

I have tried most of the releases of Amiga & C64 emulators since I bought my first 486DX2/66 in ~1992 .
In my opinion, emulators are an "extension" to the real hardware and I have much respect for the people developing those piece of software .

Actual price of classic Amiga hardware* is something I do not understand. People are really crazy with the price they ask for (and not for good reason) .

Computing must be affordable and not be something for an "elite", in this way, emulators are the guarantors of a more wider spread. And are the best immaterial answer for preservation, so the more accurate emulators are, the more effective the preservation is

*I do not speak about hardware manufactured recently. Only about hardware manufactured in the 80'-90's and sold today.
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Old 16 March 2018, 02:14   #18
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Quote:
If only I could afford some gsync gear
Freesync hardware is just fine for emulation. But i guess you are a nVidia guy.

Last edited by Retro-Nerd; 16 March 2018 at 17:03.
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Old 16 March 2018, 02:50   #19
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I use both. I have a A1200 for doing pixel art (with a tablet) in Brilliance and mod tracking in Protracker. The real thing satisfies my nostalgia in a way an emulator doesn't.

For C/asm development I use FS-UAE. I cross-compile in Emacs, flip to UAE and run. If I need to debug I bring up the UAE console. Streamlining development on real hardware would need a master/slave setup.

A lot of the original hardware will die off in my lifetime, maybe most of it. That's why I'm enjoying it while it's still working. Jen's A1200 Reloaded project might extend that quite a bit further; the only old chips in there are NOS AGA.
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Old 16 March 2018, 03:02   #20
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The only thing I have left is my CD32. My Amiga 500, 500+ and 1200 have all sputtered their last sput. I use WinUAE and I have an old 32 bit Dell Laptop that runs AROS.

The original hardware, sadly, is on borrowed time. The software, on the other hand, need never die.
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