Perfect LCD monitor for use with AMiGA

[DDNI]

@Pbaregas, I have just tried Slamtilt through RGB SCART on my 940MW.
I dont get any of the screen lag or blurring that you describe.

I suspect that there is a degree of personal perception in this though as everyone picks up fault differently.

The 940MW is, in my opinion the most versatile Monitor for PC and Amiga RTG/Native use.

[girv]

I guess whatever monitor or input I use, I'll still be faced with the monitor having to upscale from 320x256 and probably not being optimised to scale from such low resolutions, right?

So looking for a Plan B, what's a good option for an external box to do the upscaling from Amiga PAL lores modes ? I did a quick Google on xrgb2+ but it seems to be NTSC only? I may be off on that one.

[DDNI]

A PAL lo res pic for Girv. Not optimised, just dropped my Voodoo 1024x768 res to PAL lo res. Title bar and stuff is screwed.

[pbareges]

@girv :

xrgb2+ is fully pal compatible but i think there are issues with xrgb3...as they're very hard to find now, i just ordered a 800x600 cga/rgb to vga box for my second a1200...i will let you know about perf...this seems to be designed for arcade cabinets...

@ddni

about slamtilt : really if you're used to the game, you will notice a difference (ie you have to push keys a few ms before to get the same result and in intense game phases this will alter gameplay significantly)

i just attached a comparison between photos taken on the exact same screen (940mw)...on the left, amiga rgb on scart input and on the right amiga rgb through xrgb2+ on vga input....

[DDNI]

@pbaregas, cool pic thanks the xrgb2+ does look very clear.... hmmmm ddni peers into his empty wallet

[Jope]

It's very difficult to get an XRGB box.

I'd love an XRGB-3, but it's sold out everywhere.. I have the XRGB-2 myself, but it's maximum output resolution is 1024x768 and none of my TFTs have that resolution. Awful banding when the TFT streteches the picture. :-(

[pbareges]

Originally Posted by Jope

It's very difficult to get an XRGB box.

I'd love an XRGB-3, but it's sold out everywhere.. I have the XRGB-2 myself, but it's maximum output resolution is 1024x768 and none of my TFTs have that resolution. Awful banding when the TFT streteches the picture. :-(

940mw native resolution is 1440x900, still by playing with DTC options, black lines and sharpness on the xrgb2 setup i managed to get a pretty good rendering + it's still relatively easy to get lcd with native 1024x768...

[arkpandora]

Thanks for your comments.

@DDNI

Here is a rough and ready vid of Alien Breed 2 AGA to show scrolling

Your Alien Breed II video is taken from the VGA input, so animation quality only depends on your external scan doubler, not the monitor itself, unless the response time is bad (which anyway would be secondary compared to the awful scan doubling of my Samsung).

@Pbaregas, I have just tried Slamtilt through RGB SCART on my 940MW.
I dont get any of the screen lag or blurring that you describe.

I suspect that there is a degree of personal perception in this though as everyone picks up fault differently.

In my case, it's definitely not personal perception : my Samsung is unusable unless you don't care about animation, and I have sent it back to Samsung. I'm now waiting for the replacement.


@pbareges

guys...really don't get mistaken by the hires screen modes...yes hi res rendering is good on the scart input on samsung 940mw and 225mw, and best of all interlaced modes are not flickering (best rendering of all!)...but low res modes are pure shit (and most games are lowres as you may know)..but this has nothing to do with samsung models...it's just that average upscan converter in lcv monitors does not give a shit about 320*200 modes rendering...

On my Samsung, animation is bad whatever the screen mode - High or Low Res, interlaced or not.

i just attached a comparison between photos taken on the exact same screen (940mw)...on the left, amiga rgb on scart input and on the right amiga rgb through xrgb2+ on vga input....

Nice and clear comparison ! Given the bad animation I haven't even considered the upscaling quality, but it alone would definitely justify an external scan doubler.

[DDNI]

@ arkpandora, the ABII video is from the Amiga RGB output to Samsung SCART input. No VGA involvement at all

[arkpandora]

Thank you for clarifying. Then it confirms that my Samsung was a bad copy, although some of its flaws would be absorbed by the processing of your video.

[DDNI]

@ arkpandora my mark1 human eyeball can tell you that the output from RGB SCART on my 940MW is very good... Of course the processing from my eyeball and brain may absorb some of the flaws

[arkpandora]

OK - then at least your eyeball and I have the same views.

[Calgor]

Originally Posted by pbareges

i just attached a comparison between photos taken on the exact same screen (940mw)...on the left, amiga rgb on scart input and on the right amiga rgb through xrgb2+ on vga input....

The picture on the left IMHO really does not look that good, looks like it is through svideo. It looks like DDNI's pics where there is white fringing around the black text. (though it may just be the camera). The one on the right looks excellent, and appears as if through the amiga's rgb port without conversion.

How smooth is the scrolling through the XRGB2+? And does the SCART input cause any artefacts or trails when using the mouse, especially in interlaced PAL/NTSC modes? (I find it is not as noticeable on LCDs for scrolling text especially on a smaller screen).

[arkpandora]

Originally Posted by Calgor

The picture on the left IMHO really does not look that good, looks like it is through svideo.

Actually I get the same result on my Samsung 2032MW (through SCART) : colors are altered and the upscaling is rough. Yet it's nothing in comparison with the awful animation and artefacts.

Originally Posted by Calgor

And does the SCART input cause any artefacts or trails when using the mouse, especially in interlaced PAL/NTSC modes?

I think he has partly answered this question, but any more precise answer is welcome for me as well.

[Calgor]

Originally Posted by pbareges

also on intense scrolling games like slamtilt you notice that there's a delay between your input and the screen response even if the response time is said to be 8ms

Yes, on most monitors that 8ms is only a small part of the delay. Some el cheapo monitors however do not have that extra delay as they do minimal (any?) processing. When you see blur, it appears to be the 8ms type figure (gtg/btb) figure of the panel that is important, but for clicking something and then seeing it on the screen it is often mostly video processing delay. I observe this from looking at digitalversus.com.

This is the discussed above Samsung 2032MW compared with the famed Samsung 226BW (samsung S panel):

http://www.digitalversus.com/duels.p...4&p2=2104&ph=1

Notice the difference in ghosting on animation. Also select the delay time to see how fast the 226BW is compared with other monitors.

It is not just the brand that is important, but the specific model, and the type of panel used (TN/S-IPS/*VA).

[girv]

I should be ordering a Samsung SM-225MD fairly soon, I'll let you know how I get on when I get the 'miga hooked up.

http://www.samsung.com/uk/business/b...ps/sm225md.htm

[arkpandora]

Thank you !

But I would recommend you to look for another brand, as all the feedback I have gathered on the Samsung models is really not encouraging. For example one of the following LG models :

M1921A-BZ
M203W-BZ
M208WA
M228WA

However I haven't ever used any other LCD TV than my Samsung, so I couldn't guarantee that these models will bring better results. But at least two Amiga.org members are using LG models (M1721A and M1921A) with their Amiga and they are happy with them.

[girv]

DDNI is happy with his Samsung

The M228WA looks interesting thanks, I'll check it out.

[arkpandora]

I don't mean that nobody is happy with his Samsung, but on the one hand that other Samsung models and copies of my model (SyncMaster 2032MW) seem as bad or almost as bad as mine, and on the other hand that Samsung's building quality is poor enough to give unpredictable results.

As I have not yet collected any bad report about LG models yet, at the moment I may reasonably conclude that buying an LG is not as risky. Moreover, as my Samsung is too bad to be usable with an Amiga for anything else than CLI or word processing (unless you use the VGA input - but then it won't take 50 Hz), I think that Samsung should not be encouraged in that way. But I will confirm this once I receive my replacement.

[Calgor]

In case you missed it, check out my review of my monitor. I will need to update comments as the viewing angle on certain colours is worse than I first thought. (e.g. some colours are darker in the top third of the screen, or look the same as other colours when they should not!):

http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=35368

Most Viewsonics seem to be able to do 50Hz through the VGA from comments I have read.