operation thunderbolt

albino · 15 June 2017, 18:14

I everyone,

I was just wondering if the amiga version is a straight port of the st?
Or did he get some improvement allowed by the ocs chipset.

dlfrsilver · 15 June 2017, 19:02

Yes this game is an ST port.

albino · 15 June 2017, 19:07

Thanks denis,

tough the game is quite good conversion of the arcade it could have been even better on the amiga..

dlfrsilver · 15 June 2017, 19:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by albino

Thanks denis,

tough the game is quite good conversion of the arcade it could have been even better on the amiga..

I personally perfer Operation Wolf to Operation Thunderbolt. It's more licked up, and the color palette is better (normal, since Taito Gave Ocean France the arcade assets directly).

For operation thundebolt, it's a rework.

albino · 16 June 2017, 00:01

Quote:

I personally perfer Operation Wolf to Operation Thunderbolt. It's more licked up, and the color palette is better (normal, since Taito Gave Ocean France the arcade assets directly).

Is it an atari st port too?

dlfrsilver · 16 June 2017, 09:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by albino

Is it an atari st port too?

Not exactly. Operation wolf is using IFF format files. taito gave them in this Amiga file format the assets on 15 floppies.

albino · 16 June 2017, 17:25

15 FLOPPIES!

Did ocean france coded the game taking advantages of the ocs chipset, or did they ported afterward to they amiga?

They graphics are fairely close to the arcade for sure...

dlfrsilver · 16 June 2017, 19:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by albino

15 FLOPPIES!

Did ocean france coded the game taking advantages of the ocs chipset, or did they ported afterward to they amiga?

They graphics are fairely close to the arcade for sure...

Ocean France coded 98% of the time for the machine the game was running on. This meant the amiga was really well exploited.

For instance, Pang is a true 64 colors game (not halfbright). Same for Snow Bros, which is using more than 60 colors on screen.

they had top programmers, and one of the best of the industry.

His name is Mcoder, also known as Jean-Charles Meyrignac. He was a 68000 god

absolute king of optimization !

Pierre Adane, who was an Amiga coder, just got better at his contact, he learned how to code in the best possible way, as well as optimizing like hell his code.

The history do the rest : Pang, Snow Bros, and all the others great game he did

Amiga1992 · 16 June 2017, 19:44

I don't think it was just about good code, they did all these amazing arcade conversions, knowing, conceptually, exactly where to cut corners and compromise, without losing the original game's feel.

A great team of devs no doubt.

albino · 16 June 2017, 19:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akira

I don't think it was just about good code, they did all these amazing arcade conversions, knowing, conceptually, exactly where to cut corners and compromise, without losing the original game's feel.

A great team of devs no doubt.

I was very desapointed by ivanoe, ocean beach volley, toki is a great game unfortunely the screen is very small i'm sure team 17 would have done a better job..

dlfrsilver · 17 June 2017, 08:42

Basically, Ivanhoe was not really a great game : it was made in mind for the ST, so if you check the amount of sprite frames for the main hero, that's way too thin to make the animation good enough.

About Toki, no, even Team 17 would not have done better. Let me explain why :

Toki is a game made to run on OCS and ECS amigas, with 512kb of ram. In order to see the coin-op of Toki exactly ported, you'd need at least 4mb of ram even with less colors.

That's the first point. Next, Toki is FULLY using the amiga chipset to the maximum :

it uses the dual playfield feature, with 8 colors for the background, 16 for the sprites, and 16 for the foreground. the remaining colors are applied with the copper. This bring out something like 64 colors on screen.

Next, some foreground/backgrounds have a double palette, changed with the copper.
so 32 colors.

I'm saying all this minding that i have fully extracted all the assets for this game, as well as posting on HOL all the maps.

So in the end, Toki screen size has been calculated with all those constraints in mind.
With 512kb of ram, you just couldn't have a bigger screen.

at this time, Amiga with 1 mb where not on the market (or it was too soon).

Retro1234 · 17 June 2017, 12:01

I dont think Toki uses dual playfield it has to re-draw the background thats probably why the screen is small, if it was dual playfield it could be larger screen and faster but limited to 7*8 colours.

dlfrsilver · 17 June 2017, 14:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Retro1234

I dont think Toki uses dual playfield it has to re-draw the background thats probably why the screen is small, if it was dual playfield it could be larger screen and faster but limited to 7*8 colours.

Toki use the dual playfield system. The background used for that is in 8 colors.

The screen is small due to memory constraint. It's not a 1mb game, but a 512kb game.

Galahad/FLT · 17 June 2017, 15:17

Sorry Denis but it isn't dual playfield. Toki is 32 colour 5 bitplane mode for the main game screen, and 16 colour 4 bitplane mode for the score stuff. The screen is that small so that it can redraw the background parallax layer.

Amiga1992 · 17 June 2017, 18:35

Toki is an amazing conversion and I do not mind teh smalelr screen size at all. I quite like those square screen conversions. GnG also used this resolution and worked well.

Retro1234 · 17 June 2017, 19:18

Addams Family also had a smaller screen.

dlfrsilver · 17 June 2017, 19:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galahad/FLT

Sorry Denis but it isn't dual playfield. Toki is 32 colour 5 bitplane mode for the main game screen, and 16 colour 4 bitplane mode for the score stuff. The screen is that small so that it can redraw the background parallax layer.

I have ripped with maptapper the whole assets of this game.

Yes it's a 5 bpl game, but since it uses multiple palettes, the color count is around 60.

*EDIT* I have checked Toki's source code, and indeed, the dual playfield is done in software.

albino · 17 June 2017, 20:04

Fore me it looks ocean france didn't master the amiga as good as the major amiga programming team...they did descent conversion but for instance the sale curve could handle better the amiga...

dlfrsilver · 17 June 2017, 20:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by albino

Fore me it looks ocean france didn't master the amiga as good as the major amiga programming team...they did descent conversion but for instance the sale curve could handle better the amiga...

What do you exactly mean ?

Sales Curves got access to the arcade assets of the games they converted.

Next, theirs games used the DLS system, aka Dynamic loading system. It allows to use the computer like a coin-op machine, with almost no limit out of the disk space.

Galahad/FLT · 17 June 2017, 20:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by dlfrsilver

I have ripped with maptapper the whole assets of this game.

Yes it's a 5 bpl game, but since it uses multiple palettes, the color count is around 60.

*EDIT* I have checked Toki's source code, and indeed, the dual playfield is done in software.

Denis, its still not dual playfield

15 June 2017, 18:14	#1
albino Registered User Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: france Age: 45 Posts: 220	operation thunderbolt I everyone, I was just wondering if the amiga version is a straight port of the st? Or did he get some improvement allowed by the ocs chipset.

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15 June 2017, 19:02	#2
dlfrsilver CaptainM68K-SPS France Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Melun nearby Paris/France Age: 46 Posts: 10,412	Yes this game is an ST port.

15 June 2017, 19:07	#3
albino Registered User Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: france Age: 45 Posts: 220	Thanks denis, tough the game is quite good conversion of the arcade it could have been even better on the amiga..

16 June 2017, 17:25	#7
albino Registered User Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: france Age: 45 Posts: 220	15 FLOPPIES! Did ocean france coded the game taking advantages of the ocs chipset, or did they ported afterward to they amiga? They graphics are fairely close to the arcade for sure...

16 June 2017, 19:44	#9
Amiga1992 Registered User Join Date: May 2001 Location: ? Posts: 19,645	I don't think it was just about good code, they did all these amazing arcade conversions, knowing, conceptually, exactly where to cut corners and compromise, without losing the original game's feel. A great team of devs no doubt.

17 June 2017, 08:42	#11
dlfrsilver CaptainM68K-SPS France Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Melun nearby Paris/France Age: 46 Posts: 10,412	Basically, Ivanhoe was not really a great game : it was made in mind for the ST, so if you check the amount of sprite frames for the main hero, that's way too thin to make the animation good enough. About Toki, no, even Team 17 would not have done better. Let me explain why : Toki is a game made to run on OCS and ECS amigas, with 512kb of ram. In order to see the coin-op of Toki exactly ported, you'd need at least 4mb of ram even with less colors. That's the first point. Next, Toki is FULLY using the amiga chipset to the maximum : it uses the dual playfield feature, with 8 colors for the background, 16 for the sprites, and 16 for the foreground. the remaining colors are applied with the copper. This bring out something like 64 colors on screen. Next, some foreground/backgrounds have a double palette, changed with the copper. so 32 colors. I'm saying all this minding that i have fully extracted all the assets for this game, as well as posting on HOL all the maps. So in the end, Toki screen size has been calculated with all those constraints in mind. With 512kb of ram, you just couldn't have a bigger screen. at this time, Amiga with 1 mb where not on the market (or it was too soon).

17 June 2017, 12:01	#12
Retro1234 Phone Homer Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: 5150 Posts: 5,773	I dont think Toki uses dual playfield it has to re-draw the background thats probably why the screen is small, if it was dual playfield it could be larger screen and faster but limited to 7*8 colours.

17 June 2017, 15:17	#14
Galahad/FLT Going nowhere Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: United Kingdom Age: 50 Posts: 8,986	Sorry Denis but it isn't dual playfield. Toki is 32 colour 5 bitplane mode for the main game screen, and 16 colour 4 bitplane mode for the score stuff. The screen is that small so that it can redraw the background parallax layer.

17 June 2017, 18:35	#15
Amiga1992 Registered User Join Date: May 2001 Location: ? Posts: 19,645	Toki is an amazing conversion and I do not mind teh smalelr screen size at all. I quite like those square screen conversions. GnG also used this resolution and worked well.

17 June 2017, 19:18	#16
Retro1234 Phone Homer Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: 5150 Posts: 5,773	Addams Family also had a smaller screen.

17 June 2017, 20:04	#18
albino Registered User Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: france Age: 45 Posts: 220	Fore me it looks ocean france didn't master the amiga as good as the major amiga programming team...they did descent conversion but for instance the sale curve could handle better the amiga...

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