A4000 Picasso RTG vs Mediator PCI with graphics card

[NunoUFO]

Originally Posted by Vypr

Have you attatched the modes to the card? You need to right click, go to the menu at the top, click 'Attatch' And select the card.

I tried, but it comes back as "No Board".
Which is odd since when I boot and go to EBM I can see the boards....

[NunoUFO]

Originally Posted by Leon Besson

You may need to reboot before going into P96 mode, so the RTG drivers get loaded up with the correct monitor driver in Devs:monitors

Oh and you are clicking g at the top of the window to use the attach card feature?

Monitor drivers are there, and so are the Picasso folders and files. Unfortunately nothing comes up to attach

[NunoUFO]

Originally Posted by Vypr

Have you attatched the modes to the card? You need to right click, go to the menu at the top, click 'Attatch' And select the card.

I did none of the modes seem to work they all come up as not suitable for this board 256 and 800x600 and even lower...

Unfortunately I will have to return my GBA PII++ to get it checked. PicassoMode wasn't picking it up properly and when it did it only picked up the scandoubler and not the other card. I tried it in all the Zorro slots and even though it was showing in EBD...
What a shame, but let's see.

[NunoUFO]

Hi again, given that my short incursion into the GBAPII ++ didn't go as expected I am now contemplating these two expansion options: ZZ9000 or Mediator PCI 4000Di MK-IV 3V

Which one would you recommend?

Thank you!

[Jope]

How much do you enjoy custom chip screenmodes from application software or games? If a lot, then the ZZ9000 is probably more suitable.

[jbenam]

Originally Posted by NunoUFO

Hi again, given that my short incursion into the GBAPII ++ didn't go as expected I am now contemplating these two expansion options: ZZ9000 or Mediator PCI 4000Di MK-IV 3V

Which one would you recommend?

Thank you!

Mediators aren't a sure thing either (plenty of people had issues with them, either software or hardware) and Elbox's support isn't exactly the best. Lots of times they will just ask you to send the card back, do an unknown repair then send it back to you. Everything is very opaque and you just have to hope that things will go right and that you won't have a weird-ass incompatibility that only you have found (like my Mk. I with the A3640) and that Elbox won't fix because "you can just purchase the newer model that comes with the fix". Very bad experience, overall.

Anyway, sorry for the long-winded rant, but unless you're interested in Hedeon's fantastic work with PowerPC PCI cards, I would just get the ZZ9000, which is still in active development and supported by Lukas.

[matt3k]

Mediators aren't perfect, and they haven't been updated since the beginning (2000 or so). They do offer the best performance in your Amiga if that is your goal.

You also have the option of the Firebirds that are now available for the 3000/4000 desktops.

The ZZ9000 is a nice card for sure, but speedwise a Radeon wallups it. If productivity is important for the best experience it will make a different. HD screens on a ZZ are slow even with a over clocked 060 driving it. If you are not using it for highend productivity, the ZZ is perfect.

[grelbfarlk]

Originally Posted by matt3k

Mediators aren't perfect, and they haven't been updated since the beginning (2000 or so). They do offer the best performance in your Amiga if that is your goal.

You also have the option of the Firebirds that are now available for the 3000/4000 desktops.

Not so, Mediator had a PCI.library update just two years ago, and some other driver updates around the same time, presumably in response to Hedeon's work.
The Mediator hardware was updated in the last couple years as well, but that was just to include a 3.3V regulator. Probably the bridge logic has not been updated in 10 or so years.


The Firebirds are great for being open source but the drivers and bridge are either not as optimized or just not as fast, while not terribly bad they are noticeably slower than the Mediator.

[NunoUFO]

Hi guys, thank you for all the comments and help.
How has your experience been in terms of waiting time for the ZZ9000?

[NunoUFO]

Originally Posted by grelbfarlk

Not so, Mediator had a PCI.library update just two years ago, and some other driver updates around the same time, presumably in response to Hedeon's work.
The Mediator hardware was updated in the last couple years as well, but that was just to include a 3.3V regulator. Probably the bridge logic has not been updated in 10 or so years.


The Firebirds are great for being open source but the drivers and bridge are either not as optimized or just not as fast, while not terribly bad they are noticeably slower than the Mediator.

Where can I get a Firebird?

[trixster]

Amibay. The seller is called Hese.

[NunoUFO]

Originally Posted by trixster

Amibay. The seller is called Hese.

I've seen it but he sells the PCBs and components. Does he also put them together?

Thank you

[jbenam]

Originally Posted by grelbfarlk

The Firebirds are great for being open source but the drivers and bridge are either not as optimized or just not as fast, while not terribly bad they are noticeably slower than the Mediator.

Do you have link with benchmarks, etc.? I was wondering if it's worth for me to build a Firebird 4000, even if I already own a Mediator Mk. I.

Thanks!

[Daedalus]

From a performance perspective, the Mediator with a Voodoo or Radeon is probably top of the pile, closely followed by the ZZ9000. None of the other solutions mentioned (including the Vampire) can do resolutions in the full HD region without some sort of compromise, or at all.

Zorro-II cards will be particularly slow at redrawing full screens, as the bandwidth is simply too low to allow a full screen of data every frame, so that will be a speed limiting factor for things like screen flips (as mentioned) or RTG compatible games such as Quake, Payback, Earth2140, Napalm etc., which will probably be no faster than AGA. Zorro-III and PCI both remove this bottleneck, so the next limitation is the resolution, governed by the pixel clock and video RAM. The Picasso IV, while it does use Zorro-III, only has 4MB, which limits it to 1600x1200 at 16-bit, and the pixel clock means even that resolution can only be achieved in interlaced mode. Non-interlaced and 24-bit modes require the resolution to be dropped to 1280x1024. And the Vampire's pixel clock limits it to an even lower 1280x720 unless you drop the refresh rate way down to 24Hz. The ZZ9000, Voodoo and Radeon can all do 1920x1080, and even higher (the Voodoo tops out at 1920x1200 in my experience, the ZZ9000 and Radeon can probably both go much higher). The downside of the PCI solutions is that there isn't a native video passthrough, so you either need to deal with two outputs (e.g. a monitor that can handle both signals and can switch inputs) or a switch. The Ratte autoswitch is excellent if you can find one.

[RetroPassionUK]

Originally Posted by NunoUFO

Hi again, given that my short incursion into the GBAPII ++ didn't go as expected I am now contemplating these two expansion options: ZZ9000 or Mediator PCI 4000Di MK-IV 3V

Which one would you recommend?

Thank you!

ZZ9000 for sure, like another has said the Mediator is good but can be a pig to set up but once setup they run very well.

I had a mediator setup in my A4000 with network card, USB etc But having tested the ZZ9000 that was so much less pain :-)

[NunoUFO]

Originally Posted by RetroPassionUK

ZZ9000 for sure, like another has said the Mediator is good but can be a pig to set up but once setup they run very well.

I had a mediator setup in my A4000 with network card, USB etc But having tested the ZZ9000 that was so much less pain :-)

I'm definitely torn between the Mediator and the ZZ9000.
However the latter it only seems it will be available in October direct from MNT, right?

[alexh]

Originally Posted by NunoUFO

However the latter it only seems it will be available in October direct from MNT, right?

Yes. Lucas is a nice guy who is supporting his product even though he has better things to do these days. He's easily contactable. Try doing that with Elbox.

Have you priced up PCI cards for mediator? Amiga users/resellers have bought up most/all compatible cards raising the price considerably.

[matt3k]

Originally Posted by grelbfarlk

Not so, Mediator had a PCI.library update just two years ago, and some other driver updates around the same time, presumably in response to Hedeon's work.
The Mediator hardware was updated in the last couple years as well, but that was just to include a 3.3V regulator. Probably the bridge logic has not been updated in 10 or so years.


The Firebirds are great for being open source but the drivers and bridge are either not as optimized or just not as fast, while not terribly bad they are noticeably slower than the Mediator.

My bad I was referring to the hardware issues the poster mentioned and the lack of hardware movement. I have had to ship mine back once and now the middle PCI slot isn't working so it has to go back again. I had no idea they updated the design a few years ago, thanks!

[NunoUFO]

Originally Posted by alexh

Yes. Lucas is a nice guy who is supporting his product even though he has better things to do these days. He's easily contactable. Try doing that with Elbox.

Have you priced up PCI cards for mediator? Amiga users/resellers have bought up most/all compatible cards raising the price considerably.

I guess I will put in that order with MNT then. Its all a waiting game now

Thank you!

[matt3k]

Originally Posted by NunoUFO

I'm definitely torn between the Mediator and the ZZ9000.
However the latter it only seems it will be available in October direct from MNT, right?

I would ask what you are going to do with it?

If you want the very best performance in very high resolution screens for productivity - Then the Radeon is a better choice.

If you won't be in HD screens or having the fastest video speed isn't an issue, get the zz9000.

Or buy one now and the other later and use them with 2 displays

I own both cards and they are great in their own way.

IMHO the audio add on is the most valuable piece of the ZZ. The HDMI video is also nice. Video and NIC performance are decent but not the best. It is also nice that the cards do so much on one card.

Both companies have been fine to work with for me...

They just released the MHI driver for the ZZ as well. Haven't tested it since my systems are being repaired...

Wait times for buying the ZZ new will likely be longer than advertised, that is what I experienced in my batch...