Natami project freezed, Tina project folded...what next??

[mr.vince]

Maybe those people involved have a daytime job? Look at the Amiga. It got done because the core team did extra hours (double work or more actually) to get it done.

Even though many hobby projects can be professionally executed these days (e.g. better tools and services), you still need the manpower to do it. Most people can not afford leaving work unpaid. And in the spare time there's often family. I understand this is special to certain people which don't have a life, but for others time is a luxury good.

Unfortunately, especially the Amiga market has always been full of grudgers and worriers. The moment you do something people always know better, have done better and in generall you become evil the moment you become commercial (=start selling something everyone has been craving for).

I think those that ever made something happen know what I am saying.

I won't get better by now pointing at them. But maybe asking politely, making sure this get's sorted properly, others can take over and give credit or even royalties to those that started it. But that only makes sense if doers are available and interested.

[OlafSch]

Originally Posted by mr.vince

Maybe those people involved have a daytime job? Look at the Amiga. It got done because the core team did extra hours (double work or more actually) to get it done.

Even though many hobby projects can be professionally executed these days (e.g. better tools and services), you still need the manpower to do it. Most people can not afford leaving work unpaid. And in the spare time there's often family. I understand this is special to certain people which don't have a life, but for others time is a luxury good.

Unfortunately, especially the Amiga market has always been full of grudgers and worriers. The moment you do something people always know better, have done better and in generall you become evil the moment you become commercial (=start selling something everyone has been craving for).

I think those that ever made something happen know what I am saying.

I won't get better by now pointing at them. But maybe asking politely, making sure this get's sorted properly, others can take over and give credit or even royalties to those that started it. But that only makes sense if doers are available and interested.

the main motivation for investing lots of time in a project is earning money. Unfortunately that is difficult in a small market and at a certain stage a big project can be very painful, expecially if you have something to debug and difficult to find the reason why it happens. That is even more difficult if you are doing it alone in your spare time. That is why I think opensource or at least teams sharing tasks and workload are best.

[Bamiga2002]

Add this to the list:
http://www.natami.net/knowledge.php?b=6&note=50408

Somehow I just anticipated it...

[TCD]

Why have so many AMIGA projects failed to come to fruition?(including mine). The reason boils down to the fact that nobody really realized how obsolete the AMIGA platform really is.

I think this sums it up quite nicely...

[Anemos]

I think the problem is: no money ,no projects ..
The dream still dream .. the lot of money is on the dream..
(What i say.. ) lol

[Bamiga2002]

Originally Posted by TCD

I think this sums it up quite nicely...

Did you bother reading the whole thread? There are several people claiming it's not about obsolescence.

[TCD]

Yep, a lot of people claim things and only a very few get things done. I just stated here that I think that sums up why many projects don't get finished.

P.S.: If you mean drivel like Thierry Atheist's post in that very thread, I'd rather have the 3 minutes I spend reading it back than knowing what his point was

[FOL]

Originally Posted by TCD

P.S.: If you mean drivel like Thierry Atheist's post in that very thread, I'd rather have the 3 minutes I spend reading it back than knowing what his point was

lol.

[Bamiga2002]

Originally Posted by TCD

Yep, a lot of people claim things and only a very few get things done. I just stated here that I think that sums up why many projects don't get finished.

P.S.: If you mean drivel like Thierry Atheist's post in that very thread, I'd rather have the 3 minutes I spend reading it back than knowing what his point was

As much as I'd like to refer to fanatic Thierry's posts no, they aren't the ones I meant . There was a glimpse of light due to this dude Harold, but that has kinda faded too. But there are still people that I hope keep on doing things to the right direction making it happen - that is *maybe* some day we will have a "modernized, fast, true Amiga" in our hands. Until then...

[TCD]

Maybe you understand my post a bit better after reading this: http://eab.abime.net/showpost.php?p=...&postcount=400

All fingers crossed, but until there are several positive posts about people that aren't involved in developing new hardware having the hardware and it's working, new Amiga hardware doesn't exist for me

[FOL]

Originally Posted by TCD

Maybe you understand my post a bit better after reading this: http://eab.abime.net/showpost.php?p=...&postcount=400

All fingers crossed, but until there are several positive posts about people that aren't involved in developing new hardware having the hardware and it's working, new Amiga hardware doesn't exist for me

I agree, unless there is something to show, dont announce anything.

[Amicol]

I haven't seem any updates to the NatAmi project for years,

Is NatAmi now dead?

I had high hopes for this project and thought we may, at last, have had a new 'modern' Amiga....

[Anemos]

I hope is not dead, but is sleeping..

[Lord Aga]

That is not dead which can eternal lie. Yet with strange aeons even death may die.

[jbenam]

It's just "two more weeks" Afaik, the original author said that he will keep working on it, but only in private.

Most of the "Natami Team" (did those guys actually do any real work?) just made promises all over the place, so I'm actually happy that the author is going to work on it all by himself.

Who knows, maybe one of this days we will see a finished Natami posted online somewhere

By the way, the nearest thing to a Natami is the FPGAArcade Replay 060 Expansion Board, which it seems is still coming.

And well, then there you have Jens' super-secret Amiga project...

[Amicol]

At least there's still lots going on in the world of Amiga, I won't hold my breath for the NatAmi any time soon.....
I'll also bet the 68060 add on board for the Arcade Replay won't be cheap, and won't include a rev6 68060.

I'll wait and see what Jens has up his sleeve

[Paul_s]

I think as the years roll on there will be fewer and fewer major (such as Natami) developments in the Amiga scene - sure, there might be the odd 'add-on' such as accelerators/ram/graphics type stuff for original machines.

There needs to be some realism in all this - I just read the natami.net forum post (listed above) with my head in my hands.

[OlafSch]

Originally Posted by jbenam

It's just "two more weeks" Afaik, the original author said that he will keep working on it, but only in private.

Most of the "Natami Team" (did those guys actually do any real work?) just made promises all over the place, so I'm actually happy that the author is going to work on it all by himself.

Who knows, maybe one of this days we will see a finished Natami posted online somewhere

By the way, the nearest thing to a Natami is the FPGAArcade Replay 060 Expansion Board, which it seems is still coming.

And well, then there you have Jens' super-secret Amiga project...

Everybody seems to be a expert for Natami and all related events. You were involved in everything related and what was happening behind the scene? What nick did you have? Cannot remember you. And you know Thomas Hirsch and what he thinks? And Thomas Hirsch had all the time of the world to continue with it on its own. It is now years ago. Where are the results of your hero?

[alexh]

Thomas Hirsch was the most experienced engineer in the team.

Jens Kuenzer (aka Deep Sub Micron) and Christoph Hoehne are quoted as doing some reasonable work too on the 680x0 RTL CPU but last I heard they are still trying (together with Majesta) to get it to work well in it's new guise as "Apollo/Pheonix".

The others (especially Gunnar von Boehn) all appeared at first glance to be all talk and no talent. One of the main reasons Natami has never had a public release.

But they are still doing something which is more than we are.

[matthey]

Originally Posted by alexh

Jens Kuenzer (aka Deep Sub Micron) and Christoph Hoehne are quoted as doing some reasonable work too on the 680x0 RTL CPU but last I heard they are still trying (together with Majesta) to get it to work well in it's new guise as "Apollo/Pheonix".

The others (especially Gunnar von Boehn) all appeared at first glance to be all talk and no talent. One of the main reasons Natami has never had a public release.

You did see this thread didn't you?

http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=73673

Gunnar always gets the blame for the failure of Natami but there is more to it than that. He's a big dreamer no doubt. However, the Apollo and Phoenix cores would not exist without him. The partnership with Majsta and the Phoenix core working on the Vampire would not have happened without him. Yes, Jens and Chris have been instrumental in the CPU project but Gunnar has done his share of the work and more. I believe ThomasH had some technical problems and the Natami board was expensive for anything short of perfection. Gunnar did hype up the project which gained a lot of momentum (good in a way). Gunnar did try to push the project forward (also good in a way). ThomasH and Gunnar have very different personalities and philosophies. It's too bad they didn't find more middle ground which would have been good for the project. Gunnar should have taken a lower profile with less hype and focused on the CPU. ThomasH should have been more assertive about what he wanted early and should not have pulled the plug. Yes, people say that Natami was too expensive and outdated by the time he pulled the plug but it would still be the best and fastest Amiga ever running the full Apollo CPU today.