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Old 13 October 2019, 13:36   #21
simulant
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Minuous View Post
It doesn't make it an Amiga-style, Amstrad-style etc. whatever keyboard just by putting a (presumably unauthorized) logo on it. It's missing all the Amiga-specific keys such as Help, numeric parentheses keys, etc. and has various useless keys and indicators that are meaningless on an Amiga, and arbitrary new ones that never existed such as a Boing Ball key. Seems completely pointless and vastly overpriced.

Sorry you feel that way. Mike at Amiga has actually been positive, he hasn't disallowed this and basically said his concern is he doesn't want too many campaigns running all at once - so I'm waiting still on the licensing that he hopefully will authorise. As I say Acorn also were very excited and happy. Sky UK I admit though are hardwork with their legal team, so the Amstrad and Sinclair logos may have to not be used. We'll see how it pans out.


The price quoted is for a mouse and a keyboard so I'm not sure why you feel it is vastly overpriced as injection molding and printing isn't cheap - especially for bespoke designs and keycaps that aren't currently on the market or in production.


And as many Amiga-specific layout/keys are included as can be on a PC compatible layout. Even the characters printed on the keys match the size and positioning similar to a real Amiga keyboard. Most modern keyboards have centred lettering not top left etc. "Enter" is written going downwards, little things like that to match the Amiga... And the Boing! Ball - that's a cool extra to have as a modifier key??!
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Old 13 October 2019, 14:18   #22
Minuous
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I didn't mean to imply that your profit margins are necessarily excessive, as I don't know your production costs. But as a user I can walk across the road and buy a generic keyboard and mouse at retail for far less. (PS/2 versions might be a bit harder to source but would not cost significantly more.) Paying more would only make sense if the key layout was actually Amiga-like.

Boing Ball aka Menu key seems to be handled the same as another right Amiga key with WinUAE's default mapping.
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Old 13 October 2019, 14:24   #23
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Originally Posted by Minuous View Post
I didn't mean to imply that your profit margins are necessarily excessive, as I don't know your production costs. But as a user I can walk across the road and buy a generic keyboard and mouse at retail for far less. (PS/2 versions might be a bit harder to source but would not cost significantly more.) Paying more would only make sense if the key layout was actually Amiga-like.

Boing Ball aka Menu key seems to be handled the same as another right Amiga key with WinUAE's default mapping.

Yes - I don't dispute you can buy a non-customise generic windows keyboard and mouse for a cheaper price if you want to use that. However my project is aiming to give a keyboard and mouse that have colour-matched plastics which are injection molded and keycaps (not sprayed on), as well as Amiga-like printed keys and slanted 'A' keys etc. Plus the fact that most generic keyboards and mice all are mostly all black these days, these are much more Amiga-like in colour than that at least...

*Edit*

I've also updated the image of the mockup designs on the previous page/post with a bigger image just so you can see a bit clearer.
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Old 13 October 2019, 18:07   #24
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Minuous: then dont buy one. Show some respect for anyone making "new" stuff for the Amiga.
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Old 13 October 2019, 18:17   #25
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Well for me at least anyway , the CD32 coloured scheme looks excellent , and at least does have Amiga keys, unlike my crusty beige PC Dell PS2 keyboard im using now, so it would be a huge improvement to the look of my setup.

I understand not everyone has the same tastes, but for something that to me at least looks the part compared to a crusty old PC keyboard , i know which i'd pick given the choice.
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Old 13 October 2019, 18:26   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hUMUNGUs View Post
Minuous: then dont buy one. Show some respect for anyone making "new" stuff for the Amiga.
Thanks for the passion - yeah I mean I don't want to start any controversy or arguing/flame wars etc hehe - I'm more just looking for any support from those who want the proposed products. I'm happy to try to accommodate the backers and community with requests for extra language layouts or changes that are feasible for the demand too of course

Quote:
Originally Posted by xubidoo View Post
Well for me at least anyway , the CD32 coloured scheme looks excellent , and at least does have Amiga keys, unlike my crusty beige PC Dell PS2 keyboard im using now, so it would be a huge improvement to the look of my setup.

I understand not everyone has the same tastes, but for something that to me at least looks the part compared to a crusty old PC keyboard , i know which i'd pick given the choice.
thanks yes that is the idea and I do understand the purists and all the sensitivity, people love their Amigas - I do want to be as respectful as I can.
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Old 14 October 2019, 05:26   #27
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But that link it was "Beige" ugh... BLACK its the new Beige... LoLz
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Old 14 October 2019, 05:58   #28
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I can understand why the brand owners would be reluctant to license use for a generic PC keyboard and mouse with no relevance to their brand other than a colour scheme where that same keyboard/mouse is to use multiple brands. It could be seen as devaluing each brand.

The Sinclair/ZX Spectrum keyboards are iconic, the early ones for their basic tokens and other characters and function names on and around the keys until the later plain Amstrad designs.

As for Amstrad, I had no experience of them as a kid so I have no particular nostalgia for the CPC 464 colour scheme.

I don't associate mice with the ZX Spectrum or Amstrad CPCs.

As for Acorn, to me my experiences were of the BBC/Master System and Electron rather than the green function keys (specific to the A3010?)

If I was to get a retro keyboard it would be Amiga influenced and with the exception of the help key and variations on the numeric pad (A1000 had no operator keys on numpad and A600 had no numpad at all so a couple of '(' ')' keys are no big deal) the Amiga keyboard is basically a subset of the modern PC keyboard.

If I was you I'd try to get a licence to a single brand and concentrate on that specifically the Amiga name (you could maybe offer a bundle with a Raspberry Pi in a nice case with Amiga emulation pre-installed).
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Old 14 October 2019, 08:59   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hUMUNGUs View Post
Minuous: then dont buy one. Show some respect for anyone making "new" stuff for the Amiga.
.... it's for PC
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Old 14 October 2019, 15:04   #30
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Hey, I like your project - it's cool. I think it will work way better than a generic PC keyboard. Definitely nicer than stickers

As for all the moaning about the HELP key, that's no worries as the mmkeyboard project on aminet includes source and can easily remap any keys however we like (and already remaps 'Insert' to 'Help'. Since it will need to got through a PS/2-> Amiga adapter anyway it's not a big deal.

From the docs:
Code:
 

  Key          Amiga result
----------------------------
Home         Shift Cursor Left
End          Shift Cursor Right
Page_Up      Shift Cursor Up
Page_Down    Shift Cursor Down
PopUp        Left Amiga m (Screen flip)
PrintScr     Right Amiga p
Break        Control c
Insert       Help
F11          MultiMedia Extension Hotkey
F12          MultiMedia Extension Hotkey
ScrLock      MultiMedia Extension Hotkey
Left Win     Left Amiga
Right Win    Right Amiga
Maybe you'd like to customise the printing on those keys?

Last edited by dalek; 14 October 2019 at 15:10.
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Old 19 October 2019, 15:58   #31
simulant
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dalek View Post
Hey, I like your project - it's cool. I think it will work way better than a generic PC keyboard. Definitely nicer than stickers

As for all the moaning about the HELP key, that's no worries as the mmkeyboard project on aminet includes source and can easily remap any keys however we like (and already remaps 'Insert' to 'Help'. Since it will need to got through a PS/2-> Amiga adapter anyway it's not a big deal.

From the docs:
Code:
 

  Key          Amiga result
----------------------------
Home         Shift Cursor Left
End          Shift Cursor Right
Page_Up      Shift Cursor Up
Page_Down    Shift Cursor Down
PopUp        Left Amiga m (Screen flip)
PrintScr     Right Amiga p
Break        Control c
Insert       Help
F11          MultiMedia Extension Hotkey
F12          MultiMedia Extension Hotkey
ScrLock      MultiMedia Extension Hotkey
Left Win     Left Amiga
Right Win    Right Amiga
Maybe you'd like to customise the printing on those keys?

Great thanks also for your support. Due to feedback I am going to move over to Kickstarter as the community seem to trust it more...


That's great in terms of the key mappings, thanks for helping the project. I'd be open to adding to the keycaps so we had your above extras added to the layout print graphics if helps users more
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Old 30 October 2019, 00:36   #32
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Hi just an update:

Due to community feedback I have moved the project over to Kickstarter.com instead of IndieGoGo - backers on Kickstarter automatically receive a full refund if the project doesn't reach funding which I prefer for better peace of mind.

Here is the updated campaign link: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects...ce-by-simulant
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Old 30 October 2019, 04:29   #33
005AGIMA
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I like where this has gone. The product description on the kickstarter of "Retro Computer inspired USB PC Keyboards & Mice" is exactly what I was going to suggest when reading through this thread.

A much better product description, and a project I think that has it's place.
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Old 30 October 2019, 16:17   #34
simulant
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Thank you so much for the kind comment and feedback. It means a lot as I don't want to upset any retro computer communities. The idea was to offer something that isn't already available and hopefully I will be doing that even if it isn't for everyone
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Old 30 October 2019, 16:47   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 005agima View Post
[...] a much better product description, and a project i think that has it's place.
+1
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Old 30 October 2019, 16:50   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 005AGIMA View Post
I like where this has gone. The product description on the kickstarter of "Retro Computer inspired USB PC Keyboards & Mice" is exactly what I was going to suggest when reading through this thread.

A much better product description, and a project I think that has it's place.
Quote:
Originally Posted by malko View Post
+1
Agreed, thread title updated accordingly
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Old 30 October 2019, 17:16   #37
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Agreed, thread title updated accordingly

Thank you!
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Old 04 November 2019, 11:07   #38
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Good luck with this Simulant. I agree with others though, dont stick the Amiga logo on it as its not. I would rather see your name on it! Im sure the CD32 one will sell a bucketload!
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Old 05 November 2019, 12:37   #39
simulant
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Good luck with this Simulant. I agree with others though, dont stick the Amiga logo on it as its not. I would rather see your name on it! Im sure the CD32 one will sell a bucketload!

Thanks Gordon for the feedback and positive vibes. I am happy to remove the logo or take a vote/feedback during the campaign about that. I've attached the proposed logo which I originally did to make it clear that these aren't actual Amiga products but rather "for" or to match them. So my own logo is in there. Currently the Amstrad and Sinclair designs have no branding at all so the Amiga could go down this route if the community preferred it or have my logo instead.


Yes the CD32 style ones for me are really exciting. I've never been able to afford a CDTV or genuine CD32 keyboard or mouse so this would just be nice to compliment it hopefully for me and other users.



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