25 December 2016, 16:05 | #1 |
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AGA first or OCS/ECS?
Hi all and Merry Christmas!
I'm brand new to Amiga coding and have just about managed to do a simple system takeover ( https://1drv.ms/u/s!AipiGCTl1HL_g4Mzga3k3DRLQXGJZg ) but, eventually anyway, I want to do some simple AGA demos. Nothing major, parallax stars, simple scroller, that kinda thing. Anyway, should I dive straight into AGA or stick to the much more documented OCS/ECS modes whilst I'm learning? I've got the recommended hardware reference material and books and the autodocs etc Is going from OCS to AGA pretty straight forward or is it recommended to just go straight to AGA? |
25 December 2016, 17:00 | #2 |
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Going from ECS to AGA is straightforward. Audio and blitter didn't change between them. All AGA adds is big sprites, more palette registers, fast Copper when the display is inactive, color bank switching for sprites and dual playfield mode, faster video fetching, and guaranteed access to Kickstart version 3.
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25 December 2016, 17:15 | #3 |
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OK, cool, thanks.
So 99% of things I'm hoping to learn from ECS will translate over to AGA? EDIT: Ignore that, you've clearly answered it above lol Last edited by Spec-Chum; 25 December 2016 at 17:35. |
26 December 2016, 14:57 | #4 | |
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26 December 2016, 17:11 | #5 |
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26 December 2016, 21:06 | #6 | |
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* using the copper, that is... but I've never seen a copper chunky effect using the cpu to write to the color regs. |
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26 December 2016, 21:14 | #7 |
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Another quick question, although I suspect the answer is subjective.
Both the "HowToCode7" guide and "Mapping the Amiga" book state (paraphrase) "Do NOT poke registers on AGA, use the OS routines". The HTC7 guide even goes so far as to say code using OS will be 20 times (?) faster due to no wait-states in the ROM code. So, if I intend to code an (albeit simple) AGA demo, should I do it "by the book" with OS calls or "hit the metal"? I'll be using asm if that makes any difference, but I am competent in C too... |
26 December 2016, 21:18 | #8 | |
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26 December 2016, 21:21 | #9 |
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Copper didn't get any updates in AGA.
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26 December 2016, 21:31 | #10 | ||
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On AGA you get approx. 57 color changes per line (a bit less, because you need to write to bplcon3 also), so you can e.g. change ~110 colors in two scanlines, giving you a 3x2 copper chunky. I've never seen something better than fullscreen 3x2 copper chunky, could you give an example of such an effect or game? On OCS, using 4bpl mode and sprites, you could do 4x1 with ~55 or so pixels per line. Less usefull indeed, but that's not because of the copper speed - you just have less color registers. Quote:
EDIT: Tony beat me. |
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26 December 2016, 21:37 | #11 | |
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1) Contrary to ECS, Commodore never officially documented the chipset, so they could change all AGA registers in any new revision (and probably would have done so). As there will be no new Amiga chipsets, that reason is not valid anymore. 2) If chipram bandwidth is low, ROM functions are indeed faster, but if your screenmode leaves enough room for the cpu (and on AGA that's at lower resolutions mostly the case) that argument is also void. So, I'd say it comes down to your personal preferences. |
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27 December 2016, 00:24 | #12 | |
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PS this makes me sad: "As there will be no new Amiga chipsets, that reason is not valid anymore." |
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27 December 2016, 10:28 | #13 |
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Even if new Amiga chipsets were to come out now, the reason would still be invalid - as changing the chipset would now break many programs.
About ROM functions being faster, it's just plain wrong regardless of the screen mode when the code is located in fastmem (true fastmem, that is). Actually, quite the opposite in many cases - ROM code can really be slower. That said, there are still valid reasons why to use the OS. The program can then multitask happily and not use 100% cpu permanently, screen grabs can be made using the relevant software and you can hit the disk without much care. Personnally I would recommend using the OS for screen handling and keyboard+mouse input management, but hit the screen's memory buffer directly. |
29 December 2016, 11:07 | #14 | |
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Anyway this is trivia in the age of the SuperAGA core that does actual chunky modes on the Vampire board and UAEGfx on the emulator settings. |
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29 December 2016, 11:28 | #15 | |
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As said, I'd be highly interested if you'd prove me wrong, because this would open a lot of new possibilities, but I've never seen any hint that something like you describes exists. |
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29 December 2016, 12:35 | #16 | |
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29 December 2016, 13:05 | #17 | |
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29 December 2016, 15:14 | #18 |
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With Aga we have more cycles per line, not faster copper, so we can have more instructions per line.
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29 December 2016, 16:46 | #19 |
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There aren't more cycles per line. AGA owes its bandwidth to 32-bit and double CAS memory accesses - and this is for display dma only (though cpu can also do 32-bit).
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