An open letter to homebrewers

[Fred the Fop]

To all homebrewers of games for GBA, NES, Jaguar, MSX, Amiga, Atari St, Mac, PC, Acorn, Speccy, etc.
If you make original games, with imagination, thank you.

[DrBong]

I'm with you Freddy....many thanks to those who continue to pump out original games and utilities for the so-called "dead" platforms!

[TikTok]

Hmm, when I read the title of this thread I didn't think Fred was talking about games...

[Fred the Fop]

Originally Posted by DrBong

I'm with you Freddy....many thanks to those who continue to pump out original games and utilities for the so-called "dead" platforms!

Sure thing pal. I mean, did you see http://www.grandtheftendo.com/

As long as it's not one of those dull tetris or snake (who the hell needs another snake game???) brews, I think it's wonderful.

Originally Posted by TikTok

Hmm, when I read the title of this thread I didn't think Fred was talking about games...

Tikkky, maybe you think I was discussing beers?

[Unknown_K]

Homebrew sounds like beer making to me.

Anyway the people with decent knowledge of the platforms listed have mostly quit devekoping for them, leaving a few part time hobbyists to play with them. Besides a few ports noting new (worth playing) is going to be made.

[DrBong]

@Unknown_K
I don't think even the current situation is as bleak as that. With retrogaming being recognised as a growing interest among computer users with the emergence of publications like Retrogamer, I think bedroom programmers from the past may be tempted to code new games. At the very least, it may entice them to dig up old creations and release them to the public domain. The other side of the coin is that young coders who missed the older computers first time round may choose to hone their skills by attempting a small retro project rather than some gigantic 3D FPS on a modern PC I guess only time will tell, though........

[Unknown_K]

Finished complete playable games require both artists and programmers working as a team. The bedroom coder can probably make some nice demo's or cool graphics but for a complete game they don't have the time and resources to spend on the project (look at how many companies that make nothing but games and have the resources needed release shit you never wanted to play).

Most retrogamers I have seen just use an emulater and "roms" you dounload on the net for free. These people don't bother with anything non commercial (unless its a hack of a comercial game ported to their system) because they have an almost unlimited supply of free games. The culture has changed so that creating content is not as good as being able to rip somebodu elses content. The world is breeding consumers not inventors.

[CodyJarrett]

The potential is there for an international team of developers collaborating via the Internet on exciting Amiga games if the usual project problems can be overcome; initial excitement leading to disinterest, underestimation of the work required, team splits, real life etc.

A good strategy would be to concentrate on more minor goals such as small, but polished Amiga-esque games rather than trying to copy grand 3D titles (which results in inferior Amiga games or direct copies of games we've already played on the PC years ago). I've played many simple freeware Amiga games more than a lot of commercial titles.

[Adeptus]

Fred your link is broken... you've switched the display text with the URL...
Once I found the site, it looks pretty cool!

[StrategyGamer]

Originally Posted by Unknown_K

Homebrew sounds like beer making to me.

Anyway the people with decent knowledge of the platforms listed have mostly quit devekoping for them, leaving a few part time hobbyists to play with them. Besides a few ports noting new (worth playing) is going to be made.

I strongly disagree with your last sentence sir.

Total Chaos AGA isn't a port of anything AND it is worth playing AND it is the best turn based strategy game ever conceived by the human mind AND its an Amiga Original game that does not exist for any other platform AND it is produced by 100% Amiga sceners using top-secret Homebrew(tm) technology AND the current version was recognized as being better than anything the PC currently has to offer in a recent issue of Retro-Gamer Magazine.

Being a homebrew Amiga Sceners game actually allows it to be Above and Beyond Commercial Quality.

[Unknown_K]

I guess Retro-Gamer would know, they must have asked a dozen people about the best turn based strategy game.

[DrBong]

Originally Posted by Unknown_K

Finished complete playable games require both artists and programmers working as a team. The bedroom coder can probably make some nice demo's or cool graphics but for a complete game they don't have the time and resources to spend on the project (look at how many companies that make nothing but games and have the resources needed release shit you never wanted to play).

That's a mindset that's more common amongst modern day coders, which is justifiable when you consider the large, mostly 3D games that are undertaken for today's platforms. However, we're talking here about small, homebrew projects for retro platforms like C64, Amiga, SNES etc. Quite a few games (even on more expansive retro platforms like the Amiga and Atari ST) were coded by just one or two guys working out of their bedrooms or garage/shed. A lot of past demo coders actually went on to become full-fledged commercial games coders. Without the exposure the commercial software houses may have never shown any interest in them. Talented guys like ZZKJ actually coded pretty much 100% of their games, even in the latter days of Amiga despite software houses preferring team projects so they could make bigger games and/or get games out the door quicker. Having said all this, even now with the lack of time people generally have, the success of homebrew projects may be more likely if teams undertake them in their spare time. As Cody said, good organisation and the net will probably go a long way to circumventing some of the difficulties that teams may have had in the past (e.g. proximity, limited team sizes, disinterest etc.).

Most retrogamers I have seen just use an emulater and "roms" you dounload on the net for free. These people don't bother with anything non commercial (unless its a hack of a comercial game ported to their system) because they have an almost unlimited supply of free games. The culture has changed so that creating content is not as good as being able to rip somebodu elses content. The world is breeding consumers not inventors.

More true of retrogamers that are too young to have experienced the machines, games or times associated with the heydey of retro platforms. This is where forums like EAB are instrumental in "educating" or "giving exposure" to non-commercial retro games. Retrogamers who aren't completely lazy and are a little bit curious tend to stumble across forums like EAB and find out about the cool homebrew games (new and old) that are available. Obviously magazines like Retro-Gamer have a greater impact when they publish articles about homebrew games with URLs or whack them on their coverCD together with emulators for readers to try out.

I guess the other thing to consider is that Europe in particular has always been a greater breeding ground for retro coders than the USA or other places. For instance, the demo scene has never been all that big in the USA from what I've been told, yet the demo scene has always been large and vibrant in Europe for current and retro machines. Your views are probably more reflective of the retro scene in your side of the world.

[Unknown_K]

Sure talented individuals with drive who coded for the fun of it while the Amiga was in its prime could put out decent material. The thing is younger people from my perspective do not invest the time to do proper coding on older platforms, while the people who had knowledge of them are now much older with families and don't have the time. The homebrew stuff I see are console related (porting games to the dreamcast as an example). There are exceptions to everything and I am sure a few decent games will come out now and then.

Another thing is when I grew up computers were new and cool so people liked to try coding (I made some stuff for my Timex 2068). These days with the dotcom implosion and outsourcing kids are steered away from programming in general, its not cool anymore.

[andreas]

Originally Posted by Fred the Duck

To all homebrewers of games for GBA, NES, Jaguar, MSX, Amiga, Atari St, Mac, PC, Acorn, Speccy, etc.
If you make original games, with imagination, thank you.

Hey! What's up with you? Hiding the C64 behind the 'etc', how dare ya!
(but not forgetting to mention the ... uh ... Spectrum, heh )

Just to say that much: Pinball Dreams C64 is in the works!
(registration required to read the article )

[Graham Humphrey]

Originally Posted by Unknown_K

Sure talented individuals with drive who coded for the fun of it while the Amiga was in its prime could put out decent material. The thing is younger people from my perspective do not invest the time to do proper coding on older platforms, while the people who had knowledge of them are now much older with families and don't have the time. The homebrew stuff I see are console related (porting games to the dreamcast as an example). There are exceptions to everything and I am sure a few decent games will come out now and then.

Another thing is when I grew up computers were new and cool so people liked to try coding (I made some stuff for my Timex 2068). These days with the dotcom implosion and outsourcing kids are steered away from programming in general, its not cool anymore.

Well I'm young and I'm learning to program the Amiga! Working on a horizontal-scrolling shoot-em-up at the moment.

But then I guess I'm an exception sadly.

There certainly seems to be a busier C64/Spectrum scene in comparison doesn't there?

[kriz]

Graham: Great, keep the spirit! What are you programming in ?

I think new commercial amiga cames will get released in the future also, not many but some I believe (Cool games ofcoz )

[Graham Humphrey]

Originally Posted by kriz

Graham: Great, keep the spirit! What are you programming in ?

I think new commercial amiga cames will get released in the future also, not many but some I believe (Cool games ofcoz )

I'm programming in Blitz Basic 2.1, with the Blitz Support Suite.

Do you have any info on the commercial games? Sounds interesting!

[DrBong]

Originally Posted by Unknown_K

The thing is younger people from my perspective do not invest the time to do proper coding on older platforms, while the people who had knowledge of them are now much older with families and don't have the time. The homebrew stuff I see are console related (porting games to the dreamcast as an example). There are exceptions to everything and I am sure a few decent games will come out now and then.

Another thing is when I grew up computers were new and cool so people liked to try coding (I made some stuff for my Timex 2068). These days with the dotcom implosion and outsourcing kids are steered away from programming in general, its not cool anymore.

I don't disagree with your comments. Younger people today seem to be more interested in tinkering with the hardware side of things (e.g. overclocking CPUs etc.) than coding, if they even bother to try and look under the hood as it were. However, I still think that homebrew retro coders will always be produced in significant numbers in European countries as opposed to anywhere else. I'm not sure why that is. Perhaps the cold weather is more conducive to it, or they have a more morbid fascination with discovering the inner workings of computers via coding. Dunno....not really sure. I just hope they continue to produce homebrew games and utilities in force!

@GrahamHumphrey
Great to see young guys like you motivated to code for the retro platforms....even if it only ends up being for your own enjoyment!


What an interesting thread this is turning out to be.

[Fred the Fop]

Originally Posted by andreas

Hey! What's up with you? Hiding the C64 behind the 'etc', how dare ya!
(but not forgetting to mention the ... uh ... Spectrum, heh )

Just to say that much: Pinball Dreams C64 is in the works!
(registration required to read the article )

Oh I venerate the C=64 more than any 8 bit computer. Here in the USA, mention the Atari ST or Amiga and most of the time people near my age don't know. Mention a Amstrad or Speccy and 99.9% of people my age and younger won't know what you are talking about. But mention a C=64, and lot's of people smile.