Amiga games on 5 and a 1/4 inch disks?

Codetapper · 03 July 2004, 13:05

While I was in Melbourne earlier this year I met someone that said they had a huge collection of Amiga games in the late 80s and loved them more than todays games. After a bit of chatting I was getting a little confused as this person insisted they played all their games on 5 and a quarter inch disks! They claimed to have games like Rainbow Islands and Shinobi which took up 3 disks!

By that point I was sure they were thinking of a Commodore 64 or some other computer and also took everything else they said with a grain of salt.

But just in case - does anyone know for sure if this is possible? Did any Amiga ever come out with the old style floppy disks? And if they did, how did you get software onto them? I haven't heard of X-Copy being able to transfer from 3.5" disks to 5.25" disks!

Jope · 03 July 2004, 13:59

There are 5.25" drives for the Amiga.. 440 and 880kB in size.. The Master-5A and some RocTec model comes to mind. (both external)

Not very common and certainly no software was ever released on 5.25" disks.

At least Rainbow Islands only takes up one 880kB disk, be it 5.25" or 3.5".

In basic, all shugart drives are addressed the same, so you can connect a 5.25" mechanism to an Amiga and just start talking to it. It may be, that you need to modify the drive a bit to have ready on pin 34.. There's no diskchange sensor in 5.25" mechanisms.

dirkies · 03 July 2004, 15:29

all my buddies I knew used 5.25" floppies because they were dead cheap. The drives were not commodore but white-label ones. They worked fine! I still have 2 drives like this, they are identical for the Amiga as 3.5", as much data as the normal ones, no need for tweaks etc.

Codetapper · 03 July 2004, 16:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirkies

all my buddies I knew used 5.25" floppies because they were dead cheap. The drives were not commodore but white-label ones. They worked fine! I still have 2 drives like this, they are identical for the Amiga as 3.5", as much data as the normal ones, no need for tweaks etc.

How did you copy software onto the disks, or were they only used as data disks? I would imagine the floppy controller would be different on those drives thus needing different delays for head stepping etc. I could imagine storing single file games on the disk no problem, but multiload games like Rainbow Islands?

dirkies · 03 July 2004, 16:17

just use the same soft as for 3.5", for the amiga it didn't make any difference. And with a bootswitch you could boot from the 5.25" like it was a 3.5"

really, the functional use was IDENTICAL to the 3.5", 880KB, upto 83 tracks etc

copy a disk from 3.5" to 5.25" and back didn't alter anything, and multi-disk games just played fine as usual. I never encountered a disk which would not work if run on such a 5.25" drive. It was a huge money saver, esp. with guys like me having thousands of floppies

this should not be confused with the A1020 or whatever the C= Amiga 5.25" drive was called to be used for PC usage (360KB) or something like that.

uno · 03 July 2004, 20:41

Yeah, right, thousands of 5.25 floppies... just like me

This drive saved me ALOT of money...

03 July 2004, 21:07

Yes I have a drive and few dozens of 5.25" floppies and amige programs on them. I think the disks are 880k as usual but I'll never use this kind of hardware, not even for testing

Amiga1992 · 03 July 2004, 22:08

Heh I'm very interested in this! Anybody has an extra drive to part with? :P

Did you use normal 2S2D disks?

Unknown_K · 03 July 2004, 23:01

Its possible, I used to format 360k disks on the PC to 800k reliably with a special program because they were cheaper then 720k 3.5" disks at the time. So if a PC drive can read 800k on a 360k 5.25" disk an amiga should be able to read a bit more.

Still I never seen or heard of a 5.25" drive on an Amiga besides the 360k (or in my machine 1.2mb) 5.25" used with PC emulater cards in the A2000's

04 July 2004, 05:33

No idea how "normal" 5.25 drive or disk can be. I always hated 5.25s

7-Zark-7 · 04 July 2004, 08:24

How quick were these 5 & 1/4" disks loading-wise compared to the bog standard Amiga drives,out of interest?

Jope · 04 July 2004, 11:47

Zark, identical. The modern 5.25" mechanisms behave just like 3.5" mechanisms.. Just like I said before, they're talked to in the same way.

If you're thinking of "slow floppies" and the c-64, the slowness is not because of the format, but because of the crap protocol between the drive and the computer.

Codetapper · 04 July 2004, 22:35

Can someone please explain how you copied a game from 3.5" disks to 5.25"? Did the copier programs just see the 5.25" drive as a DF1: and copy from DF0: to DF1:?

dirkies · 04 July 2004, 22:59

yes codetapper, it was transparent to the OS
Use XCopy, White Lightning, Rattlecopy, Marauder, A-Copy or whatever, they all worked fine since there was no reason not to

and they were as fast as their 3.5" counterpart, I never noticed a speed difference. They were more silent though!

dirkies · 04 July 2004, 23:03

If I find one of these drives back in my cave I'm willing to give it away, but you pay postage... and from Luxembourg to Argentina I guess it would cost more to send than the price of a new drive!

03 July 2004, 13:05	#1
Codetapper 2 contact me: email only! Join Date: May 2001 Location: Auckland / New Zealand Posts: 3,182	Amiga games on 5 and a 1/4 inch disks? While I was in Melbourne earlier this year I met someone that said they had a huge collection of Amiga games in the late 80s and loved them more than todays games. After a bit of chatting I was getting a little confused as this person insisted they played all their games on 5 and a quarter inch disks! They claimed to have games like Rainbow Islands and Shinobi which took up 3 disks! By that point I was sure they were thinking of a Commodore 64 or some other computer and also took everything else they said with a grain of salt. But just in case - does anyone know for sure if this is possible? Did any Amiga ever come out with the old style floppy disks? And if they did, how did you get software onto them? I haven't heard of X-Copy being able to transfer from 3.5" disks to 5.25" disks!

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03 July 2004, 13:59	#2
Jope - Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Helsinki / Finland Age: 43 Posts: 9,861	There are 5.25" drives for the Amiga.. 440 and 880kB in size.. The Master-5A and some RocTec model comes to mind. (both external) Not very common and certainly no software was ever released on 5.25" disks. At least Rainbow Islands only takes up one 880kB disk, be it 5.25" or 3.5". In basic, all shugart drives are addressed the same, so you can connect a 5.25" mechanism to an Amiga and just start talking to it. It may be, that you need to modify the drive a bit to have ready on pin 34.. There's no diskchange sensor in 5.25" mechanisms.

03 July 2004, 15:29	#3
dirkies Zone Friend Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Belgium Age: 51 Posts: 1,296	all my buddies I knew used 5.25" floppies because they were dead cheap. The drives were not commodore but white-label ones. They worked fine! I still have 2 drives like this, they are identical for the Amiga as 3.5", as much data as the normal ones, no need for tweaks etc.

03 July 2004, 16:17	#5
dirkies Zone Friend Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Belgium Age: 51 Posts: 1,296	just use the same soft as for 3.5", for the amiga it didn't make any difference. And with a bootswitch you could boot from the 5.25" like it was a 3.5" really, the functional use was IDENTICAL to the 3.5", 880KB, upto 83 tracks etc copy a disk from 3.5" to 5.25" and back didn't alter anything, and multi-disk games just played fine as usual. I never encountered a disk which would not work if run on such a 5.25" drive. It was a huge money saver, esp. with guys like me having thousands of floppies this should not be confused with the A1020 or whatever the C= Amiga 5.25" drive was called to be used for PC usage (360KB) or something like that.

03 July 2004, 20:41	#6
uno Zone Friend Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Germany Posts: 40	Yeah, right, thousands of 5.25 floppies... just like me This drive saved me ALOT of money...

03 July 2004, 21:07	#7
oldpx Posts: n/a	Yes I have a drive and few dozens of 5.25" floppies and amige programs on them. I think the disks are 880k as usual but I'll never use this kind of hardware, not even for testing

03 July 2004, 22:08	#8
Amiga1992 Registered User Join Date: May 2001 Location: ? Posts: 19,645	Heh I'm very interested in this! Anybody has an extra drive to part with? :P Did you use normal 2S2D disks?

03 July 2004, 23:01	#9
Unknown_K Registered User Join Date: May 2002 Location: Ohio/USA Age: 55 Posts: 1,380	Its possible, I used to format 360k disks on the PC to 800k reliably with a special program because they were cheaper then 720k 3.5" disks at the time. So if a PC drive can read 800k on a 360k 5.25" disk an amiga should be able to read a bit more. Still I never seen or heard of a 5.25" drive on an Amiga besides the 360k (or in my machine 1.2mb) 5.25" used with PC emulater cards in the A2000's

04 July 2004, 05:33	#10
oldpx Posts: n/a	No idea how "normal" 5.25 drive or disk can be. I always hated 5.25s

04 July 2004, 08:24	#11
7-Zark-7 Zone Friend Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Brisbane/Australia Posts: 1,270	How quick were these 5 & 1/4" disks loading-wise compared to the bog standard Amiga drives,out of interest?

04 July 2004, 11:47	#12
Jope - Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Helsinki / Finland Age: 43 Posts: 9,861	Zark, identical. The modern 5.25" mechanisms behave just like 3.5" mechanisms.. Just like I said before, they're talked to in the same way. If you're thinking of "slow floppies" and the c-64, the slowness is not because of the format, but because of the crap protocol between the drive and the computer.

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04 July 2004, 22:35	#13
Codetapper 2 contact me: email only! Join Date: May 2001 Location: Auckland / New Zealand Posts: 3,182	Can someone please explain how you copied a game from 3.5" disks to 5.25"? Did the copier programs just see the 5.25" drive as a DF1: and copy from DF0: to DF1:?

04 July 2004, 22:59	#14
dirkies Zone Friend Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Belgium Age: 51 Posts: 1,296	yes codetapper, it was transparent to the OS Use XCopy, White Lightning, Rattlecopy, Marauder, A-Copy or whatever, they all worked fine since there was no reason not to and they were as fast as their 3.5" counterpart, I never noticed a speed difference. They were more silent though!

04 July 2004, 23:03	#15
dirkies Zone Friend Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Belgium Age: 51 Posts: 1,296	If I find one of these drives back in my cave I'm willing to give it away, but you pay postage... and from Luxembourg to Argentina I guess it would cost more to send than the price of a new drive!