Things the Amiga could do better than a contemporary PC

[Foebane]

Originally Posted by grond

Ultima Underworld.

Heard of it, sounds incredibly boring.

[malko]

A good game if you like dungeon crawler style

[Weaselrama]

Originally Posted by Foebane

Sorry, but who would migrate from Amiga to PC in 1992? There was just no reason to do so. I actually migrated from A500 to A1200 the following year, and that lasted over a year!

What was the PC "killer app" in 1992? Wing Commander? Crap. Wolf 3D? Crap. So, nothing I can think of.

Who said migrate? I meant consumers wouldn't start buying PCs en masse until after 1992 and the market really didn't explode until 1995 with the packaged 486 SX machines, a point I made over and over to V. Nope, I kept my Amiga working although I did buy a 386 DX in 1993 which ran the PC version of Geoworks and I got a copy of Windows 3.1 to check out the hullabaloo. I kept my 1000 working until around 2002. I got on the Internet in 1994 with a UNIX shell account and I installed Slackware Linux in 1996 on one of those packaged 486 SX machines that ran Windows 95. That was the machine I played first played Wolfenstein and then Doom on. I installed Slackware Linux on that machine in a small partition before I got a better machine.

I don't want to go over ground I went over with V one too many times...in the early 90s the machine (really, I just wanted the OS) I really wanted but could never afford was the NeXT cube.

[Rotareneg]

Originally Posted by Foebane

Heard of it, sounds incredibly boring.

I see... "Wasn't on the Amiga? CRAP!" Nice mature attitude there...

[grond]

Originally Posted by Foebane

Heard of it, sounds incredibly boring.

Well, perhaps your taste of games is different from that of the average Joe User.

[Amiga1992]

Originally Posted by Weaselrama

Well, I hope you at least liked the plug I gave your magnificent PT-1210 Protracker-compatible digital turntable.

I see no such thing (I went back all the pages and saw nothing ) but this thread still was dead on arrival.

As someone who is trying to make software for Amiga today, to be used today, the constant comparison to other platforms past, current or future, is just damaging. But seems like most Amiga users enjoy this kind of stuff.

The best computer that ever existed was the one you had at home, whatever that was. "Platform wars" were fueled by people's inferiority complex which pushed them to promote their computer of choice as gospel.
You know, probably in most cases, it was a huge effort to get a home computer. You would treasure that thing like the most important thing in the world. How dare anyone question its capacity?

Yes, I did engage in those, we all did. However now we're old enough that we should be wiser and be able to reflect. Seems like a lot of people, never got over this. Hence threads like this popping up over and over again.

[sandruzzo]

Thats' incredible: after 30 year we're still here: pc vs Amiga. I would says that before 1990 or near that, Pc, as multimedia machine was a joke. Music: bip, bip, gfx: what?, and OS allmost inexistent. But year after year, Pc World was able to evolve and gave birth a very powerfull Machines: cheaper Hardware and faster! Amiga?Nothig.

If only Commore came out with Aga some years before with small changes(Paual 8 voices, blitter and copper 32bit 14 mhz, and one cicles access memory to all devices..)

[grond]

Originally Posted by Akira

this thread still was dead on arrival.

...

The best computer that ever existed was the one you had at home, whatever that was. "Platform wars" were fueled by people's inferiority complex which pushed them to promote their computer of choice as gospel.

...

However now we're old enough that we should be wiser and be able to reflect. Seems like a lot of people, never got over this. Hence threads like this popping up over and over again.

Since I started this threat I feel I have to respond to this. The reason why I started this thread was because I was looking for a collection of things that the Amiga, despite it was only made from silicon and metal like all other computers, could actually do better than the PC of the time that had modularity and an almost infinite amount of development budget on its side while the Amiga had the more innovative concepts but only comparatively modest technology available. This is a technical subject and not one where emotions of any sort need to come into play. While the discussion has gone off-topic in many places, quite a few technical aspects were mentioned that were either unique to the Amiga or had been cleverly chosen and combined from the many preexisting options.

[Rotareneg]

Originally Posted by grond

Since I started this threat I feel I have to respond to this. The reason why I started this thread was because I was looking for a collection of things that the Amiga, despite it was only made from silicon and metal like all other computers, could actually do better than the PC of the time that had modularity and an almost infinite amount of development budget on its side while the Amiga had the more innovative concepts but only comparatively modest technology available. This is a technical subject and not one where emotions of any sort need to come into play. While the discussion has gone off-topic in many places, quite a few technical aspects were mentioned that were either unique to the Amiga or had been cleverly chosen and combined from the many preexisting options.

It's almost as if the thread got massively derailed by a troll at some point.

[Amiga1992]

Originally Posted by grond

I was looking for a collection of things that the Amiga, despite it was only made from silicon and metal like all other computers, could actually do better than the PC of the time
[...]
This is a technical subject and not one where emotions of any sort need to come into play.

You're not gonna find that objective, unemotional answer here mate. This is why I said this thread was dead on arrival.
I mean even if you did find some stuff like that, look what happened.

[Weaselrama]

Originally Posted by Akira

You're not gonna find that objective, unemotional answer here mate. This is why I said this thread was dead on arrival.
I mean even if you did find some stuff like that, look what happened.

That was our fault? Nope. Grond started an interesting thread, a topic that fit nicely under "Nostalgia and Memories" and an Interloper came along *who at first seemed like someone intelligent enough with whom to have a dialogue.* Post after post he revealed his agenda as being rabidly anti-Amiga and then tried to redact history trying to prove a x286 PC made between 1985 and 1990 was "better" and deserved the defintion of a multimedia computer more so than the Amiga, and was faster, better, etc. but utterly failed to provide the specs on a x286 build that with cards, peripherals, and software could do what the Amiga could do and do very well. Regardless, he's not alone in that belief system and ideology.

He was banned, not because he broke the rules but because he was rude and insulting. None of this unfolded in a single post.

Why did we engage him? To "feed the troll?" No. Redacting history is dangerous and has the potential to influence a younger crowd of computer enthusiasts who might very well begin to spread his propaganda around and in fact, already do. Could enough people with an agenda re-write the legacy of the Amiga? Of course they could. In the US, people with an agenda have re-written the legacy of the Founding Fathers, a group of agnostics and Deists who wrote the US Constitution with no mention of God, and have successfully taught 2 generations of children that the Founding Fathers were "men of faith" who created the US as a "Christian Nation" and that the concept of Separation of Church and State is a myth, all for the express purpose of gaining political power in order to legislate their religious creed upon the heads of Americans.

So we ran him off and have returned to topic. In one post, I plugged your outstanding work on the PT-1210MK1 as example of how the Amiga lives on and why Mods still have a place in the world of digital music.

[Foebane]

Originally Posted by Rotareneg

I see... "Wasn't on the Amiga? CRAP!" Nice mature attitude there...

It's not because it wasn't on Amiga, but there were other similar games that were on Amiga, like Eye of the Beholder. I'm just saying, for me personally, it's not a game I would fork out for a PC for.

Originally Posted by grond

Well, perhaps your taste of games is different from that of the average Joe User.

Yes, I've always personally adored FPS games above all other genres.

I'm not trying to start a platform war, but in my honest opinion, UU, Wing Commander and Wolf 3D look very underwhelming to me.

I was firmly committed to the Amiga in the early 90s because I didn't see much at all of the PC in real-life at that point, and the screenshots led me to believe that the graphical abilities of the PC were identical to that of the Amiga, sometimes inferior, although VGA made me worried, but that was mitigated by AGA coming along which I thought was similar, too.

And then I saw Second Reality, the demo, on PC, and I was annoyed that the PC was muscling in on Amiga territory - how DARE it?

But things gradually changed for me as Doom emerged and Commodore went tits up.

[Weaselrama]

...and yet here we are, with wonderful ports of Doom/Doom II, Duke Nukem, Quake, Heretic, Hexen, etc., even underwhelming Wolfenstein 3D (never liked it much either, was too maze like with no really cool rooms or areas to discover) that run great on an Amiga that supports them.

What's more, A500 owners will soon get to play a redesign of Doom called "Dread" which, if you're following the work, looks absolutely awesome. I enjoy watching the evolution of the game, especially the evolution of the weapons. Even John Carmack is following the work and has a lot of respect for "people who know how to code," a rough paraphrase of what he actually said, which was something like, "Bring me the head of John Romero on a pike!" but I digress...

[Weaselrama]

There it is, folks, from the earlier discussion. Goal reached - Word 6.0.1 running in Shapeshifter. I've already tested it and it works and does exactly what I wanted it to. Moving files back and forth between the Amiga and Shapeshifter is cake with Mac-Handler. I realize Basilisk II has superceded Shapeshifter but hey, it works and it's fast. I have no desire to play games or run other software but I might try to get TCP/IP running just to run Netscape for no other reason than, "because I can."

[Amiga1992]

Originally Posted by Weaselrama

That was our fault? Nope.

Yes, totally our fault too. We must self reflect, there's no accountability around here.

As long as this community is obsessed over trying to establish superiority over other platforms, it will attract crazies of the same type. As I said I can understand where it came from and why it happened back in the day, but to keep behaving that way after all this time, is quite toxic. Passion is confused with zealotry often.

It's perfectly fine to like the Amiga for no reason, there's no need to give any justifications to anyone. It doesn't matter if it is technically superior, inferior or anything. It doesn't matter if it ran Word or Jet Set Willy. It was a machine we had at home and grew to love for its many abilities, learned to work over its shortcomings, and for many reasons we still hold a dedication to. None of these have to do with objectivity especially today.

He was banned, not because he broke the rules but because he was rude and insulting.

Insulting people is very much breaking the forum rules. Surprised it took this long.

Redacting history is dangerous

It is, but a place where big time Amiga fans hang out is not the best place for objective history.

As I see it you engaged this unsavory person in almost the same level they brought over here, but on the opposing side. As an uninvolved third party, I could totally doubt both of the accounts given the tone.

In one post, I plugged your outstanding work on the PT-1210MK1 as example of how the Amiga lives on and why Mods still have a place in the world of digital music.

I couldn't find that, but that wouldn't matter to someone that does not want to like the Amiga. It actually doesn't matter to almost anyone, unless they have some attraction for the platform, whatever that may be.

Having a place in the world of digital music is quite a stretch, when there's like ten people really using PT-1210, there's very little new music made in such a limiting format, and it does not bring to the table any advantage over modern ways of making music or playing it at a club. A lot of people who come back to it do it because it is gimmicky, they're trying to be "different",. Others, never stopped making music that way. if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Other people may have other reasons.

We just did it because, fuck it, we like the Amiga, and we could do it. It had nothing to do with any kind of superiority complex.

[saimon69]

Originally Posted by Weaselrama

There it is, folks, from the earlier discussion. Goal reached - Word 6.0.1 running in Shapeshifter. I've already tested it and it works and does exactly what I wanted it to. Moving files back and forth between the Amiga and Shapeshifter is cake with Mac-Handler. I realize Basilisk II has superceded Shapeshifter but hey, it works and it's fast. I have no desire to play games or run other software but I might try to get TCP/IP running just to run Netscape for no other reason than, "because I can."

Best version for me was 5.1a, much lighter!

[saimon69]

Originally Posted by Akira

Having a place in the world of digital music is quite a stretch, when there's like ten people really using PT-1210, there's very little new music made in such a limiting format, and it does not bring to the table any advantage over modern ways of making music or playing it at a club. A lot of people who come back to it do it because it is gimmicky, they're trying to be "different",. Others, never stopped making music that way. if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Other people may have other reasons.

Me am essentially one trick pony, modern DAWs are memory hogs, expensive and complicated and i hardly use more than 8 channels for tunes, so Milky fit me - actually limitation breeds creativity so i like to do two and three channels tunes...

[Weaselrama]

Originally Posted by Akira

Insulting people is very much breaking the forum rules. Surprised it took this long.

That's funny, the Mod I spoke to privately told me he wasn't breaking any rules and he was only banned after a private conversation with the Mod in question.

Originally Posted by Akira

It is, but a place where big time Amiga fans hang out is not the best place for objective history.

I guess a college where big-time history fans congregate isn't the best place for objective history either. C'mon...yeah, there are a lot of fans here but there are also a lot of people who know the hell they're talking about.

Originally Posted by Akira

As I see it you engaged this unsavory person in almost the same level they brought over here, but on the opposing side. As an uninvolved third party, I could totally doubt both of the accounts given the tone.

Who cares what an "uninvolved 3rd party" thinks? I think we did a great job of making the case to any *interested* 3rd party curious about computing in the 1980s who could easily check the veracity of what we were saying. They don't have to be "uninterested," just possess moderate critical thinking skills. The man could not produce the specs for a x286 computer, cards and other peripherals, and software that could do anything like what the Amiga could do and hung his hat on a $4,000 VGA card managed solely by the CPU.

Originally Posted by Akira

I couldn't find that, but that wouldn't matter to someone that does not want to like the Amiga. It actually doesn't matter to almost anyone, unless they have some attraction for the platform, whatever that may be.

Having a place in the world of digital music is quite a stretch, when there's like ten people really using PT-1210, there's very little new music made in such a limiting format, and it does not bring to the table any advantage over modern ways of making music or playing it at a club. A lot of people who come back to it do it because it is gimmicky, they're trying to be "different",. Others, never stopped making music that way. if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Other people may have other reasons.

Well, I'm glad to know you don't buy into your own copy. "Mod kills the .mp3 Industry." That must of been an inside joke since it was a pretty cheesy line. We were just thrilled to have a more modern take on a tracker design. Someday, the book will be written on digital music in the 20th century and the Mod tracker and its approach to authoring music will likely fare pretty well.

Originally Posted by Akira

We just did it because, fuck it, we like the Amiga, and we could do it. It had nothing to do with any kind of superiority complex.

Well, you are way too superior for me. Like Mr. "V" you have an obvious need not only to be right but to be pious about it. I'll let you boys and girls have at it. I don't care for another flame war over who's more Rinso-White than the other guy over the care and feeding of trolls. We tried to pull this thread back on topic with examples of things the Amiga could do better than PCs in that 1985 - 1992 time frame, such as emulating other 68k-based operating systems and here you are, slapping us around for the thread's title and intention. Bye now.

[Amiga1992]

Originally Posted by Weaselrama

That's funny, the Mod I spoke to privately told me he wasn't breaking any rules and he was only banned after a private conversation with the Mod in question.

I guess a college where big-time history fans congregate isn't the best place for objective history either. C'mon...yeah, there are a lot of fans here but there are also a lot of people who know the hell they're talking about.

Who cares what an "uninvolved 3rd party" thinks? I think we did a great job of making the case to any *interested* 3rd party curious about computing in the 1980s who could easily check the veracity of what we were saying. They don't have to be "uninterested," just possess moderate critical thinking skills. The man could not produce the specs for a x286 computer, cards and other peripherals, and software that could do anything like what the Amiga could do and hung his hat on a $4,000 VGA card managed solely by the CPU.

Well, I'm glad to know you don't buy into your own copy. "Mod kills the .mp3 Industry." That must of been an inside joke since it was a pretty cheesy line. We were just thrilled to have a more modern take on a tracker design. Someday, the book will be written on digital music in the 20th century and the Mod tracker and its approach to authoring music will likely fare pretty well.

Well, you are way too superior for me. Like Mr. "V" you have an obvious need not only to be right but to be pious about it. I'll let you boys and girls have at it. I don't care for another flame war over who's more Rinso-White than the other guy over the care and feeding of trolls. We tried to pull this thread back on topic with examples of things the Amiga could do better than PCs in that 1985 - 1992 time frame, such as emulating other 68k-based operating systems and here you are, slapping us around for the thread's title and intention. Bye now.

Just wow

Do you realize by any chance that you are acting in the exact same way as the dude that was just given the boot? Like, very exactly it?
I was trying to have an adult conversation where I call for self reflection and critique, and you went off the handle and attacked me. Even to the point of mentioning something about my own software, which you clearly did not understand.

Yeah, bye dude o/

[Weaselrama]

Originally Posted by Akira

Just wow

Do you realize by any chance that you are acting in the exact same way as the dude that was just given the boot? Like, very exactly it?
I was trying to have an adult conversation where I call for self reflection and critique, and you went off the handle and attacked me. Even to the point of mentioning something about my own software, which you clearly did not understand.

Yeah, bye dude o/

That's funny - I honestly thought YOU were acting just like Vascillious with your holier-than-thou attitude. You attacked Grond for the thread's title and purpose and really, all of us who at least tried to debate Vascillious and defend our favorite computer in a serious manner, believing for a time one could reach his intelligence. We are, after all, an Amiga community.

I was the contributor who contacted the Mod, had a dialogue with him, and requested Vascillious be banned, not for his opinion, but for his insulting attitude toward other contributors. I didn't advertise it. He contacted me and gave me his own opinion and that he'd have a talk with Vascillious in private. I followed up with him and he gave me his reason for finally banning him. Happy?

So here you come in, in the aftermath, pointing fingers like you're above it all. You should go back and actually read what you wrote. To hear you tell it, you never even heard of the Amiga. You're not affected (or infected) by all the fanboism - you can take the Amiga or leave it which is why you would never get your hands dirty with a guy like Vascillious - which just leaves us fanboys, apparently. You never heard of the PT-1210 tracker either, like it was the result of a one-night stand and you don't want to pay child support. Good grief. I have promoted the PT-1210 tracker on other forums as a great effort and a demonstration that the Amiga is still being supported by talented coders and your attitude is "shhh, don't tell anybody about it. It'll make us sound like we take the Amiga seriously or that we're fanboys or that we even like Mods as a digital music medium and we don't want people to laugh at us." Well, don't worry, I won't make that mistake again.