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Old 29 October 2017, 22:02   #41
Rango
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Can someone make a clone of Amy-ITX board and sell it to us under different name or generic branding hence reluctancy of the ppl behind it to make it available?

This board isn't copyrighted i think correct? I mean changing CPU to 50-75Mhz once would make this board already different from copyrights. Let's do this!?

Can board be even copyrighted? Why not make this board open source if author does not want to go beyond hobby scope of making it.

It actually pisses me off as he teased all of you guys with his webpage and essentially showed you middle finger now as you're not going to get it. Someone make a clone if they're not willing to make them.

That's how things are done in real capitalism in America. Clones are made all the time with different products.

Last edited by Rango; 29 October 2017 at 22:38.
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Old 30 October 2017, 01:42   #42
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Didn't you just describe Vamipre 4 standalone product minus the itx form factor? I'm new to the scene so i'm not fully grasping all those clones yet.

I also think $500 for vampire 4 is way overpriced. Ideally it should cost <$250. Thoughts? Why is there such a distaste among "classic amiga fans" for FPGA chipsets?

What is a fair price to pay for Amiga 500 on ebay these days? Is that even worth venturing into now with Pi3 ($35) or vampire (too overpriced) being available. Let me know what you guys think?
The vampire does not have a Motorla 68060. Instead it uses a softcore cpu on the FPGA. The closest thing to what I just described would be a FPGA-Arcade with the 68060 daughterboard.
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Old 30 October 2017, 01:47   #43
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If we are going to go full emulation, then two problems with Vampire V4-Standalone in my opinion:

1. Price
2. Compatability

For under $100, I can get a Raspberry Pi3 running Amiberry/UAE4ARM that offers similar compatibility as the Vampire at nearly the same speed.

The UAE Arm versions are only getting better/faster and more compatible every day. What benefit does the standalone Vampire V4 offer above/beyond that of the Rpi3?
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Old 30 October 2017, 03:29   #44
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Originally Posted by gururise View Post
If we are going to go full emulation, then two problems with Vampire V4-Standalone in my opinion:

1. Price
2. Compatability

For under $100, I can get a Raspberry Pi3 running Amiberry/UAE4ARM that offers similar compatibility as the Vampire at nearly the same speed.

The UAE Arm versions are only getting better/faster and more compatible every day. What benefit does the standalone Vampire V4 offer above/beyond that of the Rpi3?
Good point which is why i'm asking. I'm new to this whole thing.

What about cloning AMY-ITX board and replacing the CPU chip with 50 or 75Mhz version and then we don't have to care about copyrights if there are any as i don't think there are any in first place, hobby stated. Thoughts on this?

Also what are your thoughts guys on this kit sold on a forum but i can't sing up on it as i don't know answers to the security question.

One of the questions is: "Who introduced the first Amiga model at the big show" ?

http://www.generationamiga.com/2016/...-kit-released/
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Old 30 October 2017, 12:04   #45
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Try RJ Mical or Dale Luck for the question (yes I cheated).

That Project Red A500+ board is awesome but you have the usual problem of finding a decent condition case to do it justice and the A500 case is still restrictive expansion-wise.

Most custom chips are still purchasable as old stock and I dread to think how many of them get thrown away because old boards become faulty for other reasons (old caps, faulty memory etc). If anything boards like Amy-ITX might encourage more recycling of the custom chips.

I don't really see how Amiga Classic (or next gen for the that matter) is ever going to appeal to a wider audience, the Amiga community is mostly people who owned one originally and want to keep the dream alive. For everyone else they're about as much use as a mainframe from the 1950's, you aren't going to get people today wasting their time learning to use them.
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Old 30 October 2017, 12:22   #46
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This board isn't copyrighted i think correct?
It's copyrighted unless explicitly placed in the public domain

Quote:
I mean changing CPU to 50-75Mhz once would make this board already different from copyrights.
Nope, copyright doesn't work this way

Quote:
Let's do this!?
Well, if it's that easy, why don't you start?

Quote:
Can board be even copyrighted?
Yes

Quote:
Why not make this board open source if author does not want to go beyond hobby scope of making it.
Only the author himself can open source it. And who knows, maybe he will.
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Old 30 October 2017, 12:30   #47
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For everyone else they're about as much use as a mainframe from the 1950's, you aren't going to get people today wasting their time learning to use them.
Maybe offtopic, but you might be surprised that that is actually a thing :-D

For /Fun/ i've setup and written some simple applications for both Unisys MCP and Multics this year.

So yes, old mainframe/minicomputer stuff actually has a big (more lively then Amiga) scene around it.
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Old 30 October 2017, 12:35   #48
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It's copyrighted unless explicitly placed in the public domain

Nope, copyright doesn't work this way
Copyright, or IP more likely in this case, is most likely also making the legality of the a1k A500+ and Amy questionable in the first place...
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Old 30 October 2017, 12:55   #49
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IANAL, but to me it seems the redrawn A500+ is a breach of copyright and making a new artwork based on existing schematics (Amy clone) is not.

The Amy clone naturally is a new work of art, the copyrighted to its creator(s).

I'm basing this on 100% compatible IBM clones, the court battles have been fought and the problem was the code inside the BIOS ROM chip, not the PCB artwork.
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Old 30 October 2017, 13:52   #50
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I posted back in 2013. Time has flown!

So now this board is reality and I want one
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Old 30 October 2017, 16:01   #51
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...What benefit does the standalone Vampire V4 offer above/beyond that of the Rpi3?
AMMX instructions.
Real hardware implementation of CPU and SAGA chipset (hardware runs in parallel, emulators have to try and do this in software that can lead to glitches under heavy loads or when the underlying OS is busy)

I haven't used UAE4ARM so i don't know what the graphics and audio expansion options are like but SAGA extends the Amiga chipset to allow hardware banging hi-resolution 24bit graphics and soon 16 bit audio.
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Old 30 October 2017, 16:04   #52
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...That Project Red A500+ board is awesome but you have the usual problem of finding a decent condition case to do it justice and the A500 case is still restrictive expansion-wise...
Rumour from Amiga 32 has it that the next kickstarter by the A1200.net team is for A500 cases.

There's also the Checkmate 1500+ case in early development.

Last edited by IanP; 30 October 2017 at 16:12.
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Old 30 October 2017, 16:18   #53
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That's how things are done in real capitalism in America. Clones are made all the time with different products.
You are confusing USA with China, but don't worry, it's quite an easy mistake to do these days.
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Old 30 October 2017, 17:02   #54
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AMMX instructions.
Real hardware implementation of CPU and SAGA chipset (hardware runs in parallel, emulators have to try and do this in software that can lead to glitches under heavy loads or when the underlying OS is busy)

I haven't used UAE4ARM so i don't know what the graphics and audio expansion options are like but SAGA extends the Amiga chipset to allow hardware banging hi-resolution 24bit graphics and soon 16 bit audio.
What good is AMMX and SAGA if there is no software written for it? In order for AMMX and SAGA to take hold, the community has to get behind it. With vampire using a proprietary soft core that uses further proprietary extensions (AMMX and SAGA), until other projects start using them, the chances of the community supporting those extensions are NIL.

Something like the MIST or MISTer project (using the AGA Minimig core) which is using the fully open source TG68 M68K soft core has a much better chance of developing into a standardized FPGA based amiga. You can set up your own FPGA Amiga using MISTer for under $200.
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Old 30 October 2017, 17:15   #55
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What good is AMMX and SAGA if there is no software written for it? In order for AMMX and SAGA to take hold, the community has to get behind it. With vampire using a proprietary soft core that uses further proprietary extensions (AMMX and SAGA), the chances of the community supporting those extensions are NIL.
Except there IS software being written for it, however that said you will likely be dismissive with amount that is specifically targeting it. Bottom line existing software does run better thanks to optimizations done in the processor design. Assembly level documentation is out there for the people that want to take advantage of AMMX. Gunnar has expressed interest in open sourcing at least the SAGA portion of the driver, when that is it'll be likely be closer to when the core is solidified.

Quote:
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Something like the MIST or MISTer project (using the AGA Minimig core) which is using the fully open source TG68 M68K soft core has a much better chance of developing into a standardized FPGA based amiga. You can set up your own FPGA Amiga using MISTer for under $200.
The MiniMig core hasn't had any traction in over 2 years, The MiST cost me more than $200 when I first bought it, and it's currently a paper weight in my house as it lacks many features like USB ethernet/Wifi support and the performance is frankly abysmal.
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Old 30 October 2017, 17:43   #56
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Ok, please wrap up the FPGA discussion, this thread was (and still should be) about a Mini-ITX board that takes the original custom chips.
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Old 30 October 2017, 20:30   #57
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From what i've read on Amy-ITX webpage it seems like guy will never make this board available to rest of the community cause based on what he said the only reason he made 25 of those boards is to pay for his board cost and he has no time to produce these.

Which is why i'm saying someone should make a clone of this board as it's his hobby and not intention to produce this. It's really d1ck move to tease all of you with this idea and never make it available. My prediction is unless it's cloned, this is already dead in the tracks.
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Old 30 October 2017, 20:37   #58
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You are confusing USA with China, but don't worry, it's quite an easy mistake to do these days.
Yes agreed but watch the Shark Tank and pretty much every product is knocked off by changing one thing it no longer is original design. In this board case you change CPU specs meaning 50-75mhz and no longer IP would apply since it's differently speced board. Maybe change tracks location and then it's entirely different board. I'm just saying. Terrible fire should be interested in this. Since to other guy this was only hobby and he has no intention of generating revenue making clone of this board should be easy peasy legally wise. We all are doing this for hobby and not profit anyway so i don't see a problem.
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Old 30 October 2017, 20:54   #59
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From what i've read on Amy-ITX webpage it seems like guy will never make this board available to rest of the community cause based on what he said the only reason he made 25 of those boards is to pay for his board cost and he has no time to produce these.
Reading comprehension doesn't seem to be your stronger points:

Quote:
If and when we decide to launch a larger production run we’ll announce it! Thank you for your understanding and support!
It pretty clearly states that he MIGHT do another run of the board, and who knows, maybe he'll open source the project. But that is his decision to make, and you suggesting that people should basically just rip off his design isn't helping.
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Old 30 October 2017, 21:05   #60
Rango
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Reading comprehension doesn't seem to be your stronger points:

It pretty clearly states that he MIGHT do another run of the board, and who knows, maybe he'll open source the project. But that is his decision to make, and you suggesting that people should basically just rip off his design isn't helping.
Your wishful thinking. To me it's clear what he said and did. He designed it for his own joy as clearly stating hobby. He made 25 of them to pay for his board design cost and stuck it to you guys by teasing you with his website.

Why design a website if you're going to make 25 of those boards. What a d..... Might or might not, rest is wishful thinking.

Not rip off. Someone suggested changing cpu specs to better the whole thing. You improve the product by changing few things and make it better and available to masses. This guy didn't satisfy neither.

There is houndreds of IBM clones aka PC clones being made now. You are using one right now, typing from one now. Is that rip off as well?

Last edited by Rango; 30 October 2017 at 21:17.
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