Introducing ACA 1221 Low Cost Accelerator At AmigaKit.com - Page 2

FOL · 21 July 2015, 14:53

Does it really matter. Its fast ram,

.

UberFreak · 21 July 2015, 15:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by kolla

I understand 9 (8+1), 17 (16+1) and 33 (32+1). 63 is the oddball - should it not be 65 (64+1)?

Educated guess: the accelerator has 64MB onboard, thus 63+1

Schoenfeld · 21 July 2015, 15:50

All memory configs have 1M in $00c0.0000 space, where the A500 has it's trapdoor memory. This is the memory chunk that makes some A500 software work (admitted, it's bad software that has memory addresses hardcoded, but the A500+trapdoor expansion was *very* popuar).

The 17M and 33M figures are also explained by that.

The 63M figure is a result of the reserved Maprom memory. 64M physical mem minus 1M reserved for Maprom is 63M fastmem total. The highest mem config has 62M fastmem in a single chunk.

Jens

shuttlepilot · 21 July 2015, 16:29

@Jens

These new cards were looking good until the "pay to unlock" aspect reared it's head ...

I understand what you are trying to do here, but if this becomes the norm in future products then you just lost a customer

Schoenfeld · 21 July 2015, 16:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by shuttlepilot

but if this becomes the norm in future products then you just lost a customer

...so you prefer to see different versions, causing even more cost? Look at RapidRoad: The X-Surf-100 version is not only cheaper by 30,- EUR because of a few cables. It's mainly the development that I've put into the clockport interface that you're paying the added EURs for.

With the ACA1221, you have the choice not to pay for certain features that also need to be accounted for in some way. If you think it's worth it, you pay the price. If you don't, you have a cheaper card that does everything you want it to.

The only reason to complain here would be to not accept paying for development cost. Is that what you're trying to tell me? Should I work for free?

Jens

amigakit.com · 21 July 2015, 16:54

I think most users will look at this A1200 accelerator and remark how good value it is for a brand new accelerator design with warranty, 9MB of 32-bit fast memory, a full 68020 CPU and 2x clockports.

If you go to Ebay, there are sellers on there selling old 1990's RAM cards without warranty for substantially more money.

It is amazing that in 2015 you can buy this type of product for the Amiga 1200.

shuttlepilot · 21 July 2015, 16:58

It's your product and you can sell it as you see fit. I stated my thoughts and there's really no need to jump down my throat because of it.

So uncalled for and unprofessional ...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schoenfeld

<snip>

The only reason to complain here would be to not accept paying for development cost. Is that what you're trying to tell me? Should I work for free?

Jens

roy bates · 21 July 2015, 17:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schoenfeld

...so you prefer to see different versions, causing even more cost? Look at RapidRoad: The X-Surf-100 version is not only cheaper by 30,- EUR because of a few cables. It's mainly the development that I've put into the clockport interface that you're paying the added EURs for.

With the ACA1221, you have the choice not to pay for certain features that also need to be accounted for in some way. If you think it's worth it, you pay the price. If you don't, you have a cheaper card that does everything you want it to.

The only reason to complain here would be to not accept paying for development cost. Is that what you're trying to tell me? Should I work for free?

Jens

i dont see any different versions? do you?

its a crippled card from the factory that needs a code to unlock the features it already has.

are you saying you dont make any money from this card as it is?

if so,why on earth are you selling it for that price,sounds stupid to me.

why not just unlock all the features and add the damn 40 euros your trying to get from the start and be done with it.

maybe you could enlighted us to this line of thought?
at the end of the day,people will like it or not...your taking a risk that you already know is risky,i dont see anywhere where your asking for an opinion on this pay to unlock feature...until now.

roy bates · 21 July 2015, 17:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by amigakit.com

I think most users will look at this A1200 accelerator and remark how good value it is for a brand new accelerator design with warranty, 9MB of 32-bit fast memory, a full 68020 CPU and 2x clockports.

If you go to Ebay, there are sellers on there selling old 1990's RAM cards without warranty for substantially more money.

It is amazing that in 2015 you can buy this type of product for the Amiga 1200.

comparing a new product to something we all know will have a highish price tag on ebay?

dont people get tired of this sort of comparison?
i know i do.

tom256 · 21 July 2015, 17:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by roy bates

i dont see any different versions? do you?

its a crippled card from the factory that needs a code to unlock the features it already has.

are you saying you dont make any money from this card as it is?

if so,why on earth are you selling it for that price,sounds stupid to me.

why not just unlock all the features and add the damn 40 euros your trying to get from the start and be done with it.

maybe you could enlighted us to this line of thought?
at the end of the day,people will like it or not...your taking a risk that you already know is risky,i dont see anywhere where your asking for an opinion on this pay to unlock feature...until now.

IMO price is really low, if You want any feature you just unlock this without changing card. So simply You can customize this card according to You needs. Yes new business model introduce some controversy, but still You now what You are paying for, so this is fair.
What is worry me is that we have only low performance card and there is no successor of ACA1230/56MHz. :/

fitzsteve · 21 July 2015, 18:02

It's certainly an interesting concept. I remember it was discussed or suggested some time ago so it's not out of the blue.

This trend with bolt on sales is normal everywhere now, think micro transactions in games to unlock content that is already there.

I know we're all stuck in the past, here using old computers but for a business to be sustainable they need to look to the future. As a product the base model is very cheap, for someone starting out. Then they can upgrade easily if they want more performance. Skip that jump from a ram board to accelerator most people make after a few months.

Arnie · 21 July 2015, 18:09

I agree, it's a very affordable card for a ram upgrade with the potential to add features that you either don't want or can't afford now.

In comparison look at Windows 8.1, doesn't come with WMC as standard, great if you don't want it and a cheap upgrade if you do.

modrobert · 21 July 2015, 18:52

Childhood memories, bare with me...

Back in 1976 I was just a kid who got a pong clone on my birthday, when I opened it up out of curiosity there was something interesting about the mode select switch. After closer inspection I noticed that the lever could be pulled two more steps when the case was off enabling a "duck hunt" game which was not possible to play with the case on because the panel didn't allow the switch to reach this position.

This is my earliest memory of "hacking" a video game, it was an awkward feeling to realize that the only thing separating the two versions of this pong clone was how far the CNC machine had cut that case slit. As you probably guessed I filed up the case slit enabling the switch to reach all game modes.

Discovering this and fixing the problem was very satisfying, actually more so than actually playing the silly pong game. I think many users here on EAB can relate to this feeling, both regarding cracking software and hacking hardware.

IMHO, the reason this type of licensing is a bad idea for ACA-1221 is because I want Jens to get paid for his work, rather than having some 'keygen' appear in the near future. At the same time it would be great fun to try and code such a tool...see my point?

roy bates · 21 July 2015, 18:52

i dont think its an interesting or good concept for retro hardware at all.

if all jens wants is an extra 40 euros to unlock then unlock the damn thing to start with and sell it...and be done with it and include the software its supposed to have.
but,the price is already out there with the hardware already on the card but crippled in a way that requires a code to unlock it...hmm
cnt really complain about not making money if you set the release price yourself can you? lol

i mean thats all jens wants isnt it? to sell his hardware...fair enough.
i wouldnt want to unlock something it already has,or am i missing something?

or maybe this a feeler for future exploits people will be looking forward to with exited breath?,maybe it is.
i mean,you accept it you get more? right?

is that a good thing? acceptance? time will tell.

Retrofan · 21 July 2015, 18:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by roy bates

...if so,why on earth are you selling it for that price,sounds stupid to me.

why not just unlock all the features and add the damn 40 euros your trying to get from the start and be done with it.

maybe you could enlighted us to this line of thought?
at the end of the day,people will like it or not...your taking a risk that you already know is risky,i dont see anywhere where your asking for an opinion on this pay to unlock feature...until now.

It's called marketing. If you want to buy it all just make that. If not you have the cheapest accelerator.

They know what they sell more and at what prices, you don't. That's called market research. It can generate also some publicity or just get more buyers.

ovale · 21 July 2015, 19:06

My understanding is that the HW on the board can work or not work at higher specs. The unlock code entitle you to a replacement in case it should not work on your card.
Is it correct?

roy bates · 21 July 2015, 19:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Retrofan

It's called marketing. If you want to buy it all just make that. If not you have the cheapest accelerator.

They know what they sell more and at what prices, you don't. That's called market studies. It can generate also some publicity or just get more buyers.

yep,if he knows this then there is no need to do it this way...as they will already sell.
its not like its a high end card that needs unlocks,not that any card would need it...

as for publicity...people will like it or not...its their choice not jens's,thats why there is an opinion its human nature.
saying something is good isnt good for everyone.

personally i would rather see the engineering head than the salesman head that jens shows.
i dont need the after sales gloss rubbish for something thats already there,just crippled so i cant use it unless i pay more for the privilege.
there is selling something and selling something.i would rather someone sell me something once for the thing i have.
you like it,then you like it...it wont mean i have i have to.

Arnie · 21 July 2015, 19:16

@ovale

No, not exactly. All the features are already on the card but are locked. To unlock the features that you want you buy an extra licence for those features.

Amiga1992 · 21 July 2015, 19:27

I don't knbow, for me, this kind of system puts me off.
The idea here is definitely to pay for R&D+development costs for any product put on sale, this is more reason why I STILL don't understand why products by Individual Computers can't be put on a crowdfunding system. I rather pay IN FULL previously to support the development of a device than this "pay as you go" system that makes not much sense to me.

Arnie · 21 July 2015, 19:27

Had a quick look on ebay and found 1 ram card for the A1200...

Marpet Developments M1207 Amiga 1200 A1200 8mb RAM/FPU/RTC BOARD CARD ADAPTER £140

The new ACA1221 £57, if you're looking for a ram upgrade then it's a no brainer really.

21 July 2015, 16:29	#24
shuttlepilot Vampire 68080 Owner Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Wherever I lay my hat, that's my home Posts: 222	@Jens These new cards were looking good until the "pay to unlock" aspect reared it's head ... I understand what you are trying to do here, but if this becomes the norm in future products then you just lost a customer Last edited by shuttlepilot; 21 July 2015 at 16:45.

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21 July 2015, 14:53	#21
FOL PSPUAE DEV Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Wales / UK Age: 45 Posts: 5,999	Does it really matter. Its fast ram, .

21 July 2015, 15:50	#23
Schoenfeld electricky. Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: out in the wild Posts: 1,256	All memory configs have 1M in $00c0.0000 space, where the A500 has it's trapdoor memory. This is the memory chunk that makes some A500 software work (admitted, it's bad software that has memory addresses hardcoded, but the A500+trapdoor expansion was very popuar). The 17M and 33M figures are also explained by that. The 63M figure is a result of the reserved Maprom memory. 64M physical mem minus 1M reserved for Maprom is 63M fastmem total. The highest mem config has 62M fastmem in a single chunk. Jens

21 July 2015, 16:54	#26
amigakit.com Registered User Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: www.amigakit.com Posts: 2,015	I think most users will look at this A1200 accelerator and remark how good value it is for a brand new accelerator design with warranty, 9MB of 32-bit fast memory, a full 68020 CPU and 2x clockports. If you go to Ebay, there are sellers on there selling old 1990's RAM cards without warranty for substantially more money. It is amazing that in 2015 you can buy this type of product for the Amiga 1200.

21 July 2015, 18:02	#31
fitzsteve Professional slacker! Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Kent, UK Age: 44 Posts: 6,683	It's certainly an interesting concept. I remember it was discussed or suggested some time ago so it's not out of the blue. This trend with bolt on sales is normal everywhere now, think micro transactions in games to unlock content that is already there. I know we're all stuck in the past, here using old computers but for a business to be sustainable they need to look to the future. As a product the base model is very cheap, for someone starting out. Then they can upgrade easily if they want more performance. Skip that jump from a ram board to accelerator most people make after a few months.

21 July 2015, 18:09	#32
Arnie R.I.P Smudge 18-08-16 Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Leicester/UK Age: 66 Posts: 3,968	I agree, it's a very affordable card for a ram upgrade with the potential to add features that you either don't want or can't afford now. In comparison look at Windows 8.1, doesn't come with WMC as standard, great if you don't want it and a cheap upgrade if you do.

21 July 2015, 18:52	#33
modrobert old bearded fool Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Bangkok Age: 56 Posts: 775	Childhood memories, bare with me... Back in 1976 I was just a kid who got a pong clone on my birthday, when I opened it up out of curiosity there was something interesting about the mode select switch. After closer inspection I noticed that the lever could be pulled two more steps when the case was off enabling a "duck hunt" game which was not possible to play with the case on because the panel didn't allow the switch to reach this position. This is my earliest memory of "hacking" a video game, it was an awkward feeling to realize that the only thing separating the two versions of this pong clone was how far the CNC machine had cut that case slit. As you probably guessed I filed up the case slit enabling the switch to reach all game modes. Discovering this and fixing the problem was very satisfying, actually more so than actually playing the silly pong game. I think many users here on EAB can relate to this feeling, both regarding cracking software and hacking hardware. IMHO, the reason this type of licensing is a bad idea for ACA-1221 is because I want Jens to get paid for his work, rather than having some 'keygen' appear in the near future. At the same time it would be great fun to try and code such a tool...see my point?

21 July 2015, 18:52	#34
roy bates Registered User Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: birmingham Age: 55 Posts: 2,827	i dont think its an interesting or good concept for retro hardware at all. if all jens wants is an extra 40 euros to unlock then unlock the damn thing to start with and sell it...and be done with it and include the software its supposed to have. but,the price is already out there with the hardware already on the card but crippled in a way that requires a code to unlock it...hmm cnt really complain about not making money if you set the release price yourself can you? lol i mean thats all jens wants isnt it? to sell his hardware...fair enough. i wouldnt want to unlock something it already has,or am i missing something? or maybe this a feeler for future exploits people will be looking forward to with exited breath?,maybe it is. i mean,you accept it you get more? right? is that a good thing? acceptance? time will tell.

21 July 2015, 19:06	#36
ovale Registered User Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: milan / italy Posts: 174	My understanding is that the HW on the board can work or not work at higher specs. The unlock code entitle you to a replacement in case it should not work on your card. Is it correct?

21 July 2015, 19:16	#38
Arnie R.I.P Smudge 18-08-16 Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Leicester/UK Age: 66 Posts: 3,968	@ovale No, not exactly. All the features are already on the card but are locked. To unlock the features that you want you buy an extra licence for those features.

21 July 2015, 19:27	#39
Amiga1992 Registered User Join Date: May 2001 Location: ? Posts: 19,645	I don't knbow, for me, this kind of system puts me off. The idea here is definitely to pay for R&D+development costs for any product put on sale, this is more reason why I STILL don't understand why products by Individual Computers can't be put on a crowdfunding system. I rather pay IN FULL previously to support the development of a device than this "pay as you go" system that makes not much sense to me.

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