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Old 10 August 2018, 03:42   #21
Anachronist
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Oh this looks so cool. I could use this to offer classic DOS doors on my BBS while keeping it on original hardware

aBSiNTHE BBS | absinthebbs.net port 1940
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Old 10 August 2018, 09:18   #22
Toni Wilen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by superfrog View Post
When I try to boot up with same config, but with A2286 instead, it just crash dumps shortly after booting the BB Install floppy. Crash happens with speaker enabled or not. I've attached 2 config files and the crash dump file.
Dump files are only useful when using official betas (which don't exist yet). I can't duplicate any crashes but because main config is disk based, I can't duplicate it exactly.

I also tried "A2088-2286 PC Bridgeboard Install Disk v2.0 (1989)(Commodore)(A2000)[!].adf" and no crash. (and no boot because my CMOS file has floppy set to 80 tracks but your config has 40. Two beeps: "Base memory configuration error." and "Floppy 0 configuration error."). You need to attach your cmos (nvr) file too. And your dos floppy if crash happens only if dos floppy is inserted.

Quote:
Originally Posted by superfrog View Post
What test environment/config did you use for testing PC speaker Toni? I figured using A2088/A2286 with just BB Install floppy and a DOS boot floppy and testing the bell would be the absolute simplest test case scenario.
A2286 and A2386 because they are guaranteed to beep before it starts booting. I am not sure what XT bridgeboards do and/or if they have standard speaker logic.

AT = keyboard controller handles speaker enable. (all kinds of random stuff is controlled by keyboard controller mcu in AT..)
XT = IO chip pin.

Last edited by Toni Wilen; 10 August 2018 at 12:13.
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Old 10 August 2018, 16:32   #23
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In principle the PC Speaker support seems to work (though not stable).
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File Type: uae A2286 VGA IDE Primary HDD PC Speaker.uae (13.6 KB, 36 views)
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Old 10 August 2018, 16:42   #24
Toni Wilen
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If you mean sound quality/stability: it is normal, there is nothing really to sync buffer state and it is mixed and resampled twice, first PCem own internal mixing, then PCem output to Paula stream mixing.

I need more test cases to improve it:

- program that plays speaker "music"
- program that plays OPL FM synthesis
- program that plays SB 8-bit samples
- program that plays SB 16-bit samples

EDIT: Windows compatibility would be also interesting to see. It should work now, at least in theory.
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Old 10 August 2018, 19:02   #25
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Okay thanks for the tips! I'll do more testing. Sorry, it's been a while now since I really did much with WinUAE BB emulation. Not since you first implemented it back around versions 3.2-3.6-ish. My memory of those tests doesn't serve me so well at this point

Could be that XT-era PC speaker on BB just didn't work that well in real life and nobody cared enough to use it and/or complain about it if it sucked especially if you had to go out and find and spend extra $$ to get one in the first place. Admittedly PC speaker just plain sucks even when it works well so.....

On a positive note, the overall speed and "feel" of the emulation is much more accurate and life-like due to the timing and CPU being much closer to real hardware. It was way too fast before to be realistic.

Last edited by superfrog; 10 August 2018 at 19:30.
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Old 10 August 2018, 19:36   #26
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As for a text-based program that plays music through PC speaker, off-hand the first thing that comes to mind is programs written in BASIC, since that I think was the most common way people attempted to play "music" thru the PC speaker in that era. Certainly that was true for me personally. Oh the nostalgia... Would that suffice for testing purposes?

If we really want to push things to the outer limits, I believe there were even a couple of DOS programs that at least claimed to play sampled sound like WAV thru PC speaker, although I'm sure the results were scratchy at best. But still could be interesting. I'll try to scrounge some of that stuff up and make up a test floppy or small HD image we can use to test with.

Last edited by superfrog; 10 August 2018 at 19:43.
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Old 11 August 2018, 01:02   #27
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Okay one problem I uncovered is that the crash/dump was caused by empty 2286 nvr file. I didn't have a valid nvr so I tried to create one from scratch. The 2018.08.09 Beta seems to not like the empty nvr, and so crashes right after the x86 side tries to boot. I used WinUAE 4.0.1 to create a valid nvr and then attached that nvr in 4.1.0 Beta. The BB Install disk booted fine on 4.1.0 Beta with nvr initialized in stable. However, once I open PC Mono window, I get a blank blue screen with flashing cursor in upper left corner, and nothing else. So something is still not working with my config.

I am using a minimal config that I created from scratch using 2018.08.09 Beta GUI. For the sake of simplicity, I am starting out with empty config folder, no backup or cached configs. I use no Amiga or x86 hardfile, no x86 VGA, just minimum config. I am not even enabling PC Speaker at this point, just trying to get the basic DOS to boot. For now, I didn't even attach a DOS boot floppy since even the BIOS screen won't come up and say there is no boot disk. I've attached my config file here.

When I switch to A2088 card, it boots DOS fine using otherwise exact same config.

Starting WinUAE with empty config, I make only the following changes, then boot up:

Hardware

CPU and FPU: No changes
Chipset: Chipset Extra A2000
Adv. Chipset: No Changes
ROM: Main ROM File KS ROM v1.3 (A500,A1000,A2000) rev 34.5 (256k) [315093-02], Flash RAM a2286.nvr (Created by WinUAE 4.0.1)
Floppy Drives: DF0, A2088-2286 PC Bridgeboard Install Disk v2.0 (1989)(Commodore)(A2000)[!].adf, DF2 PC Bridge (80), No floppy image attached
CD & Hard Drives: No Changes
Expansions: x86 Bridgeboards/A2286 (Commodore), A2286 BIOS 4.2 (32k) [380682-04/380683-04] ROM
RTG Board: No Changes

Host

No Changes
Attached Files
File Type: uae A2000 1.3 A2286.uae (12.0 KB, 34 views)
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Old 11 August 2018, 02:03   #28
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UPDATE: I tried opening PC Color window using PC Install 2.0 boot disk, and got silent lock-up with no mouse movement, but no error. Then I tried opening PC Color window using BB software from A2386 PC Bridgeboard Install Disk (1992)(Commodore)(A2000-A3000) disk (installed on HD in WB2.1 with 2.04 ROM because this install disk is not self-booting like older versions and must be installed before it can be used.) PC Color window opens and BIOS boot screen displays with error saying CMOS not configured properly. PC Color worked even though default video in UAE config is set to Monochrome. So it seems likely that if PC Color program from 2.0 A2088/2086 BB Install disk didn't crash, it would probably at least display BIOS boot screen.

However, when I press Ctrl-Alt-Esc to go into CMOS setup, something is funky with keyboard input. If I try to use up/down arrow keys to navigate settings, or left/right keys to change options, it doesn't work. Up/down arrows insert numbers into setting field, right/left does nothing (should cycle through available settings.) Esc key works to abort setup, but End (3 on numeric keypad, not regular End key, which doesn't seem to work even in working BB environment) does not save settings as expected.

If I set default video to Color in UAE config, I get same results with both versions of BB software.

That's as far as I got with it. Hope that's enough to go on to fix a few things. Let me know if you need any other info. Thanks Toni!

Last edited by superfrog; 11 August 2018 at 02:17.
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Old 11 August 2018, 03:01   #29
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UPDATE: If I hold down the shift key, then the arrow keys and end key work as expected in the CMOS setup. So that's a workaround, but something in the keyboard input seems to still be not quite right with the arrow keys and numeric keypad. Once DOS is booted, regular alphanumeric input works normally. Arrow keys and numeric keypad still don't work as expected, however.

PC Speaker seems to work OK on A2286, at least bell. And there is no keyboard sound click interference.

Last edited by superfrog; 11 August 2018 at 04:03.
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Old 11 August 2018, 04:20   #30
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Compressed summary of above ramblings:

2018.08.09 Beta problems:

A2286 crashes with dump if empty nvr file attached. Works with nvr file created with WinUAE 4.0.1. So there's a problem with initializing a new nvr file with A2286.

PC Mono screen on A2286 opens up blank with flashing cursor with 2.0 and A2386 BB software. PC Color crashes with BB 2.0 software. PC Color works with A2386 software with BB set to monochrome mode.

Arrow keys and numeric keypad in A2286 only work as expected with shift key held down. Without shift key held down, arrow keys and keypad keys type numbers or don't do anything at all.
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Old 11 August 2018, 06:12   #31
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Ok here's a test floppy I made for testing the PC speaker. It's a 360k MS-DOS 3.3 boot floppy with GW-BASIC and some old BASIC demo programs that I swiped off a very old 1.0-era DOS disk. Many of the programs play music and make sound effects. In particular, MUSIC.BAS plays a variety of tunes and I verified that it works well, after getting A2286 running with aforementioned workarounds. Some of these programs also feature some primitive CGA graphics so they could be useful for testing legacy pre-VGA video. One thing I noticed is that 40 track disk images don't boot with an 80 track drive, so make sure you are using a 40 track drive to use this floppy. Boot to DOS prompt, run GWBASIC, then load"<program name> like load"music, then type run. Have fun!

(Hopefully this software is old enough that I am not violating policy by posting it here. It's all stuff that can be downloaded from the Internet Archive)
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File Type: 7z pc_speaker_test.7z (172.0 KB, 37 views)
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Old 11 August 2018, 07:54   #32
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The sound of the PC Speaker (driver) is horrible on Windows 3.11 in safe mode.
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Old 11 August 2018, 08:52   #33
Toni Wilen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by superfrog View Post
Compressed summary of above ramblings:
Confirmed NOT happening with pre-PCem version? This is very important! Also I really recommend properly installing bridgeboard software. It is not meant to be used from install disk.

EDIT2: Did you actually use bridgeboard previously? Using this version to learn it is bad idea and it will annoy me if something you think something is a bug or not working but is actually working as designed.. This is why comparing with previous official version is very very important.

EDIT: Do you really have latest winuae.7z? Date is too old.

Last edited by Toni Wilen; 11 August 2018 at 09:04.
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Old 11 August 2018, 09:50   #34
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It seems the new x86 Bridgeboard update (PCem core) don't like the cooperation with the XDIDE Universal BIOS HD.
No problems with the x86 Bridgeboard without the PCem parts.
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File Type: uae A2286 VGA Universal HDD.uae (13.7 KB, 35 views)
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Old 11 August 2018, 10:59   #35
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I with x86 Bridgeboard "PCem core" i have an error on the recognition of the floppy, everything works fine with previous versions of WinUAE, what should I add to the configuration of WinUAE "PCem core"?

Last edited by AMIGASYSTEM; 11 August 2018 at 12:22.
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Old 11 August 2018, 11:27   #36
Toni Wilen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by superfrog View Post
Ok here's a test floppy I made for testing the PC speaker. It's a 360k MS-DOS 3.3 boot floppy with GW-BASIC and some old BASIC demo programs that I swiped off a very old 1.0-era DOS disk. Many of the programs play music and make sound effects. In particular, MUSIC.BAS plays a variety of tunes and I verified that it works well, after getting A2286 running with aforementioned workarounds. Some of these programs also feature some primitive CGA graphics so they could be useful for testing legacy pre-VGA video. One thing I noticed is that 40 track disk images don't boot with an 80 track drive, so make sure you are using a 40 track drive to use this floppy. Boot to DOS prompt, run GWBASIC, then load"<program name> like load"music, then type run. Have fun!
Thanks. These seem to work fine, no extra pops or glitches.

40 track disk = 5.25". 80 track = 3.5". They are obviously not physically compatible and BIOS knows it.
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Old 11 August 2018, 11:30   #37
Toni Wilen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AMIGASYSTEM View Post
I with x86 Bridgeboard "PCem core" i have an error on the recognition of the floppy, everything works fine with previous versions of WinUAE, what should I add to the configuration of WinUAE "PCem core"?
Config and BIOS setup screenshot please.
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Old 11 August 2018, 11:37   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toni Wilen View Post

40 track disk = 5.25". 80 track = 3.5". They are obviously not physically compatible and BIOS knows it.

All 3.5" disks are 80 track. 5.25" disks come in 40 track (low density 360k) and 80 track (high density 1.2MB) formats. A 40 track 5.25" drive can only read and write 40 track media, 80 track 5.25" drive can read and write both 40 and 80 track media. PC BIOS must be set for proper drive size and density in any case.
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Old 11 August 2018, 11:49   #39
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@Toni

Ok Toni found the problem, as soon as i deactivated XTIDE Universal Bios, Floppy (1.44) now works (with previous WinUAE it works well). PC Speaker works perfectly, the Bip is clear


@
superfrog
You really give me the command to give on GWBASIC, the translation does not help
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Old 11 August 2018, 11:50   #40
Toni Wilen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by superfrog View Post
All 3.5" disks are 80 track. 5.25" disks come in 40 track (low density 360k) and 80 track (high density 1.2MB) formats. A 40 track 5.25" drive can only read and write 40 track media, 80 track 5.25" drive can read and write both 40 and 80 track media. PC BIOS must be set for proper drive size and density in any case.
I checked. This is actually unimplemented feature because I didn't want to add 3rd floppy drive type. 5.25" 40 track only (old BIOS that does not know that 80 track exist and can read 40 track by double stepping), 5.25" 80 track (single step = 80, double step = 40), 3.5" 80 track.
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